A Minnesota Shit Box in Texas (63 VNB resto).
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern 123456Next
Author Message
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:26 pm quote
I got a pretty good deal on what looked like a solid restoration candidate. Legshield trim and the Vespa badge were a bit of a curiosity as you would expect it to be an Allstate in 63. But, dealer sticker says Cushman Vespa - on Franklin Street in Minneapolis - making sense of why it's not the typical 60's Allstate VNB.

I got it for a little less than expected and stored it at a friend of a friends. (Huge shout out to Dean and Mischa!) When I initially bought the thing I planned to eventually go pick it up in on a side trip to visit friends/family. *sigh* Of course.... I quickly got the scooter jones and a bad case of the gimme gimme's, so I called Haul-bikes. My "good deal", cheap resto project became a "overpriced" resto project. (1275 for the scoot and the delivery).

Anyway... meet the shitbox: I think the OG amethyst gray is absolutely gorgeous. It has some issues, but also has a ton of character and a bunch of positives.

VNB Vespa badgeJPG.JPG
Frontside

vnb4tail.JPG
Backside

haul.JPG
My lack of self control writ large...



Last edited by Birdsnest on Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:00 pm; edited 2 times in total
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:39 pm quote
Some of the good...
Lots of OK paint and relatively straight body. The owner claimed the engine turned over and at first I was disappointed when it didn't kick over. But... I noticed that no clutch cable was anywhere to be seen and tried to move the clutch actuator by hand and then pushed down the kick start and got the sweet sound of the piston moving in the jug.

Nice.

VNB$.JPG

A front.JPG

PiaggioLow.jpg

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:50 pm quote
Some of the bad
I knew it has some floor board rust and a farmer bodge in the center channel. I was concerned about how much channel rust the farmer bodge was gonna be responsible for. I was suprised to see a secnond hack job on the side wall of the center channel.

floor and farmer bodge.JPG
I knew this was a concern

side bodge.JPG
An unpleasant surprise... I didn't clock the in the for sale pics. Looking back its pretty obvious,

Rust exterior  pan.JPG
underneath

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:00 pm quote
The channel of doom...
Some critter of course nested in the scoot for a winter of two. (Rat from St Paul who later sublet to a mouse family from Eagan.) Seriously the cancer in there looks a bit troubling...

Home.JPG
Warn in winter

Rust1.chennelJPG.JPG
Ouch

rust2 channel.JPG
the other side of ouch

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:16 pm quote
So the plan... open to suggestions of course.

I wanna keep the OG paint. I had planned to have the farmer bodge in the center channel welded closed. Would it be structurally sound to weld the bodge in the side channel? Meh... don't really have a choice. Of course, I need to treat the rust in there too. Thoughts?

Plan to do a pinasco ignition, 20/20 carb, just a stock p125 exhaust or equivalent and 150 or 177 top end. Obviously, tires, cables, harness, front end, etc.

Speaking of front end what's the best play there for a better ride?

Thanks for your thoughts folks.

Will leave ya with a few more pics....

Genoa.JPG

Aquila.JPG

SpeedoNo.JPG
Ahem... Anyone have a 63 speedo?

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4387
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:21 pm quote
But I betcha is gonna be a fun one.......
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4387
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:31 pm quote
And the cuts look all fixable, but rust is the tough nut to crack..... would it be possible to sandblast some of the worst stuff? The rust on my project was down low below the tank and just the beginning of the tunnel.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2626

Sun Mar 01, 2020 6:44 pm quote
It's not uncommon to find old scooters that farmers have cut holes in the sheet metal in order to gain access to the control cables. In your case, it would be VERY easy to weld them closed. It would probably take 15 minutes for a class A weld job....done and done right there.

I think everyone here knows my stance on rust, so i'll do my best to keep my mouth shut on this one. Besides, my recommendation would go against you wanting to keep the original paint.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a red lipstick '74 sprint
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5705
Location: Indo
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:13 pm quote
Great Find Brother

As for bad news, i think afc 50 rust remover spray can help inside all the tunnel and a good wax (this is were Brother Voodo should chime in) and weld the hole in the floorboard and try to cover it with a match paint

Good luck with the bike and cheer
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1711
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Mar 01, 2020 7:13 pm quote
Wow - looks like a fun project - nice find! I don't have anything to add except that I'll be watching the thread to see what you do!
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:08 am quote
Hey ebeth! Hope you are well my friend!

