Help! My GTS 300 won't start
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Member
GTS 300
Joined: 02 Apr 2020
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Location: Madrid
Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:34 am quote
Hello everyone. I've read the other threads but haven't found a solution. Hopefully someone can give me some new tips.

I have a 2016 Vespa 300GTS. It's in good condition and has been serviced correctly. 6000KM.

It won't start!

I turn it on. I hear the fuel injector do its thing. I press the start button and it turns over, turns over, turns over.... but won't start.

✔︎ There's fuel in the tank
✔︎ I've recharged the battery, just in case, and its at 100%
✔︎ I replaced the spark plug and the new one is sparking (I checked)
✔︎ All fuses are okay

Dont know what else to do!!

Any help gratefully recieved.
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GTS 300ie Touring - Signora D'argento
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Thu Apr 02, 2020 4:48 am quote
A couple of things to consider. Are your brake switches working? i.e. when you squeeze your brake levers, does your brake light come on?

Check your starter relay. If you lift the seat and remove the pet carrier (storage bucket) you should hear the relay 'click' when you press the starter switch.
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In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:01 am quote
The spark plug is wet after you have tried to start the engine but it has not started?
Many greetings and solidarity from Italy.
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2007 LX150
Joined: 10 Oct 2017
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Location: Washington DC
Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:43 am quote
It’s likely not a brake light switch or starter relay if you’re able to get it to “ turn over, turn over, turn over.”

I’d start by checking that you have spark. If you’ve recently replaced the plug, you may have inadvertently disconnected the internals of the HT lead from the plug cap, or possibly somewhere else.

To check for spark, remove plug, insert it in plug cap, set it on the block to ground it, and push the starter button. As it cranks, if you see a spark jumping the gap, then you’ve ruled that out.
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:52 am quote
You say you can "hear the fuel injector" - surely you mean you can hear the fuel pump prime? You need to remove the injector (carefully, easily broken connections) and check it actually sprays fuel when you turn the engine over.

If so, check the bypass passage in the throttle body is clear. If this is badly dirty or blocked, it'll prevent the engine starting, as this is the only air getting in apart from a tiny, tiny amount past the closed throttle butterfly.
Member
GTS 300
Joined: 02 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Madrid
Thu Apr 02, 2020 7:38 am quote
>>You say you can "hear the fuel injector" - surely you mean you can hear the fuel pump prime? You need to remove the injector (carefully, easily broken connections) and check it actually sprays fuel when you turn the engine over.

Yes, I mean fuel pump. When I remove the spark plug and test for spark I do see sparks and I also distinctly smell fuel -- which makes me think that the fuel injector is working.

(I'm not famous for my "light touch" so I'd prefer to not mess with anything delicate if I can avoid it)

>>If so, check the bypass passage in the throttle body is clear. If this is badly dirty or blocked, it'll prevent the engine starting, as this is the only air getting in apart from a tiny, tiny amount past the closed throttle butterfly.

I don't know how to do that. I'll need to try and find a YouTube video.

>>Are your brake switches working?

Yes. My brake switches are working.

>>Check your starter relay...you should hear the relay 'click' when you press the starter switch.

I don't hear a 'click'. If my spark plug is sparking and the starter motor is turning the engine, could this still be the issue?


Thank you everyone.
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:04 am quote
We5ty wrote:
>>If so, check the bypass passage in the throttle body is clear. If this is badly dirty or blocked, it'll prevent the engine starting, as this is the only air getting in apart from a tiny, tiny amount past the closed throttle butterfly.

I don't know how to do that. I'll need to try and find a YouTube video.
https://cheekythoma3.wixsite.com/itsme/idle
Quote:
>>Check your starter relay...you should hear the relay 'click' when you press the starter switch.

