Pre-Owned Price vs. Blue Book
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Member
2020 Primavera 150
Joined: 22 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Location: Brooklyn
Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:36 am quote
Hi All,

New to this forum and so grateful to have found it.

Quick question. I'm in NY and am in the market for a pre-owned Vespa. I've noticed that many used Vespas here are listed well above KBB valuations. Is that normal? Or a New York thing?

Specifically I was looking at a 2008 LX 150 selling for $3650. That model has a blue book at $2575. So that's around a 40% mark up by my math. Granted it's in great shape with low mileage. But wanted to get y'alls thoughts on this.

Also it's from a dealer. Do we know if dealers typically tend to negotiate on pre-owned prices? Do they set the prices high and come down? I'm curious as to why they'd go so high above KBB.

Thanks!
Grumpy Biker
1980 Vespa P200e (sold), 2002 Vespa ET4 (sold), 1949 Harley-Davidson FL
Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 4789
Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA
Mon Apr 27, 2020 8:53 am quote
KBB provides 2 different types of valuations. 1) Trade-in-value 2) Private Party Value. Neither compares to the price you can expect to pay from a dealer. The dealer has a lot of overhead and will almost always charge more for the same vehicle than you would pay a private party seller.

-Craig
Member
2017 Vespa GTS 300ie
Joined: 14 Dec 2019
Posts: 31
Location: Canton, MI
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:01 am quote
Thatís definitely dealer pricing. It took me 4 months of searching to get my first scoot. I found a 2017 GTS300 with 2800 miles for $3200 on Facebook Marketplace. I had to drive 200 miles to get it. So worth it...
Member
2021 Vespa GTS 300 Super HPE
Joined: 15 Jul 2019
Posts: 24
Location: Fairfax, Virginia, USA
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:02 am quote
Used Vespa's are always overpriced their book value if you buy from a dealer or someone you don't know. They always push that "low Mileage" because a lot of them on the market have under 3,000 on the odometer. If there is a local scooter group to contact, usually they have some leads otherwise look at Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace. I always look at physical damage (dents, rust, scratches) over mileage first.

For a 2008 Vespa 150, unless it is in mint condition and a special edition, that is a really high price for sure -- is this the one you are looking at https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2007-Vespa-LX-150-5010575624 ?

For comparison, a 2020 Vespa Sprint 150 Sport ABS is $5,749 brand new

On a side note, if your looking to spend around $3000 on a scooter, Robot from Scooter West just posted about the 2020 Piaggio Liberty 150 Review and Why Robot Thinks Itís the Best New Scooter Value
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 11615
Location: Oregon City, OR
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:53 am quote
I have always found Kelley and NADA are good ways to get ballpark ideas of value. Typically asking prices for used Vespas, dealer or private party, tend to be exaggerated in my experience. Or to say it a different way, askin' ain't gettin'.
Hooked
S150, Beo 500ie
Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 488
Location: Bermuda
Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:59 am quote
That's a good-looking scooter with low mileage for an '07, but sheesh, that dealer sure is proud of it to the extent of parody. The clearing price for an '07-'10 LX in decent condition is $1500-2200, on the higher side depending on the condition of the tires and some add-ons. Maybe a little higher if the dealer offers a warranty.

Second-hand scooterbuying is a wait-and-pounce game and can be very rewarding that way. If you can't wait, a condition which may well affect a lot of people, you're going to pay. But if you can wait around, there are always people who absolutely, positively have to rid their lives of these things: I've bought three of them under these conditions.

Their names were:
* "haven't used it since I moved here five years ago and don't want to renew the registration again" ('09 S 150, 1400 miles, stock equipment, good cosmetic condition, $1500 in Sep 18 )
* "my ex-boyfriend gave me this, we used it twice, and my new boyfriend hates having it around," ('09 Buddy 50, 750 miles, front/back baskets and windscreen, perfect cosmetics, $850 in Dec 18 )
* and, my favorite, "it's January, it's Monday, I'm moving to Hawaii on Friday, and you're the only person who has showed up in the two months I've been trying to sell this" ('08 Scarabeo 500ie, 14k miles, baskets and windscreen, average cosmetics but a lot of heavy-lift maintenance done by a previous owner, $1000 in Jan 20)

All needed new tires and the basic fluids flushed. The Buddy 50 ran acceptably but ended up needing a new carb. I added farkle to the Vespa and Buddy so they all have windscreens, top cases, and some other bits. The Beo needed some fussing with the plastics and a couple of door cables. Would this have been worth it from a dealer? No way. But if you need a high-reliability scooter and significant support from a dealer or mechanic when anything goes wrong, you should be buying models no more than 5 years old, or you will NOT have reliable use of your scooter.

