Rebuilding a Spermy Vespa
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2399
Location: London UK
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:04 pm quote
New piston alone won't fix that. Can get some really cheap kits, which is better than messing about with rebores. New stock complete is 195 euros.
Someone here might have a cylinder and piston they don't want. Sure there are many easy options.
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2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7596
Location: San Francisco
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:21 pm quote
new cylinder with Grand-Sport piston would be my go to. When I got the Rally I ordered one just to have on the shelf in case I ever needed it.

Stock but with a better quality piston.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/products/cylinder+kit+serie+pro+200+cc+_41470700
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P125X, P200E
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Location: Fresno, CA
Tue Jun 09, 2020 9:57 pm quote
Crap... it looks like I'm going to be shopping for a new (or used) top end! Damn!
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P125X, P200E
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Location: Fresno, CA
Sat Jun 13, 2020 9:08 am quote
Someplace I saw a post on the default mixture screw settings for a 24/24 carb but I can't find it. As I recall, if the screw has coarse threads the default setting was one thing (1.5 turns?) but if the screw has fine threads the default setting was something else (2.5 turns?)

Can someone clarify this for me please?
Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1168
Location: California
Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:12 am quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
Someplace I saw a post on the default mixture screw settings for a 24/24 carb but I can't find it. As I recall, if the screw has coarse threads the default setting was one thing (1.5 turns?) but if the screw has fine threads the default setting was something else (2.5 turns?)

Can someone clarify this for me please?
this is my understanding as well
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P125X, P200E
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Location: Fresno, CA
Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:30 pm quote
Is the area of the the case where the crankshaft turns supposed to be smooth? I've just noticed that that track is pitted on Spermy. Is that going to be a problem?

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P125X, P200E
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Location: Fresno, CA
Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:48 pm quote
Has the rubber for the P200 cowls changed over the years? I think I read someplace that the new cowl rubber that is being sold is different from the original and that it doesn't fit as well.

I just ordered new cowl rubber for and it looks quite a bit different from the original although I don't know if that is because the original has been stretched out of shape over the last 40 years or not.

In each pic, the original cowl rubber is on the left and the replacement is on the right. Any comments?

IMG_6470.jpg

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2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
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Location: San Francisco
Sun Jun 28, 2020 1:40 pm quote
the cowls for the P have a bit of a lip to help hold the rubber on. the earlier cowls did not. the replacement rubber you got if for the pre-P

The casting around the crank is fine. it's just the as cast surface.
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1508
Location: Siam
Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:22 am quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
Has the rubber for the P200 cowls changed over the years? I think I read someplace that the new cowl rubber that is being sold is different from the original and that it doesn't fit as well.

I just ordered new cowl rubber for and it looks quite a bit different from the original although I don't know if that is because the original has been stretched out of shape over the last 40 years or not.

In each pic, the original cowl rubber is on the left and the replacement is on the right. Any comments?
I went through this nonsense and just decided to keep the original, old, cracked rubber strips. A little Krazy glue and it's all sorted.
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P125X, P200E
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Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:29 pm quote
Yes nomad, that's what I wound up doing. I washed the old rubber and treated it with Armorall and bolted it on to the cowl using a couple of screw posts. Looks fine.

IMG_6483.jpg

IMG_6484.jpg

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P125X, P200E
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Location: Fresno, CA
Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:45 pm quote
I replaced the main seal and when it came time to reinstall the crank, I followed Robots procedure,
(at 1:09:30) but could not pull it all the way in using my old (weak) impact wrench.

I want to finish installing it manually but I haven't been able to borrow the crank tool, and I don't want to buy one for just one use. I figure I can continue following Robot's procedure and use the clutch as the spacer but substitute a socket wrench, or a breaker bar, (along with Brute Strength & Ignorance) for the impact wrench.

Is there a better way? Some time ago I saw a video on pulling in the crank without the crank tool but I haven't been able to find it again. It was in (I think) German.

I"d appreciate any suggestions.

IMG_6512.jpg

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P125X, P200E
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Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:35 pm quote
Son of a bitch!