I don't hear a 'click'. If my spark plug is sparking and the starter motor is turning the engine, could this still be the issue?
Irrelevant. If the engine turns over with the starter, all that is OK.
Hooked
2009 250
Joined: 13 Oct 2019
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Location: Canada
Thu Apr 02, 2020 1:31 pm quote
Open the throttle while cranking and see if it starts or stumbles.
Member
300 GTS supertech HPE
Joined: 09 Jun 2019
Posts: 17

Thu Apr 02, 2020 2:11 pm quote
have you tried startgas?
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2015 Vespa GTS300 Super
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Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:23 pm quote
I had the same problem. If you like to read, read this:

Started as a spark plug post; now down the rabbit hole we go

Or you could always try the old “Throttle Body Tap” See the video at:

2015 GTS300 starting issue - The Throttle Body Tap
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2015 Vespa GTS300 Super
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Thu Apr 02, 2020 6:50 pm quote
Spoiler alert - It ended up being the ECU in the end.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8718
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:03 am quote
S.Ro wrote:
Open the throttle while cranking and see if it starts or stumbles.
All three of my full injected scooters will stop turning over if you open the throttle while cracking it over.

Wayne B
Hooked
2009 250
Joined: 13 Oct 2019
Posts: 160
Location: Canada
Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:52 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
S.Ro wrote:
Open the throttle while cranking and see if it starts or stumbles.
All three of my full injected scooters will stop turning over if you open the throttle while cracking it over.

Wayne B
Weird. Mine will jump straight to the rpm that I hold the throttle at. Example, open throttle 1/4 turn and hit the starter and rpm goes to ~4000rpm.

Thought this was a way to bypass the idle stepper valve.
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:10 pm quote
S.Ro wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
S.Ro wrote:
Open the throttle while cranking and see if it starts or stumbles.
All three of my full injected scooters will stop turning over if you open the throttle while cracking it over.

Wayne B
Weird. Mine will jump straight to the rpm that I hold the throttle at. Example, open throttle 1/4 turn and hit the starter and rpm goes to ~4000rpm.

Thought this was a way to bypass the idle stepper valve.
It's the later ones (2015+ ?) that have that throttle restriction - it may be only the ones with ABS/ASR.
Hooked
2009 250
Joined: 13 Oct 2019
Posts: 160
Location: Canada
Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:12 pm quote
If he/she turns off ASR still the same thing?
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:13 pm quote
S.Ro wrote:
If he/she turns off ASR still the same thing?
Yes.
Hooked
2009 250
Joined: 13 Oct 2019
Posts: 160
Location: Canada
Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:15 pm quote
So there's no way to bypass the idle passage?
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Apr 03, 2020 5:27 pm quote
S.Ro wrote:
So there's no way to bypass the idle passage?
No, not without completely fucking-up the TPS settings - and why would you want to? It's easy enough to clean. Damn sight easier than doing a full carb clean.
Hooked
Vespa t5 Mk1
Joined: 03 Sep 2015
Posts: 112
Location: Norway
Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:51 am quote
does you fuel pump activate when turned on ignition?
do you have spark?
it could be rollover sensor under right fot plastic that is defekt?

hade on of mine scooter with same problem engine light didt light up.

under the diagnose they told me that no error was shown, but the roll over sensor and the side stand sensor. do the same thing cut engine coil
they said that the roll over sensor was active(like mye scooter was fallen over,
they found water in it, could be it placed close to the fins under the righ side of scooter
Hooked
2009 250
Joined: 13 Oct 2019
Posts: 160
Location: Canada
Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:43 am quote
jimc wrote:
S.Ro wrote:
So there's no way to bypass the idle passage?
No, not without completely fucking-up the TPS settings - and why would you want to?...
I would want to bypass the idle passage to get the bike running. That might rule out the valves are out of adjustment, cam timing off, battery too weak for a spark, broken spark plug, spark plug cap not attached or the wire broken, broken fuel injector or connection, broken ecu, clogged intake passage, no or bad gas, no compression.

Thanks for the knowledge jimc, and for sharing it!
Member
300 GTS
Joined: 05 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:31 am quote
theschuman wrote:
I had the same problem. If you like to read, read this:

Started as a spark plug post; now down the rabbit hole we go

Or you could always try the old “Throttle Body Tap” See the video at:

2015 GTS300 starting issue - The Throttle Body Tap
I'm having the exact same problem. This is so frustrating. I went on a couple rides this spring (live in Michigan) and then all of a sudden it just won't start. I hear the starter relay clicking, have checked all fuses, I guess I'll check the battery next. How can that be since it was starting fine one moment and then not even trying to turn over.

