A Minnesota Shit Box in Texas (63 VNB resto).
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P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:14 pm quote
Quote:
Glad I found this thread. Recently joined after picking up a '65 VBB 150 (many other 2t's including Lambretta, Vespa Mopeds, etc) and it's good to follow along a proper resto.

Sadly, my frame is MUCH rougher than yours, so I am trying to source a replacement, or if need be some replacement panels to rebuild my chassis.

Watching!
Welcome to the forum!
I wont be doing much in the way of body work on this one... not in my wheelhouse. Shoot, I am a total hack mechanic. (I've just done a few engine rebuilds.)

There are a ton of crazy talented folks around though. For bodywork one recent thread comes to mind...

bodywork - over my head

Good luck, and post up your progress in a thread!
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P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:17 pm quote
sdjohn wrote:
that's pretty cool, do you think Gick could do that for an allstate fork? nice looking setup.
I suspect he could probably figure something out.
Hooked
58 VB1T, 68 SS180, 81 100 Sport
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 431
Location: Long Beach, CA
Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:34 pm quote
Birdsnest wrote:
sdjohn wrote:
that's pretty cool, do you think Gick could do that for an allstate fork? nice looking setup.
I suspect he could probably figure something out.
Gickspeed specializes in Allstates and Widebody's. He can definitely hook you up.
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P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:02 am quote
While I am waiting on the post man to deliver a new selector bearing. All that info and learning is here:
Method for seating rollers in Selector bearing

... I did the gas tank bugaloo today.

I have stopped using a nuts and bolts and switched to black rocks (the kind you see in gardens) as the
abrasive. Seems much more effective. Did water and about a tablespoon of naval jelly. Drained followed by degreaser/soap and water.

Worked a charm.

Before -

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Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:03 am quote
After-

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P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Thu Apr 30, 2020 10:27 am quote
Next thing that needs sorting are the two farmer bodge holes.

The first one is (or will be) underneath the center mat. Cheap fix would be to grind down the two razor sharp tetnus corners... seriously they are waiting to stab through some skin or the center-mat at the very least.

The other bodge is tougher. It too has some sharp ass edges... but with no center-mat to cover it up, I wonder if I should drop some shackles to get it welded closed?
Thoughts?

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Center-mat should cover this.

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Weld it closed? Or?

Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7854
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:34 pm quote
Birdsnest wrote:
.......
I wonder if I should drop some shackles to get it welded closed?
Thoughts?
Yeah, I would. In for a dime, in for a dollar if you want it right so you can forget about it and focus on the rest, mostly all DIY, right?
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P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:54 pm quote
I donít weld or have a welder... but I have a friend of a friend that will do a professional job for a fair price.

We will see...
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1727
Location: california
Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:02 pm quote
If you wanted to home roll that one - but you don't weld - you could go with panel adhesive. Been some talk on here of late - and I think SoCal has used at some point with very nice results. You might ask him to lead the way. I imagine you could do it pretty seamlessly - think fancy JB weld for steel.

Just a thought.
-CM
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P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri May 01, 2020 4:55 pm quote
Thanks! Will do a search and see what it turns up.
óóóóó

Today after work was all about rusted out slotted screws.

Started out with 8.
Down to 2. One on each side of course.

Added some penetrant and will let it it sit overnight...

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Member
Sprint/Super Mongrel
Joined: 03 Nov 2019
Posts: 49
Location: Hong Kong
Fri May 01, 2020 5:17 pm quote
Having just shared your rusty screw experience Iíve been mulling over better methods of fixing the mat in place. Screwing anything into steel panels inevitably sets the clock running on when the rust will appear...
Iíve trimmed the edge detail off the mat (chewed up anyway) and think Iíll go the bonding route. Probably a sheet of double-sided tape or contact adhesive. Double-sided has the advantage of being easier to soak off with solvent if/when removal is necessary. Fits well into the de-chroming Iím looking for.
Anyone tried the same?
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P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sat May 02, 2020 7:33 am quote
Edges would be my only concern in that the chrome rails help keep the mat from ripping and tearing.

My rails also need to come off to help accommodate some welding.
óó-

Still at 6 down with 2 to go...
bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5429
Location: So Cal
Sat May 02, 2020 9:06 am quote
Got all of mine out, thankfully.

