Balancing 8" rims and tires
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Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:14 pm quote
Since I'm going to have a new front end, and shocks, I figured it'd be a good thing to give the rims and tires a balance.

I'd love to do this on a static tire balancer but of course the 4 bolt rim hole is too big for the balancing cones.

I could rig up the old front end with an old axle, but I'd rather use some sort of adapter for the static balancer.

Has anybody done this or have any ideas? Thanks!

received_209019600286669.jpeg
How to center this between the cones?

Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125 + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7606
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:53 pm quote
I think you might be able to use the rear hub depending on how small your cones go. I have one I can pull from a motor, but the spline hole is same on most all rear hubs I think. How "permanently" is the rear hub installed on your AllState? Don't forget that it will bleed oil unless you tilt right and block it so it won't.

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I checked one and seems doable, but needed & didn't have impact gun handy to look on the other side

IMG_20200213_174956306.jpg
but it should look a lot like the backside of this Super hub,
except has a separate brake drum but don't take that off unless you have to

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1564
Location: Staten Island, NY
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:17 pm quote
what do you use for balancer? Harbor Freight balancer? I have thought about trying to do this, but never have. You trying to do it to 8" wheels is motivation to actually accomplish this.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:34 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
what do you use for balancer? Harbor Freight balancer? I have thought about trying to do this, but never have. You trying to do it to 8" wheels is motivation to actually accomplish this.
Hey Swiss. I bought this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PT9D8KJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It was a big debate (most everything is when I spend $$) but my wife ordered it and said that's what I used the $50 gift card I got from her parents! Score!

It's got a built in level, and rubber mounted feet to make sure it's leveled. I had to lube up the bearings with Triflow to make them into spinners - well, not quite that good, but they were fairly stiff when I got it.

I figured I could do Ruby's 10" rims, then tires, and also the 8" rim/tire combo.

received_327919234831349.jpeg
This should do the trick!

Hooked
1963 Allstate, 2005 Vespa PX150, 2001 Harley 95 ci Dyna
Joined: 06 May 2016
Posts: 300
Location: Central Ohio
Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:10 pm quote
I have owned 8 inch Vespas since the mid 1950s and recently have a 10 inch Vespa. Am I missing something here? I have never balanced my wheels. I admit I dont go faster than 55 mph on the Vespas. My Harley is another story and I do have its wheels balanced when a new tire is installed.
Addicted
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 871
Location: california
Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:28 pm quote
Love this.
Suspect you cant identify the need until you do it.
But subtle smoothness will be heroin - hard to ride one without after you do it.
Just my guess.
Will be interested to see.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:30 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Love this.
Suspect you cant identify the need until you do it.
But subtle smoothness will be heroin - hard to ride one without after you do it.
Just my guess.
Will be interested to see.
This is what I'm suspecting - It's going to smooth out the ride. But we'll see. It may just be an act in futileness, but I figure any object spinning at the rate a tire does is going to be effected by it's balance.

I must not have enough to work on! Ha! I'll report back on this thread when I make this happen. I can't wait to balance the P200's rims and wheels, and see what the effect is when I hit 65.

I will probably use my back hub for the 8" tires, like Voodoo suggested, to make sure the hub actually works in the balancer before I spend my hard earned $$ on a hub.

Oh man, now I'm getting excited to do this!
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5040
Location: So Cal
Thu Feb 13, 2020 8:42 pm quote
I smell a business opportunity.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125 + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7606
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:36 pm quote
You made me go look and I found this one for about the same money, but you can check out a longer shaft for runout if you need to with their pass thru design.


I'd consider adding a simple indicator mount like this so I can also check wheels for runout and tires for true if I was feeling real fussy. Adding live centers like this one also has(@almost twice the price) wouldn't be too hard either.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:41 pm quote
Yes, I looked at this model but figured I wasn't building spoked rims, so I'd save the few bucks. But you are right, it'd be easy enough to add another reference point on my stand to check true and sidesway. Thanks for posting Brother T!

BTW, ScootNewB (my buddy Chris) and I will be balancing a bunch of tires on our scoots at the end of the month.
Addicted
2010 gts 300 super. 09 MP3 500 lite
Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 526
Location: tampa
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:58 am quote
no point to balancing an 8 inch tire.

I dont balance 12 in tires. it does nothing.

14 inch can use it. but extra smoothness only felt at 50mph or faster.
Enthusiast
Joined: 05 Feb 2018
Posts: 50

Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:28 am quote
[quote="jerryd"]no point to balancing an 8 inch tire.

