Rebuilding a Spermy Vespa
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
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Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:53 am quote
Yes, longer side to the front for the stand to rest on the brackets and not on the floor. Many do this mistake so they end up with a deformed floor. Your tension plates also look really worn. A new pair would be nice. OEM part code is: 258555...

SyudOrU.jpg

Stand Plate.jpg

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P125X, P200E
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Location: Fresno, CA
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:48 pm quote
Aww man.... I know NOTHING about tension plates! Mine are practically flat... can I bend them a bit to put an angle on them? Then (dumb question time) do I mount them with the apex of the angle against the floor of the scooter? That seems to make sense.

IMG_6737.jpg

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P125X, P200E
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Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:07 am quote
I'm guessing that the center stand tension plates mount like the one on the right... not the one on the left. Correct?

IMG_6738.jpg

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2024
Location: Veria, Greece
Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:18 am quote
The angled side should put pressure on the stand...

FDBB78AA-E549-47A3-A480-69B932D8A1E8.jpeg

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P125X, P200E
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Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:23 am quote
Boy, I had it completely wrong, didn't I! I get it now, the plate puts pressure on the stand itself. Now, my question is, does the plate mount on the short leg, top, or the long leg, bottom?

Sorry for the questions, but I've never dealt with a scooter that had pressure plates before.

IMG_6739.jpg

IMG_6740.jpg

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P125X, P200E
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Location: Fresno, CA
Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:24 am quote
Where exactly do these tension plates go?
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86,95,96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
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Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:44 am quote
Those arenít tension plates. Those are hardened plates that the center stand rubs on. Rather than the centerstand rubbing against the soft steel of the frame weakening it, it rubs on those plates. A little interesting side note, smallframes donít have those, just large frames.

As far as installation, eyeball it and figure out which orientation covers the most surface area when the centerstand is deployed. 50/50 shot.
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2265

Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:49 am quote
MJRally wrote:
Those arenít tension plates. Those are hardened plates that the center stand rubs on. Rather than the centerstand rubbing against the soft steel of the frame weakening it, it rubs on those plates. A little interesting side note, smallframes donít have those, just large frames.

As far as installation, eyeball it and figure out which orientation covers the most surface area when the centerstand is deployed. 50/50 shot.
So whenever you buy a centrestand for a Large frame they should come with these plates? I gotta check mine.
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86,95,96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3726
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:15 am quote
Lynnb wrote:
MJRally wrote:
Those arenít tension plates. Those are hardened plates that the center stand rubs on. Rather than the centerstand rubbing against the soft steel of the frame weakening it, it rubs on those plates. A little interesting side note, smallframes donít have those, just large frames.

As far as installation, eyeball it and figure out which orientation covers the most surface area when the centerstand is deployed. 50/50 shot.
So whenever you buy a centrestand for a Large frame they should come with these plates? I gotta check mine.
They wont come in the same packaging. You have to ask for them. Not sure if a VBB had them to begin with. Got a parts diagram?
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P125X, P200E
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Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:49 am quote
Thanks guys... I've got the orientation figured out now and I'll be including new ones in my next order.
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2265

Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:04 am quote
MJRally wrote:
Lynnb wrote:
MJRally wrote:
Those arenít tension plates. Those are hardened plates that the center stand rubs on. Rather than the centerstand rubbing against the soft steel of the frame weakening it, it rubs on those plates. A little interesting side note, smallframes donít have those, just large frames.

As far as installation, eyeball it and figure out which orientation covers the most surface area when the centerstand is deployed. 50/50 shot.
So whenever you buy a centrestand for a Large frame they should come with these plates? I gotta check mine.
They wont come in the same packaging. You have to ask for them. Not sure if a VBB had them to begin with. Got a parts diagram?
Checked parts diagram, not there. Oh well something to think about adding.

Glad the stand is done, next step.
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86,95,96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
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Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:25 am quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
Thanks guys... I've got the orientation figured out now and I'll be including new ones in my next order.
Unless those are damaged you shouldnít have to replace them. Just reuse them.
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P125X, P200E
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Sat Sep 19, 2020 11:43 am quote
I'm reusing them for now but one forum member suggested that they looked pretty worn so I'll include a pair in my next order... they're cheap enough.

I removed the center stand to clean off the rust and repaint it and now that that's all done, I can go back to my ongoing project... replacing the throttle cable. My Scooter Mercato shipment should arrive next week and then I can replace the cable and move on to the next step... replacing the shocks.