Last edited by Juan_ORhea on Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
Molto Verboso
2018 GTS300 Super Sport - Donatello Vespace
Joined: 22 Dec 2012
Posts: 1450
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:06 am quote
Seems pretty high. I sold my 2012 300GTS with a ton of add-ons like leather seat; Vespa top case; Akrpovic; Brembo; Bitubo, etc., for $4,000 Canadian. This was about $3,000 USD at the time. It only had about 4,000 miles on it and had been serviced by the dealer.

Just my 2Ę
Member
2020 Primavera 150
Joined: 22 Apr 2020
Posts: 8
Location: Brooklyn
Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:42 am quote
This is all great feedback, thanks everyone.

So another question about buying from an individual as opposed to a dealer (since I'm assuming the dealer will have serviced or at least inspected everything to make sure it's up to speed, and even possibly offer warranty).

How do I know I'm getting something in great shape when I buy from an individual? Off of the service records and a visual inspection/test ride?

The last Vespa I bought came at a great price but I wound up having to put a LOT of work into it and wound up paying for it twice. Would not like to do that again.

And are your main resources Craigslist and Facebook marketplace?

Thanks!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6332
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:03 pm quote
jumpontheshag wrote:
How do I know I'm getting something in great shape when I buy from an individual? Off of the service records and a visual inspection/test ride?

And are your main resources Craigslist and Facebook marketplace?

Thanks!
You don't, unless you know what you are looking for (how to inspect it).
This is why dealers can charge more for used than private sellers; their name is on the line with every sale, so they need to be more sure things are in order. And they have the skills to make those quick fixes that can really trip up private sales.

Service records and visual inspection certainly help here.

I have bought and/or sold from dealer, off of cycletrader.com, fecebook Marketplace, and craigslist. Helps to shop around.
Member
2021 GTS 300 Racing 60ís
Joined: 22 Apr 2020
Posts: 35
Location: Arlington Heights IL
Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:58 pm quote
Vespa Resale Values
When buying from a dealer, Vespa or Cycle you have to figure that you are also paying for a piece of mind that you are getting a certified Vehicle. The time of year, model , miles and color also come into play. A dealer also knows what the similar model new sells for and thatís how they base the Used model pricing Sometimes they will follow the N.A D A guide for Retail pricing, not really the Kelly Blue book, thatís what consumers use for getting a guide of what to pay.

The most important thing is putting a Value on your time, yes you can research and shop for weeks, maybe months to find the diamond in the rough Scooter and deal. The deals are out there! But Dealers also like to turn inventory, offer financing, give Warranties and make new customers.

Mitch Fields , Owner Arlington Motorsports ď The Scooter Candy StoreĒ
Certified Used Motorcycles , Vespa,Piaggio, Kymco, Genuine,Lance, SYM
Since 1996 , Top 100 Dealer. Arlington Heights IL
Hooked
S150, Beo 500ie
Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 488
Location: Bermuda
Mon Apr 27, 2020 9:23 pm quote
Entirely fair, Mitch, but the 2008 LX scooter the OP was discussing at $3650 probably listed for about $4000 twelve years ago. Personally I wouldnít even bring my scooter in for service to a shop that uses those tactics, and would suggest that the OP steer clear as well.
Member
2021 GTS 300 Racing 60ís
Joined: 22 Apr 2020
Posts: 35
Location: Arlington Heights IL
Tue Apr 28, 2020 1:47 am quote
Used Scooters and Values , Buy what you can afford
Juan_ORhea wrote:
Entirely fair, Mitch, but the 2008 LX scooter the OP was discussing at $3650 probably listed for about $4000 twelve years ago. Personally I wouldnít even bring my scooter in for service to a shop that uses those tactics, and would suggest that the OP steer clear as well.
Juan, Honestly you should buy what you can afford and like. At the end of the day itís always the same two wheels that go rolling down the Road.

My opinion on 2008 LX 150 ( Vespas are mostly all nice if taken care of properly) Mileage, Color and options as well as condition always factor price.
That LX 150 is 12 model years old and the Newer Primavera 150s are Fuel injected which is a nice feature and have some minor cosmetic changes (dash)
150s have nice power over the 50ís If you like that Color and the options of that LX just offer the Dealer what you think is reasonable in your eyes and budget. If it doesnít seem fair to you then just keep looking, itís only April and more used Vespas will start popping up. Good Luck , make sure you get something!
Molto Verboso
2018 GTS300 Super Sport - Donatello Vespace
Joined: 22 Dec 2012
Posts: 1450
Location: Toronto, Ontario Canada
Tue Apr 28, 2020 2:44 am quote
jumpontheshag wrote:
This is all great feedback, thanks everyone.