What do folks think about using converter or a "rust stopper" spayed into the channel after trying to manually clean what I can? I know there are 2 sides to the idea from skimming some old threads.

In some car forums I have read about some cavity sprays that combine converters/wax. I suspect it just slows the creep more than anything, but wondering if anyone here has first hand experience?

Eastwood:
shorturl.at/ksxIZ

or this:

https://www.waxoyl-usa.com/products/corrosion-protection/120-4.html
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 7942
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:01 am quote
man, i dig it. hopefully you can get the rusty bits under control and you don't get rat-fucked on the whole deal.

i'd leave it as OG as possible, rockin' the paint, bodges, bumps and bruises and then stab in a bone stock 125/150 three port motor, figure out a dampener for the front fork and ride the ever loving piss out of it.

-g
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7853
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:06 am quote
Check into POR15, the VW ppl swear by it and it seems like it would work nicely here. Just don't leave it out in the rain or ride it through the waves at the beach.

For your speedo, just go on aBay and get an indian knockoff OR get extremely lucky and parlay your moderator status into discovering one languishing on some obscure dusty shelf somewhere. If you find two, grab one for me. But my Indian one actually does work well enough...


https://www.por15.com/POR-15-Rust-Preventive-Coating


Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2258

Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:56 am quote
If you can get it back to some good metal that will be an easy fix with the welder. This will be a fun project.
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4387
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:31 am quote
My project had a nest the same as yours, but with the drip tray still intact, it lessened the damage to the upper area and easily remedied the rust problem with a media blaster. That Por stuff does look like it may work if you have the ability to turn the scoot upside down.
Ossessionato
BV350, Primavera 150, Yamaha Zuma 125
Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 3171
Location: The Twin Cities of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, Minnesota
Tue Mar 03, 2020 2:00 pm quote
Cushman Motor Company is still there. "Since 1949". No Vespas though!

IMG_1939.JPG

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:10 pm quote
Ok thatís hella cool. Thanks for posting up the pic!
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:39 pm quote
Thanks all for thoughts and suggestions yíall.... It funny Voodoo, I have a friend that has VW's and the POR 15 was his suggestion too. But he mentioned some spray I would need to use first... a rust converter or something. Reading more about it this evening.

Dropped the engine with one minor snafu. I had to cut the rear brake cable. Total panic move. I forgot to disconnect it and pulled both engine bolts. Complete cromag moment, but the scoot was teetering on the milkcrate with gravity making a strong case for a gong show. Figured itíd be easier to replace the cable than bang out more dents. Heh.

The paint behind the crusty engine was fookin gorgeous. I know Iím all smitten with the excitement of a new side piece and all, but I think this amethyst grey may be my favorite color. Top 3 at least.... Swoon.

Fork drop next.

Too lazy to resize pics

65CEC7C0-9FBB-4936-97BF-2AA75AC3BD52.jpeg



Last edited by Birdsnest on Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:42 pm quote
*Looks skyward* Iím working on it Vader. Iím working on it...

BF914719-622E-42A8-8459-FD3B7D2D8CCC.jpeg

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:44 pm quote
On da bench

955ACCE3-7CD4-443D-9E88-1695E0B90CAC.jpeg

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:46 pm quote
Next up

F123D8F9-95B9-4745-ACDA-E3B3022485F2.jpeg

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2258

Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:19 am quote
Front end should be interesting.
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:43 pm quote
Ok... we have found multiple farmer bodges. Throttle cable in the head set is classic corn engineering. Love it.

Also found a clutch case bolt removed so some rust in the clutch basket is probably assured. Bah...

But ..what I canít figure out is the solder on the bottom of the cable guide. Thoughts?

C0608BE7-F941-4A79-829E-4D2A73653733.jpeg



Last edited by Birdsnest on Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
1972 Vespa GTR, 1963 Lambretta LI 125
Joined: 05 Nov 2018
Posts: 131
Location: Halifax, England
Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:04 pm quote
My solder thoughts!

I'll bet that was a pool of solder he was tryng to make a nipple for the broken cable in. And quickly realised it was futile as I have done in the past.

Nice project, got me itching for another.
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:09 pm quote
L4NFF wrote:
My solder thoughts!