This is turning into a damned long-term project!
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P125X, P200E
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
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Location: Fresno, CA
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:16 am quote
AH CRAP! Now I'm screwed!!

This morning I tried pulling my new throttle cable through the body by taping it to the old throttle cable and gently pushing/pulling it through. The cables got hung up at the headset and my gentle touch soon transformed into brute strength and ignorance and I pulled the cables apart. The old cable is now several inches down into the channel and I can't get the new one even started down the channel.

What do I do now?

Am I going to have to remove the headset and rethread everything? I've never done that and it looks intimidating.

Can anyone offer suggestions?

IMG_6758.jpg

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2265

Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:23 pm quote
If you're saying it got caught up at the headset I have the feeling its getting caught at the top of the frame where the two half moons are and the tape is jamming up. I did this job a week or so ago when my throttle cable needed to be replaced , I changed the outer cable at the same time. I was doing a snugging up with my bearings at the same time so I had the headset suspended and when I went to pull the new cable through I also had a hard time and had to move the cable to a widest part of the half moon and push the two cable joints through by hand greasing it up a bit and really flattening the joint and once through there I pulled through out the bottom easily. You can see on the refernce pic how the half moon is where its going to only have so much wiggle room and if your tape is too thick it will have to me trimmed a bit to fit through.

sept 24 throttle.jpg
two cables joined first with heat shrink

sept 24 throttle taped.jpg
heat shrink then taped

sept 24 half moon refernce.jpg
***Picture just for half moon reference**** half moon in top of frame where there's little room to pull taped cables through

sept 24 throttle pulled through.jpg
pulled through out the bottom



Last edited by Lynnb on Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
2010 S50 Modified "Punkin"; 2003 ET4 150 "ISO"
Joined: 18 Feb 2017
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Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:26 pm quote
Greetings:

Have you considered electrician's fish tape?
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86,95,96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3726
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:50 pm quote
Wheelman-111 wrote:
Greetings:

Have you considered electrician's fish tape?
Either that or try remove the existing throttle inner cable from down at the carb. Stick a clutch cable inner (something longer than the existing sheathing) from the carb up through the headset. Use that to pull/ wiggle the old outer cable back up to a point where you can reset/ reload.

Somewhere in the tip/ tricks section Vader recommended you find an inner twice as long as what you need. That way you can feed both outers onto it, and then pull the whole thing through. That way you didnt need electrical tape. Can anyone find that?
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P125X, P200E
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Location: Fresno, CA
Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:14 pm quote
I wish I had a half moon to work with Lynnb... on the P200, the throttle cable has to fit into a tiny hole that I can barely see. I tried pushing the new cable into the channel and can't even get it started. With the two cables taped together, there is no way that the taped junction of the two is going to fit... the cables that are already there take up all the space. Do I need to move or pull those other cables to make room for the throttle cable?

Even if I was able to get the old cable up and out MJRally, I'd still be stuck with the original problem of getting the two joined cables through the headset. That's why I'm wondering if I need to pull the headset. Can anyone give me a link on pulling the headset... I don't know how to do that.

IMG_6779.jpg

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2265

Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:17 pm quote
Oh my bad , I thought It was the same configuration. I would say same idea though as you have to get past that tight spot, moving cables or wire harness to the side will more than likely help.
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GL, PK, PE200 with hack, Sears Rust Badge
Joined: 24 Apr 2012
Posts: 912
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:01 pm quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
Can anyone give me a link on pulling the headset...
I hope thees two links can help. Should give you an idea of how things are routed, too.

http://www.vespamaintenance.com/body/forks/index.html

http://www.scooterhelp.com/tips/body/fork.bearings.html
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1713
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:17 pm quote
Bummer man - this is what I was afraid of....

Damn....
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86,95,96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3726
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:25 pm quote
Removing the headset lower is gonna be a pain. Much more of a pain than taking a step back and coming up with a game plan. Weíll figure this out!
Ossessionato
73 Rally, 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 65 Li225 Silver Special, 86,95,96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3726
Location: Oceanside/ SF
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:30 pm quote
Ok hereís one plan. Sleep on it before committing.

Random tricks, share your best little tips & shortcuts

Check out that link and scroll down about 2/3rds of the way to Vaderís trick.

Hopefully you can feed an inner from the carb up to the headset. Pull the old cable outer up, remove all the tape you have bunched up, add the new outer, and pull both through. Itís not going to be smooth as butter since thereís some bends but it hopefully will be a success.
If you do it his way, you eliminate the need for tape/the bulge and the cables should feed easier.
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2265

Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:40 pm quote
MJRally wrote:
Ok hereís one plan. Sleep on it before committing.