Shuman, thanks for the video on the tapping. I'll try that too. You say it was the ECU in the end. How did you replace that? Anybody?
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:38 am quote
If the starter relay clicks once and then nothing happens, the most likely scenario is that the starter relay contacts have got so dirty from arcing that they no longer pass any significant current. Quite common. Quick and easy to prove if this is the case - remove the relay from its connector and short across the two big cables on the connector with needle-nosed pliers. If the starter then turns over the engine quite happily - that's your problem. Any FLAPS will have a replacement.
Member
300 GTS
Joined: 05 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:51 am quote
Thanks JimC! I'll give that a try. Can I just (very carefully) hold the two big cables together instead of needle-nosed pliers?

Here's a pic of the starter relay, btw. Looks pretty clean, no? Thoughts?

Starter relay.JPG

Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6362
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:56 am quote
Two things:
1. It's the connections inside that matter here.
2. Wear good gloves and don't let the wires touch the scooter.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 39463
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:29 am quote
^^^^
THIS!

The outer brown case can be carefully prised off - you can then see the state of the actual contacts inside.
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Granturismo 218
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Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:14 pm quote
KS wrote:
Thanks JimC! I'll give that a try. Can I just (very carefully) hold the two big cables together instead of needle-nosed pliers?

Here's a pic of the starter relay, btw. Looks pretty clean, no? Thoughts?
You can do it with two screwdrivers as well, without taking the two big cables off.
Member
300 GTS
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Posts: 8
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Mon Apr 06, 2020 2:57 pm quote
Thank you Sully, jimc, MotoVista! I'll give this a try first thing in the morning and see what happens. I hope to post back that it worked and that a new relay is on the way.
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2015 Vespa GTS300 Super
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Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:28 am quote
KS wrote:
Shuman, thanks for the video on the tapping. I'll try that too. You say it was the ECU in the end. How did you replace that? Anybody?
For your sake, I hope it’s not the throttle body/ECU. It’s an expensive part. Luckily for me, the Vespa ECU/throttle body King of the World lives in New Britain, CT, about 30 minutes away from me. He switched my throttle body/ECU out with one he had in stock. Try the other easy stuff first before swapping out the throttle body. It could be the battery or the relay or something much less expensive than the integrated throttle body/ECU assembly. And you can try the old “throttle body tap”. I wouldn’t go too hard on the throttle body, though. A few gentle taps should do.
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2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
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Posts: 8718
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:33 am quote
jimc wrote:
S.Ro wrote:
WEB-Tech wrote:
S.Ro wrote:
Open the throttle while cranking and see if it starts or stumbles.
All three of my full injected scooters will stop turning over if you open the throttle while cracking it over.

Wayne B
Weird. Mine will jump straight to the rpm that I hold the throttle at. Example, open throttle 1/4 turn and hit the starter and rpm goes to ~4000rpm.

Thought this was a way to bypass the idle stepper valve.
It's the later ones (2015+ ?) that have that throttle restriction - it may be only the ones with ABS/ASR.
Happens to my 2013 BV350 for sure, will have to test the 2008 MP3 500 and the 2020 Vespa.
Member
300 GTS
Joined: 05 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:43 pm quote
So I tried shorting the two big cables that go into the starter relay with needle nose pliers. Still just clicks.

By the way, I left the 2 smaller cables connected to the relay when using the pliers. When I disconnect them, there is no clicking.

So maybe I didn’t use the pliers correctly? Not sure.

Should I just order a new relay and see if that works? If its not the relay, I’m stuck. Thoughts?
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:05 pm quote
KS wrote:
So I tried shorting the two big cables that go into the starter relay with needle nose pliers. Still just clicks.
So the starter motor made a click sound? The ignition should be switched off for this test of course...
Quote:
By the way, I left the 2 smaller cables connected to the relay when using the pliers. When I disconnect them, there is no clicking.
You shouldn't be getting any clicking from the relay with the above test - the bike should be switched off. Shorting the two big cables should be connecting the battery directly to the starter motor.
Quote:
So maybe I didn’t use the pliers correctly? Not sure.