I'll bet that was a pool of solder he was tryng to make a nipple for the broken cable in. .
This. Thanks. I am sure you are right.
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:04 pm quote
It was a day of measuring success as a ratio of rusted nuts released vs how many times I stabbed myself with a screw driver in the process. Every single nut was pretty much seized in the front fender and points south. Lots of pb blaster. Lots of cussing, lots of waiting, and a couple bandaids.

One bolt left on the fender. Plan is to soak it overnight and give it another go before I cut the damn thing off. See below...

The best part of the day though was spent finding all sorts the farmer bodges. Old guy was making due with what he had for sure. *Hat tip*

994BBE88-EA06-407F-87F9-20815E8EC114.jpeg



Last edited by Birdsnest on Sat Mar 07, 2020 6:02 am; edited 1 time in total
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:07 pm quote
I mentioned this one yesterday but didnít post a good pic...

Flathead screw in some kinda capture nut as a stop on the throttle inner :

CE3082FA-91A7-4924-84E0-FE29E2E2B4BA.jpeg

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:08 pm quote
Then the selector cable has a brass retainer on the batwing

BA1223AB-B641-4036-948E-24B89C5A3783.jpeg

Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2258

Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:09 pm quote
These scoots can definitely cause pain.
Maybe you can add some heat to it.
I had a flat screw in my front fender that was holding down the trim piece on top and would budge, I was almost ready to give up with the screw slot being mangled and thought Iíd clean up the slot a bit with my cut off wheel , there was enough heat from the wheel that the mangled screw threaded right out.
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:10 pm quote
And my favorite so far... some kinda copper tubing crimped as an outer on the speedo cable.

D8C64064-5096-4AC0-908B-5D2BFE61030E.jpeg

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:12 pm quote
Stuffing things back in the garage for the day....

F635AD14-F7E7-46B5-95FF-FB947E876238.jpeg

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:13 pm quote
And finally ... to see some progress... I cleaned up the carb box lower to end the day.

7BC52EAA-E881-4AA8-A0C8-9AEAB06C396F.jpeg

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:14 pm quote
Time for a gin and tonic:

The after:

9E484F2F-B27B-4AAB-91D2-167D22DCB5C9.jpeg

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:19 pm quote
Hey Lynn!
Yeah... I will try the torch for sure before I do to the cut off wheel. Thanks for the reminder.
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5428
Location: So Cal
Fri Mar 06, 2020 3:56 pm quote
Since acquiring the GL, Iíve decided sprays are pretty useless against mature rust. Go straight to the torch.

79AEC417-49BB-49B5-A451-0670E9451327.gif

Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4387
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Fri Mar 06, 2020 5:51 pm quote
Agreed, heat concentrated in the right area does wonders. Heck, I have set PBlaster on fire using a torch and that worked good too. Just keep the fire extinguisher close buy and wear good eye protection in case something "pops" during all this and comes flying at you.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a red lipstick '74 sprint
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5705
Location: Indo
Sat Mar 07, 2020 12:53 pm quote
Birdsnest wrote:
Time for a gin and tonic:

The after:
Vader will be proud
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4378
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:15 am quote
Vader would send me back to the garage to try again on that carb box.
But thanks!!!

Yesterday was a crap day. The front fork tear down has become a bit of white whale due to rust.

May walk away for the day and then come back at it with more fire (and then cutting wheel if needed). I need to get a fire extinguisher anyway. There was almost an incident. But, since the wife doesnít know, and the melted piece of packing blanket cleaned up well, and the only witness is the dog... nothing happened. *ahem*
Ossessionato
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
Posts: 4387
Location: Tega Cay, SC
Sun Mar 08, 2020 6:45 am quote
^^^ Been there. After commandeering the oven, clothes dryer, and house vacuum a few times, I found it easier just to struggle thru rather then suffer the backlash of my lovely (and patient) wife.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1719
Location: california
Sun Mar 08, 2020 2:41 pm quote
https://youtu.be/39GTH8UlXK8?t=52
Team Scooter Trash for Petfinder Foundation   Vespa Wasp Pin Badges   AF1 Racing Vespa Austin
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern 123456Next
[ Time: 0.1772s ][ Queries: 27 (0.0437s) ][ Debug on ]