Soaked em in Evaporust for a couple of days, then PB Blaster.
Used Vice Grips on the head of the screws and turned them out ~ s l o w l y ~

The chrome strips are essential unless you go full bodge and use a P style mat, which IMO looks terrible on pre-P scoots.
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P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Mon May 04, 2020 8:48 am quote
Center mat strips are finally off. *small victory dance, followed by shot of bourbon*

After a ton of effort on the last two screws, I ended up using a cut off wheel to take the heads flush with the frame. Sigh. It's done and I suspect the new screw will drive out the old (Or i will drill it out.)

Floor rails are off on the port side, rust remediation mostly complete there. Also got the brake pedal switch (broken at the bottom) off after another battle with a rusted screw. The lower one was a mofo. (So happy to be almost done with all the rust.)

Ready now to go get the holes welded up. Hopefully Wednesday or Friday.

My paint guy did me a huge solid. He digs that I do weirdo scooters and spent a ton of time doing a PPG match. We had the code but the first test based on the 710 code was really blue in comparison . He worked his magic and I shot a test piece yesterday. I could not be happier with the match. Now, I'm shooting the touch up spots (just where the rust had to be addressed) with my old airbrushes so I need to do a ton of practice and work on the right ratios of paint/acetone. The airbrushes are great for detail, but the paint has to be thinned pretty well or it gums up the needle.

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Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1711
Location: Florence, OR
Mon May 04, 2020 9:09 am quote
Magic!
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P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri May 08, 2020 9:30 am quote
Closed up the extra holes...

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Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1727
Location: california
Sat May 09, 2020 7:03 am quote
Nice bit of welding done there.
That and the paint feels like a turning point on this one coming back to life!
You may have to change the title of this thing.
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P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun May 17, 2020 7:18 am quote
Thanks. He did a good job at a fair price.

Today Iím trying to reclaim the rims from ye old rust monster while I wait for The previously mentioned selector bearing to be delivered.

Been to humid and wet to paint the floor the last few days so the wheels are the only progress this weekend.

Before and after pics when I get to a computer.

For now... a 1961 Pirelli.
I would suspect original to the scoot.

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Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun May 17, 2020 12:12 pm quote
one done one to go...

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Old friend Rusty

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Converting with phosphoric acid

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Mat black the f@*#er

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun May 17, 2020 12:19 pm quote
In the world of easy wins....
(I was due for one.)
The rear brake pedal on these is typically a pain in all 9 assholes (Greasyism) to remove. I expected it to be another rusted out shitshow. But, with a touch of penetrant and some needle nose it came out on the first try. Yep yep. *cracks beer*
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2263

Sun May 17, 2020 5:01 pm quote
Cleaning up nicely , I'm amazed how good that Italy made tire looks.
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun May 17, 2020 5:14 pm quote
If it had ANY tread I might run it as a spare for decoration. Just a cool wall hanger though
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2633

Sun May 17, 2020 9:54 pm quote
Iíd just slather enough coats of Armorall to fill all the cracks in the rubber, and mount it back up on the front end!



Seriously though, with the welding and touch up paint, itís coming along very nicely. It will definitely be a winner for sure!
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P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Mon May 25, 2020 11:44 am quote
Long delay.... shipping disasters and more.... (I may or may not have knocked a garage lower-cabinet off itís IKEA hangers while seating a bearing.) Ahem.

First, the BGM Gear selector bearing - donít bother. Itís supposed to be a fancy version of the 3-part that you canít drift into place. It didnít even make it from the packing to the workbench before the cage, race, and all 14 rollers were separated. Iím sure the look on my face was something to see.

Luckily, Diamond Dave had already put another in the the post due to the aforementioned shipping gongshow. Thanks to Scooter Mercato we were back at it Sunday morning. *doffs cap in the direction of Georgia*

Fly side is pretty much done.
Cush drive rebuilt and seated on the clutch side.

And more paint prep done.

Progress.

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Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2263

Mon May 25, 2020 2:15 pm quote
So pirdy
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 7944
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Mon May 25, 2020 2:18 pm quote
You can come and clean cases for me anytime!

Iíll handle the bearing installs tho.



-g
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P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:08 pm quote
greasy125 wrote:
You can come and clean cases for me anytime!
Iíll handle the bearing installs tho.
Yeah, yeah.

OK, so some progress to report. (Finally.)
Had another round a fussing and fighting with the crank. Heated the case (bearings already on crank) and it was never even close to seating. Then went with the frozen crank and heated case and, again... it was never gonna seat.