Iíve had to give up on pulling the crank into position. I just donít have the tools or the knowledge to do it. Tomorrow Iím taking it to a friend, who has the tools, and he will do it for me but first I have to pull the engine to take it over to him and that is what Iíve been trying to avoid from the beginning! Iíve had to cut the rear brake cable and Iíve never replaced one before and I hear it can be tough to do.

I found this video
but can anyone give me a link to other information on replacing a rear brake cable on a P200?

What makes all this even more fun is that my lift has crapped out and I am having to work at ground level. Harbor Freight Lift Failure Kinda defeats the purpose of buying the lift in the first place!

Son of a bitch!

(Yes, Iím venting.)
Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1168
Location: California
Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:27 pm quote
Be careful fatbear and donít over exert yourself like I did a few weeks ago yanking my engine still recovering.
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P125X, P200E
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Location: Fresno, CA
Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:53 am quote
Actually Hibbert, the engine came out more easily than expected... and I didn't hurt myself (this time). I agree... doing this kind of work at 75 is a lot different from doing it at 25. It's just too damned hard sometimes to bend over to reach something... and then getting up off the floor afterwards is a son of a bitch. That's why my next step will be to replace the cylinder on my dead Harbor Freight lift so that I can work on Spermy at a comfortable height again.

I took the engine over to a buddy this morning and he pulled the crank into position... after clearing the woodruff key that I had jammed in place. Next I'll reinstall the engine so that I can roll Spermy off the lift and replace that bad cylinder. I was hoping I could rebuild it but I understand that getting the parts is nearly impossible. Besides, I don't know how the HF cylinder is built.
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P125X, P200E
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Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:51 pm quote
Spermy came with the stock P200 exhaust and I'm planning to move the SIP Road 1 from my other scooter to Spermy but I'm wondering if I should go for the Road 2. Is there a significant difference between the SIP Road 1 and the SIP Road 2? Would I notice the difference in performance?

I have time to think it over as all my work on Spermy is on hold until the new Harbor Freight Lift cylinder arrives. That's going to take 3-4 weeks or 5-6 weeks, depending on who you talk to.
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:57 pm quote
If you're going to buy a new exhaust, get the Polini BOX. Better in everything...
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P125X, P200E
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Location: Fresno, CA
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:46 am quote
Thank you SaFiS, I will look into the Box but as part of my research, I'd still like to know if the SIP Road 2 is a significant improvement over the SIP Road 1 that I have now. Is it worthwhile to upgrade or should I just keep using the Road 1.

I'd appreciate comments from anyone who had made that change.
Hooked
1972 Vespa GTR, 1963 Lambretta LI 125
Joined: 05 Nov 2018
Posts: 131
Location: Halifax, England
Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:43 pm quote
Take a look here.

https://www.scootering.com/the-vespa-big-box-exhaust-test/

It might help you out in your exhaust research.
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
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Location: Veria, Greece
Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:29 pm quote
Hereís a more updated test...

https://scooterlab.uk/vespa-big-box-exhaust-shootout-feature-2/
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P125X, P200E
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
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Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:34 pm quote
I'm wondering if I should set the timing at the default 23 degrees BTDC. I'm using the stock cylinder and head but the piston has been ported a bit and I will be using a SIP Road 1 exhaust. Should I advance or retard the timing with this setup? By how much?

2020-09-01 21.21.54.jpg

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P125X, P200E
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Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:58 pm quote
Crap! I almost had it.

After numerous delays I finally got Spermy running again but while tweaking the carb, I noticed that the throttle cable is frayed and coming apart. (I know how that happened but I donít want to talk about it.) Iíve never replaced a throttle cable but from what Iíve been able to find, it looks like itís going to be a son of a bitch to do. Iíve found several postings here on the forum but if anyone can refer me to a link explaining in detail how to make the replacement, Iíd sure appreciate it.

From whatí Iíve seen, it looks like taping the old outer/inner to the new outer/inner and then pushing seems to be the most popular method but Iíve had trouble doing that in the past so Iíd appreciate any other suggestions.

Some guys say to start at the headset and push down and some guys say to start at the carb and push up. Any thoughts?