Should I just order a new relay and see if that works? If its not the relay, I’m stuck. Thoughts?
Before you do anything else, double check the starter motor cables (both +ve and -ve) are connected to the starter motor securely, and that the -ve is grounded properly to the frame. Also check the battery connections are tight and that the -ve connects properly to the frame. I'm afraid I assumed this would have been done already...
Member
300 GTS
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Posts: 8
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:53 pm quote
jimc wrote:
KS wrote:
So I tried shorting the two big cables that go into the starter relay with needle nose pliers. Still just clicks.
So the starter motor made a click sound? The ignition should be switched off for this test of course...
Quote:
By the way, I left the 2 smaller cables connected to the relay when using the pliers. When I disconnect them, there is no clicking.
You shouldn't be getting any clicking from the relay with the above test - the bike should be switched off. Shorting the two big cables should be connecting the battery directly to the starter motor.
Quote:
So maybe I didn’t use the pliers correctly? Not sure.

Should I just order a new relay and see if that works? If its not the relay, I’m stuck. Thoughts?
Before you do anything else, double check the starter motor cables (both +ve and -ve) are connected to the starter motor securely, and that the -ve is grounded properly to the frame. Also check the battery connections are tight and that the -ve connects properly to the frame. I'm afraid I assumed this would have been done already...
Yup, sounds like I didn’t do the test right. You’re saying I should put the key in the off position with this test?

I had the key in the on position, and then carefully used the pliers to connect the two big cables from the relay. That should have started the bike, right? It didn’t, so then I pushed the start button for good measure. And the relay did that single click again. What am I doing wrong here?

Thanks for the suggestion on checking all the +ve and -ve cables. You assumed correctly, already done.
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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:28 pm quote
KS wrote:
Yup, sounds like I didn’t do the test right. You’re saying I should put the key in the off position with this test?
Yes.
Quote:
I had the key in the on position, and then carefully used the pliers to connect the two big cables from the relay. That should have started the bike, right?
Yes - at least the starter motor should have turned over.
Quote:
It didn’t, so then I pushed the start button for good measure. And the relay did that single click again. What am I doing wrong here?

Thanks for the suggestion on checking all the +ve and -ve cables. You assumed correctly, already done.
OK, so we have established the starter motor isn't turning when power applied. You'll need to get hold of a multimeter to ensure there's 12V across it when you short out the two big cables (or, with ignition on, try to start as normal). Although pretty rare, it is possible the starter motor has failed - it's also possible it is jammed in the Sprag clutch that would turn the engine over. However, if there was no big spark when you shorted the two big wires, that seems unlikely.

If you get hold of a multimeter (a cheap one is only about $10 from Harbor Freight) you can also check the battery is in fact fully charged.
Enthusiast
Kymco Downtown 300i
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 68
Location: Hillville, TN
Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:15 am quote
Re: Help! My GTS 300 won't start
We5ty wrote:
Hello everyone. I've read the other threads but haven't found a solution. Hopefully someone can give me some new tips.

I have a 2016 Vespa 300GTS. It's in good condition and has been serviced correctly. 6000KM.

It won't start!

I turn it on. I hear the fuel injector do its thing. I press the start button and it turns over, turns over, turns over.... but won't start.

✔︎ There's fuel in the tank
✔︎ I've recharged the battery, just in case, and its at 100%
✔︎ I replaced the spark plug and the new one is sparking (I checked)
✔︎ All fuses are okay

Dont know what else to do!!

Any help gratefully recieved.
I think I read the whole thread. I can see that "it turns over and over and over" means the start switch, start relay (small), start relay (large), brake switches and starter motor are ALL functional.

He says the plug is sparking.

The question was asked, "Is the spark plug wet?" Attila asked this and it was the only question We5ty did not answer. Someone else asked if the injector would squirt fuel when out of the engine and start was pushed. Both good questions and answers could indicate either the problem or the next step.