So another question about buying from an individual as opposed to a dealer (since I'm assuming the dealer will have serviced or at least inspected everything to make sure it's up to speed, and even possibly offer warranty).

How do I know I'm getting something in great shape when I buy from an individual? Off of the service records and a visual inspection/test ride?

The last Vespa I bought came at a great price but I wound up having to put a LOT of work into it and wound up paying for it twice. Would not like to do that again.

And are your main resources Craigslist and Facebook marketplace?

Thanks!
Perhaps you can consider the possibility if meeting the seller at a dealer and offering to pay for an inspection? This way, you might be out a few $$ís and reducing your risk. Just a thought.
Molto Verboso
2012 BV 350, 2013 BMW C650 GT, 2015 Indian Chieftain
Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 1929
Location: Brentwood, TN
Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:45 am quote
jumpontheshag wrote:
(since I'm assuming the dealer will have serviced or at least inspected everything to make sure it's up to speed, and even possibly offer warranty).!
IMO, you can negotiate for these things, but I definitely would not assume the dealer has already done it.
Addicted
2016 Sprint S 150 (his), 2016 Sprint 150 Blu Gaiola (hers), 2006 GTS 250 Excalibur Gray (hers), 2006 GTS 250 Black (his), 2012 GTS 300 Daring Plum (he
Joined: 21 Oct 2016
Posts: 976
Location: Vermont
Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:51 am quote
A possibility is that if you know someone that has experience with scooters, you could take them with you to look at some.

My experience buying in 2018 used Vespas is with the pair of 2006 GTS250's with each less than 400 miles on them and the seller wanted to sell as a pair so I got a good price but they were about 4.5 hrs away. I only wanted to make one trip with a trailer to get.

Enter the wonderful people on this forum. One member offered to go look at them and face time with me. I ended up buying them. Did have to do some maintenance (fuel pump, VR) and good cleaning but it was worth it.
Ossessionato
1979 P200e
Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 2667
Location: Lock Haven, PA
Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:10 am quote
It's not scooters, but cars I'm going to talk about.

Bought a new Prius at a Toyota dealer in 2015 (it was for my daughter, she worked for it). Negotiated for the car with True Car and paid a little less than True Car quoted. I walked away relatively happy.

Two years later and the kid moved further north, necessitating a AWD. She wanted a RAV4, but on a first year teacher's salary she was going to go used. DIdn't want to muck with local private sellers who might be hiding something (probably not) and wanted the car to be top notch, so we went CPO (Certified Pre Owned). Peace of mind for Dad, a couple of free oil changes for the kid (when she came to visit).

Trade in is where they get ya... 2 year old car with 44k miles and was offered about 50% of what I paid for it. CarMax basically matched that (though their retail prices are much higher). And the RAV4? That was a rock solid price... no negotiating. And the Trade-in? That was a solid no budge offer too.

Two weeks later her "incredibly dirty" car is offered on the dealer website for 50% more than we were paid for it. They did detail it within an inch of it's life (very clean!) and probably put new ties on it, and changed the oil. I doubt they did anything else (the RAV4 was probably the same).

Used vehicles are where the money is at.... the dealer sets the buy price, and the sell price.

What to do with the 12 year old "hardly used" scooter? That's up to you. But I bet you could find a newer, fuel injected similar model for a comparable price. If you're willing to drive, the price may go down when you leave the hipster enclave known as Brooklyn, and get to an area where the prices are not neighborhood influenced.

Then again, I'm a guy who paid $2000 for a 35 year old scooter (low mileage.....).
Ossessionato
2014 Commuter BV350(45,000)/2015 Scoot Life BV350(11,000)/2010 El Diablito SH150i(30,000)
Joined: 27 Dec 2013
Posts: 2532
Location: Orange Park Florida
Tue Apr 28, 2020 4:21 am quote
jumpontheshag wrote:
The last Vespa I bought came at a great price but I wound up having to put a LOT of work into it and wound up paying for it twice. Would not like to do that again.
Sometimes labor cost exceeds parts cost. If you can't DIY this is easy to do.

Try to buy a scoot that's 6 or less years old. Old coolant/brake fluid and aged out tires are not a good thing. Even if a dealer serviced the scoot, how long was the scoot neglected before it was serviced?
Hooked
S150, Beo 500ie
Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 488
Location: Bermuda
Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:42 am quote
Re: Used Scooters and Values , Buy what you can afford
Scooter Candy Store wrote:
Honestly you should buy what you can afford and like. At the end of the day itís always the same two wheels that go rolling down the Road.
The pearl of wisdom is "don't buy what you can't afford," but the OP's question wasn't one of budget, it was of price. And I can't extract any meaning from the second sentence.