Decided to pull it in after consulting the Bearing Master. I found a suitable plate of steel and modified it so I wouldn't fuck up the seal. Worked a charm.

plate.jpg

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P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:11 pm quote
Seated.

seated.jpg

plateandpuller.jpg

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:15 pm quote
After all the crap this rebuild has thrown at me I was certain the fly side was gonna be a bitch and fight me for every mm. But after heating iup the case it dropped on with no problem. Felt good to finally get an easy win!

...and as much as I wanted to keep grinding in the garage. It's like 95f and 95% humidity hear in TX... so it's time for a drink and a ride. Or a ride and a drink(s).

Cheers.

engine.jpg
olť

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 7944
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:49 pm quote
Delighted one of the suggested methods of engagement worked! And for the fly side to just drop on was a big win.

But check you out trucking it along!

Pour yourself a tall one and revel in victory!

Now stop slacking and get after that paint!!

-g
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1727
Location: california
Sat Jun 06, 2020 4:09 pm quote
Oh, so that's how you pull it in without completely f*&king up a half dozen seals. Who knew?!
New trick for me.
Awesome.

Cocktails are gonna taste 2x as sweet after the cases came together like that.
Lookin good!
Enjoy!
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4438
Location: San Diego, CA
Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:41 am quote
how'd you get those cases looking so good? Nice work on pulling that crank in.

I'm getting the jones again to get a VBB, you are making me jealous.
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:25 am quote
sdjohn wrote:
how'd you get those cases looking so good? Nice work on pulling that crank in.

I'm getting the jones again to get a VBB, you are making me jealous.
Just donít get one as roached out and rusted as this old girl was.
Iíve ridden a few but never owned one and have always wanted to roll on some 8s. Figure with the electronic ignitions and some minor upgrades there is no reason not too ride one these days. Excited to be doing this one for sure.

Cases were vapor blasted. Cost me a fiddy...but it was worth it to get a real good look at the cases and make sure they were solid.

Question For the knowledgeable folk-
SoCal recently posted about his GL steering stops being FUBAR. What are they supposed to look like in a VNB circa 63?

Pic below is what I got. Aside from the rust does that look ďnormalĒ?

TIA

EFD3A067-44B2-40E2-9F97-E3351167E5AB.jpeg

Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:34 am quote
NM
After consulting the SS manual It matches up and looks normal. Crusty... but normal.

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bodgemaster
1963 GL, 1976 Super (x 2), 1974 Primavera (x 2), 2006 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5429
Location: So Cal
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:42 am quote
Quote:
What are they supposed to look like in a VNB circa 63?
Easy way to test. With the frame on its back, drop the fork in and turn it side to side as far as it will go. Does it stop about the same place in both directions?
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Jun 14, 2020 12:23 pm quote
Right side turned out better than the left. There was more pitting on the left side and I should have used some filler. But overall I am pretty stoked.

Flattening the gloss with Talc was a pretty impactful step. It really started to blend at that point. I still need to feather in the transitions, but once the center mat and rails are back in it'll look pretty good from 5 feet or at 5 mph.

Onwards...

Leftbefore.JPG

Talc.JPG

waiting for 2000.JPG



Last edited by Birdsnest on Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2263

Sun Jun 14, 2020 1:37 pm quote
Well done, now you just need some rails.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1727
Location: california
Sun Jun 14, 2020 7:49 pm quote
Awesome.
Also: set your idle to run no slower than 5mph.
perfect!
Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:01 pm quote
Baby steps his week...

Any vendor out there that has a brass bushing for a clutch rebuild? I am a buyer. Waiting on mail order for a 4.00 part to finish the engine is killing me.... arrrrgghhhhh.

OK. rear brake pedal stuff was posted about elsewhere:
http://modernvespa.com/forum/post2411815#2411815

Then, I started working on the headset. The OG paint was too roached to do touch up so I stripped it back to zero and then shot it with primer. It was too humid here to shoot the top coats so we will sand and leave it for another day.

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Moderator
P200 PX150
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4379
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:11 pm quote
Next up was the wiring harness. I have to say it seems like the opening/turn in the center channel in a VNB4T is painfully small. (I almost understand why the old farmer cut into the center channel... almost.) I don't recall the previous harness I ran in a Primavera being nearly so difficult?

To get it done I ran a fish from the horn opening to the back and then pulled the harness through. Then I reran a fish from the headset down to the horn cast to run it up.

Lots of pushing and pulling and requisite cussing before we got it through...

Onwards....

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