Dont know about that. Doing the tire and rim (hub as well?) will definitely smooth things out. Wish i had tried this on my P. Had weird vibrations for a long time. Ended up being the rims which were og and looked great, but must have been out by miles. I guess 40 years does stuff. Qas check would have stopped a whole lot of head scratching.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1418
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:52 am quote
jerryd wrote:
no point to balancing an 8 inch tire.

I dont balance 12 in tires. it does nothing.

14 inch can use it. but extra smoothness only felt at 50mph or faster.
Hey Jerry - thanks for your experience! I've never balanced 10" or 8" tires, rims, or hubs either. BUT, I've done 12" and I tried going over 30mph without balancing the 12" on my old GTS250 and there was no way you could've rode it over 30, that's how bad the tires needed to be balanced.

And I've had a number of 10" tire/rim/hubs that in retrospect, probably would have benefited greatly from a little balance.

Come to think of it, I could use a little balance too. Ha!
Hooked
2001 LML 150
Joined: 16 Jul 2017
Posts: 350
Location: Melb, Aus
Fri Feb 14, 2020 12:29 pm quote
Q.. This is an excellent idea and makes lots of sense. I spoke to a vespa mechanic last year who told me he's been balancing his wheels for years and enjoys the much smoother ride he's getting. The conversation started when I mentioned I'd had a flywheel balanced...

Im sure there'll be more than a few of us interested to hear how it turns out..
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1564
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:47 pm quote
Apparently Harbor Freight no longer sells the similar style wheel balancer to the one you got. I was gonna pick it up in person today to get it quicker, but looks like I'll be getting it online from one of your links posted in thread!
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2079

Fri Feb 14, 2020 4:45 pm quote
Strangely enough, both these rims felt fine at 55mph.

8AAE4EC4-2566-4DC6-8DEB-E7286EC5CC72.jpeg

Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125 + projects
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7606
Location: seattle/athens
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:19 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
Apparently Harbor Freight no longer sells the similar style wheel balancer to the one you got. I was gonna pick it up in person today to get it quicker, but looks like I'll be getting it online from one of your links posted in thread!
Here's the live center I was considering on Amazon. Two at only $3.70 each plus some fiddling around w/ a piece of 3/4 fine threaded rod, eight nuts, a welder and half hour on a lathe to make a couple of adapters?

If I do all that, I'll probably also weld the thing together and add some bracing to stiffen it up. But that's not likely needed just to wheel balance w/ no side loading.



I can replace this cobbled up thing:



Hmmm.... or I could just get this one for a little more and ready to go, I dunno... Hmmmm indeed.


Last edited by V oodoo on Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 218
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Molto Verboso
1980 P125X, 1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 1564
Location: Staten Island, NY
Fri Feb 14, 2020 5:24 pm quote
V oodoo wrote:
swiss1939 wrote:
Apparently Harbor Freight no longer sells the similar style wheel balancer to the one you got. I was gonna pick it up in person today to get it quicker, but looks like I'll be getting it online from one of your links posted in thread!
Here's the live center I was considering on Amazon. Two at only $3.70 each plus some fiddling around w/ a piece of 3/4 fine threaded rod, eight nuts, a welder and half hour on a lathe to make a couple of adapters?

If I do all that, I'll probably also weld the thing together and add some bracing to stiffen it up. But that's not likely needed just to wheel balance w/ no side loading.



I can replace this cobbled up thing:



Hmmm.... or I could just get this one for a little more and ready to go, I dunno... Hmmmm indeed.
Hey V oodoo.. thats awesome! Unfortunately I do not have a welder and have no space for one currently. Some day I will get one, but not right now. So most likely will purchase one of these cheap ones off amazon.

Christopher, the second one was the one I went to Harbor Freight today to pick up, and they don't sell it in my local store. Let me know if you find one. If I'm gonna pay shipping, I'll buy from amazon instead of HF.
Enthusiast
1965 VBB/2005 Stella
Joined: 16 May 2016
Posts: 77
Location: Leetonia, ohio
Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:52 pm quote
Ill throw my hat in the ring on the side of balancing 8 or even 10 wheels as unnecessary. I have ridden Vespa for more years than I can remember and have never given balancing the tires/wheels a thought. I suppose you could go all scientific and split hairs here but its not for me. Never had the need. Just sayin.
Hooked
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 218
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:38 am quote
I have a 50cc scooter and a tire is out of balance I can tell. I want to pull the wheels and check it this summer. I think it depends on how far out you are and your maximum speed. Not really a one size fits all situatio, not going to hurt to do it.
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