It looks like the inner/outer have to be installed as a set because there is a top hat at one end and a knob at the other, however, I bought a complete cable set a while ago and the throttle inner came with only the knob at the carb endÖ no high hat. Am I missing something?

Am I going to have to remove the throttle tube in order to thread the new cable? That looks like itís going to be a job. Is there link to something showing how that is done?
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1711
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Sep 12, 2020 4:24 pm quote
Hey LuckyBear!

There is a little cylinder with a screw in the end of it to tighten on the throttle end of the cable to lock it in place. A throttle cable pinch bolt; http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Cable-Bits/TH-PB

I don't have a vid on how to replace the outer, but it goes like this.

- I start at the back end and work towards the headset. No reason really, just feels easier.
- Remove the old throttle inner
- use a super long inner cable, like a cable for a tandem bicycle
- remove the new inner cable out of the new outer cable
- thread the tandem inner cable into the new outer cable
- now thread the tandem cable into the old outer cable from the back (or top)
- So the trick is to pull the end of the tandem cable and slide the old outer cable housing out while pulling/pushing the new cable housing into place.
- Once the outer cable is in place, remove the tandem cable
- Put in the new inner cable, from the back
- add the new pinch bolt thingy to the throttle end of the cable and adjust accordingly.
- now to get really fancy, you could add some solder to the end of the cable where you are going to cut it so the pinch bolt bites into the solder. Not too much though or it won't roll up and be flexible.
- Done!

I hope this helps!

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Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2263

Sun Sep 13, 2020 5:53 am quote
I had to do the same, it is a real bugger. I think I simply taped the two cables together first and then the two outers together. I think I taped the two cables because the houseing are a wider diameter and so you have the two cables working together and then taping the housing it covered the taped cables and gave extra strength for pulling, I also greased up the cable outers, I did alot of pushing and pulling to make a good smooth route for the cables to move along on, I went from the bottom only because the toughest obstacle was going to be at the inner rear brake peg.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1711
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:15 am quote
I was also thinking of something similar Lynn.

If you don't want to remove an end, maybe you can just remove the inner of the existing cable, then use heat shrink tubing in a couple layers to "join" the cables together, then grease up the new outer and slowly push and pull it in and out the top. I'd think Heat shrink tubing would hold it together tight enough to work it through the tunnel.

Take pics! Good luck!
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Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:46 pm quote
Thanks Lynnb and Qascooter. It looks like Iíll be taping the two outers together but do you guys tape them end-to- end or overlapping? Iím thinking about taping the two outers end-to-end with one layer of electrical tape and then laying a 6 or 8 inch piece of old cable over the joint and then holding it in place with a second layer of tape. Iím thinking that will give the joint extra strength. What do you think?
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P125X, P200E
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Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:49 pm quote
Where am I going wrong?

Hereís how Iím planning to replace my throttle cable using the inner/outer set with the knob at the carb end and the top hat at the headset end. Iím planning to work from the top down since it will be easier to move the small knob through the body than the top hat.

Hereís the planÖ Is there something more I should doÖ something I shouldnít do?

1. Remove the nylon pulley that holds the top end of throttle cable.
2. Remove throttle return spring and slide throttle tube back out of the way.
3. Cut the old inner and slide it several inches back into the old outer.
4. Cut the cap off the old outer and force the opening wide enough for the knob end of the new inner to fit and then push that knob as far down the old outer as possible. If I canít open up the end of the old outer, I might be able to split it so I can insert the knob. (That might not work.)
5. Tape the old and new cables together end-to-end using electrical tape and add a 6 inch piece of old cable under a second layer of tape and over the junction as added strength.
6. Remove the gas tank.
7. Should I remove the horncast?
8. Grease the hell out of everything and push/pull the cable through.