Unfortunately, We5ty seems to be gone....
Member
300 GTS
Joined: 05 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:39 pm quote
jimc wrote:
KS wrote:
Yup, sounds like I didn’t do the test right. You’re saying I should put the key in the off position with this test?
Yes.
Quote:
I had the key in the on position, and then carefully used the pliers to connect the two big cables from the relay. That should have started the bike, right?
Yes - at least the starter motor should have turned over.
Quote:
It didn’t, so then I pushed the start button for good measure. And the relay did that single click again. What am I doing wrong here?

Thanks for the suggestion on checking all the +ve and -ve cables. You assumed correctly, already done.
OK, so we have established the starter motor isn't turning when power applied. You'll need to get hold of a multimeter to ensure there's 12V across it when you short out the two big cables (or, with ignition on, try to start as normal). Although pretty rare, it is possible the starter motor has failed - it's also possible it is jammed in the Sprag clutch that would turn the engine over. However, if there was no big spark when you shorted the two big wires, that seems unlikely.

If you get hold of a multimeter (a cheap one is only about $10 from Harbor Freight) you can also check the battery is in fact fully charged.
Ok, update. I took the battery into an autoparts store and it tested good. I have not done the multimeter test yet. But here's my question. If the battery tested good, would I not see a spark when I short the two big cables on the starter relay?

I'll test the starter motor with the multi-meter and circle back. I agree with you, it's probably rare that the issue is there.

One thing I should have mentioned is that I had this exact problem a couple years ago and took the bike into the only shop that services Vespas (which is now closed, FYI). They did all these tests with the multi-meter and they all checked out that current was going to the right places. What they came up with was the Sprag clutch was jammed! Just like you said JimC! but how can the jam be recurring?! Also, if it's jammed, wouldn't there be a torturous sound leading up to the jam in previous starts? Any thoughts, please?
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 39463
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Apr 08, 2020 3:28 pm quote
If it was jammed, the stall current through the starter motor would be HUGE. Oh yes, you'd see a big spark all right!

Chase with a multimeter. We've diagnosed as much as we can from afar.
Member
GTS 300
Joined: 02 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Madrid
Fri May 01, 2020 10:51 pm quote
>The question was asked, "Is the spark plug wet?" Attila asked this and it was the only question We5ty did not answer. Someone else asked if the injector would squirt fuel when out of the engine and start was pushed.

Hello all. I'm back. Have not been able to get to the (still beloved) Vespa, but now I can try again. Thanks for everyone's replies.

I'm a beginner when it comes to tinkering and fixing problems myself.

I'm good checking spark plugs and other very basic things. And in answer to the first question, no I do not think the spark plug is wet.

But I'm a little scared to start messing with the fuel system.

Can someone point me in the direction of a YouTube video or some other easy-to-follow instructions for how I can check to see if the injector is squirting fuel?

Thanks.
Member
GTS 300
Joined: 02 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Madrid
Fri May 01, 2020 11:09 pm quote
Cancel that. I worked it out. Yay! And no one died.

I can confirm that yes, my fuel injector is squirting fuel.
Member
GTS 300
Joined: 02 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Madrid
Fri May 01, 2020 11:48 pm quote
And now my Vespa is starting!!!!!!

When I re-attached the fuel injector I tried starting it again -- purely in the spirit of optimism -- and it started. AMAZING.

Just one thing....

It started fine before I reattached this bracket. When I reattach this bracket the starter motor won't turn, I just get a "click". I tried three times. I guess I'm somehow reattaching it wrong. So I've replaced the screw to hold everything in place, without the bracket, and everything seems fine. The Vespa starts, every time.

So I have some questions...
• What does this bracket do?
• What am I doing wrong when attempting to reattach it that's causing the break?
• Am I okay to leave it off?

And I guess the bigger question is...
• What was wrong in the first place? Why would simply removing and then replacing the fuel injector fix the problem? Is this simply a case of good old "switch it off then switch it back on again?"

Love from Madrid,

We5ty

Vespa1.jpg

Vespa2.jpg

Enthusiast
Kymco Downtown 300i
Joined: 12 Jan 2012
Posts: 68
Location: Hillville, TN
Sat May 02, 2020 4:53 am quote
Two good pictures but what does the picture of the bracket have to do with the picture of the injector?

It looks like the bracket two squarish fingers fit into the two squarish indents on the injector....

I am with you: have no idea what this bracket is for.
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