Random tricks, share your best little tips & shortcuts

Check out that link and scroll down about 2/3rds of the way to Vaderís trick.

Hopefully you can feed an inner from the carb up to the headset. Pull the old cable outer up, remove all the tape you have bunched up, add the new outer, and pull both through. Itís not going to be smooth as butter since thereís some bends but it hopefully will be a success.
If you do it his way, you eliminate the need for tape/the bulge and the cables should feed easier.
Yep I can see how Vaderís trick would work.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1713
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:22 pm quote
MJRally wrote:
Ok hereís one plan. Sleep on it before committing.

Random tricks, share your best little tips & shortcuts

Check out that link and scroll down about 2/3rds of the way to Vaderís trick
I suggested this earlier but he didn't want to cut one of the throttle cable end. The throttle cable inner comes with both ends attached. Doing it the above way is a very clean way to replace the cable outer, BUT, you gotta remove the inner of the new cable first.

Scooter Mercato sells a throttle cable pinch bolt for just this issue, so you can cut the cable, replace the old outer while the new outer is slid into place, put in the new cable, then add the pinch bolt.

Here is a link to the pinchbolt: http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Cable-Bits/TH-PB

Come to think of it, that's why I like to start at the back end and work to the headset...

You got this LuckyBear!
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1023
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Fri Sep 25, 2020 4:53 am quote
I tried the tape on my Stella, wouldn't fit, to much carp stuffed in there. If you have ends on both inner cables, get a stiff piece of wire and connect the inner cables together. Then some heat shrink tubing for the outer to align them and cover up the wire in the middle. You can get heat shrink tubing from harbor freight if you need some.
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Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:47 pm quote
Gotcha ya Bastard!!

I decided to take one more shot at threading my new throttle cable from the top end before removing the headset and doing it that way. (Iím familiar with Vaderís Trick and have used it many times but it doesnít work for the throttle cable which comes with a Top Hat at one end and a Knob already attached at the other.) After some energetic pushing and shoving I was able to move the existing cables aside enough to see daylight so I shoved in the new throttle cable and pushed it down to where it needed to turn into the channel under the floorboards. I had removed the horncast so I was able to guide the cable under the floorboards but then it got stuck about half way.

Looking under the horncast I spotted the old throttle cable Outer so I pulled it out and reattached the new throttle cable to it. First I drilled out the old cable as far as my drill bit would reach, then I inserted the knob on the new cable Inner and secured it first with heat wrap and then with good quality electrical tape. Once attached I was able to pull the new and the old cables through and into position. It was a son of a bitch but at at least now itís doneÖ and I never want to do it again.


2020-09-24 10.43.05.jpg
Drilling out old Outer

2020-09-24 10.43.31.jpg
Knob on new throttle Inner

2020-09-24 11.22.39.jpg
In it goes

2020-09-24 10.43.41.jpg

2020-09-24 11.23.56.jpg
Heat shrink

2020-09-24 11.02.49.jpg
Electrical tape over heat shrink

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1713
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:13 pm quote
BRAVO!

I would never have thought of drilling out the existing outer to fit the new inner into it like that!

Problem solved! What's next?

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
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Sun Sep 27, 2020 12:25 am quote
Well done, one hurtle at a time is going to win the race.
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Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:53 am quote
Excellent.
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P125X, P200E
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Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:30 pm quote
Ok, moving on, my next step is to install a pair of new Carbone adjustable shocks, but I don't know how they adjust. From the factory they are set at the "deepest" setting and will only adjust to the left. As set, will they give the stiffest ride or the softest ride? Sorry, I just don't know.

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Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1023
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:03 pm quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
Ok, moving on, my next step is to install a pair of new Carbone adjustable shocks, but I don't know how they adjust. From the factory they are set at the "deepest" setting and will only adjust to the left. As set, will they give the stiffest ride or the softest ride? Sorry, I just don't know.
As you move the spring perch up, the initial ride will be stiffer. You will have less sag.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1713
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Sep 29, 2020 6:28 pm quote
Where it's at is the softest setting. I like mine up a click....
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P125X, P200E
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Tue Sep 29, 2020 9:19 pm quote
Thanks guys. Since my riding style is "Old Man Wimpy" I'm going to keep it on the softest setting.
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