Any comments?
Hooked
various
Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 102
Location: San Anselmo
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:24 pm quote
Take the inners out of both. Go buy 6ft of 1/16Ē cable and slide it through both. Clamp on the upper end of the new housing and pull it through. The tape thing will fail on you 9 times out of ten. Also, itís a P! Pull the horn cast and and you can see most of what you need to. Pretty sure you need to pull the tank to get it past the plastic drip tray in the frame
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1711
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:33 pm quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
5. Tape the old and new cables together end-to-end using electrical tape and add a 6 inch piece of old cable under a second layer of tape and over the junction as added strength.
Any comments?
Yes, I wouldn't trust electrical tape. I'd use heat shrink tubing, end to end, then put another layer of heat shrink tubing. That'll be much stronger than electrical tape, then grease the crap out of it and push/pull and finesse those cables through... My 2 cents worth...
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2263

Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:01 pm quote
If you do the way I said you should have to pull the tank , although itís not a bad idea. I think a bit of both our ideas would work , heat shrink the two cable ends and heat shrink the metal ends, tape them pulling the tape so itís stretching as you wrap, go from within 1Ē of the end of one outer casing and tape across the heat shrinked cable ends and finish by overlapping the opposite end of the outer casing , the metal cables should now be heatshrinked and taped and have a finish of tape that is not as thick diameter as the two outer cables , now starting 2Ē from end of outer cable on the old start taping , pulling tight on the tape as you go and go right over the cables that are heat shrinked and taped and go 2Ē onto the new outer casing, grease the cable and start pulling and pushing until itís moving smoothly and donít stop until you see the taped portion come through.
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P125X, P200E
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Sun Sep 13, 2020 9:34 pm quote
Thanks guys... I can do the heat shrink. I was going to use electrial tape because that's what I have. Can you suggest a tape you like better qascooter?
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1711
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:40 am quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
Thanks guys... I can do the heat shrink. I was going to use electrial tape because that's what I have. Can you suggest a tape you like better qascooter?
3-1 heat shrink capability, some is 2 to 1. Other than that, whatever works. I'm sure HF has some heat shrink tubing. I've got mine from Amazon....
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2633

Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:24 am quote
adhesive lined heat shrink might be what others have been using. I don't see the standard 2:1 heat shrink working that well. That being said, i have always just used a high quality electrical tape (3M) for chasing wires on my scooters and for home remodels. Every great once in a while the tape doesn't hold. Just make sure to clean whatever you tape with lacquer thinner first. The tape will stick better that way.

Last edited by whodatschrome on Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2024
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:50 am quote
Electrical tape never failed me (I only use tesa). I usually go headset to other end for all cables. You just have to push & pull simultaneously at a slow pace...
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1711
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:56 am quote
That's gotta be my problem - cheap-ass electrical tape And not cleaning the surface with alcohol or mineral spirits....
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2633

Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:09 am quote
qascooter wrote:
That's gotta be my problem - cheap-ass electrical tape And not cleaning the surface with alcohol or mineral spirits....
There's a HUGE difference between electrical tape qualities! It's well worth the price to get the best. Plus the good tape even sticks to blood pretty well...you know, for those times you need to cap off a finger.
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2024
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:27 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Plus the good tape even sticks to blood pretty well...you know, for those times you need to cap off a finger.
This is my go to temporary (sometimes permanent) "patching" when I cut myself in the garage. Tesa never failed me...
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1711
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:48 am quote
Good to know gentlemen - I'll be getting the good stuff from now on!

EDIT: AND getting rid of my crappy rolls of electrical tape...
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
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Location: So Cal
Mon Sep 14, 2020 12:58 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
qascooter wrote:
That's gotta be my problem - cheap-ass electrical tape And not cleaning the surface with alcohol or mineral spirits....
There's a HUGE difference between electrical tape qualities! It's well worth the price to get the best. Plus the good tape even sticks to blood pretty well...you know, for those times you need to cap off a finger.
+10. Tuk Tape is my go to.
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P125X, P200E
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Location: Fresno, CA
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:20 am quote
I just bought this... and some heat shrink so I hope this works. I'll try it out when my parts arrive.

IMG_6735.jpg

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P125X, P200E
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Location: Fresno, CA
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:24 am quote
On PX center stands most of the videos/pics I've seen show the shorter bracket, on the right, with the longer leg facing forward... but a couple show the bracket mounted with the longer leg facing to the rear. I'm guessing longer leg forward... am I right?

IMG_6734.jpg

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