No one has disputed the OP's sense that $3650 is off-the-charts price for an '08 LX 150.
Enthusiast
Piaggio BV350
Joined: 03 Mar 2020
Posts: 50
Location: Dahlonega, GA
Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:22 am quote
IMHO, Blue Book (KBB, NADA, ETC) only means a little. Local availability and demand means everything. Every city's market is different. If you are willing to travel, you can travel to markets where prices are lower. So dont be surprised if a scooter is going for $1500 in one city that goes for $2500 just 200 miles away, and that NADA/KBB doesn't seem to match either of those....
Hooked
2016 Sprint 150
Joined: 17 Apr 2020
Posts: 105
Location: NW Washington
Tue Apr 28, 2020 7:29 am quote
rdhood wrote:
IMHO, Blue Book (KBB, NADA, ETC) only means a little. Local availability and demand means everything. Every city's market is different. If you are willing to travel, you can travel to markets where prices are lower. So dont be surprised if a scooter is going for $1500 in one city that goes for $2500 just 200 miles away, and that NADA/KBB doesn't seem to match either of those....
Seems I always find a bargain after I buy.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 11615
Location: Oregon City, OR
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:17 pm quote
If an LX150 looks good to you, the last several years of that model ('11-'14) were fuel injected and I bet those scooters aren't priced much more used than the carbed LX.
Sponsor
Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6542
Location: NWAOK
Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:33 pm quote
Juan_ORhea wrote:
Entirely fair, Mitch, but the 2008 LX scooter the OP was discussing at $3650 probably listed for about $4000 twelve years ago. Personally I wouldnít even bring my scooter in for service to a shop that uses those tactics, and would suggest that the OP steer clear as well.
Because they would want money to fix it? I'm not sure what your problem with this particular dealership and their service department is at this point.

KBB and the Nada books are guides for lenders, so they don't advance 10K for a bike that's worth 4k. They are not a guide to actual retail prices in any given market. While a lot of people are running off about how much this bike is worth, someone is going to buy it, and probably be very happy with it.
There are vehicles that you can buy back of book, meaning for a lot less than what the book says they are worth, all day long. There are vehicles that you can almost never buy for anything near what the book says they are worth, like used Gold Wings, and not so long ago, anything by HD except sportsters. Vespas usually retail over book. I can sell at least three red Vespa GTS 250s way way way over book in less time than I could sell one silver one with lower miles back of book. That's just the way it is, and that's why I hate silver Vespas. Yes, you can find other Vespas for less, but you can't ever find that exact bike. Another thing to keep in mind is that dealers can get someone financed on that bike. Most people who sell a bike out of their garage can't. That's also worth something. So it doesn't matter what you paid for a Buddy 50, some old Hodaka Wombat someone had in boxes in their garage for fifty years, or even a Kymco Like, the industry's scooter of the year and apparently a piece of junk, according to one industry expert, to someone who is looking at that bike. There is nothing wrong with buying clapped out old scooters and bringing them back to life, just like there is nothing wrong with learning to service your own bike. But the vast majority of people who buy Vespas don't want to become Vespa mechanics. They just want to ride them and have fun. That's what whoever buys this bike owns. What is interesting on most forums is the price disparity between what people want to sell their bikes for and what they tell you bikes other people are selling are worth, sight unseen.
So OP, if you find a bike you like, and you're happy with the deal, buy it. Then put a Malossi big bore kit on it. (Sorry, it's a habit.)
Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 17

Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:46 am quote
Pegasus Prime wrote:
Used Vespa's are always overpriced their book value if you buy from a dealer or someone you don't know. They always push that "low Mileage" because a lot of them on the market have under 3,000 on the odometer. If there is a local scooter group to contact, usually they have some leads otherwise look at Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace. I always look at physical damage (dents, rust, scratches) over mileage first.

For a 2008 Vespa 150, unless it is in mint condition and a special edition, that is a really high price for sure -- is this the one you are looking at https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2007-Vespa-LX-150-5010575624 ?

For comparison, a 2020 Vespa Sprint 150 Sport ABS is $5,749 brand new

On a side note, if your looking to spend around $3000 on a scooter, Robot from Scooter West just posted about the 2020 Piaggio Liberty 150 Review and Why Robot Thinks Itís the Best New Scooter Value
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Last edited by george653 on Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:26 am; edited 1 time in total
Addicted
BV 350
Joined: 22 Nov 2016
Posts: 843
Location: Nebraska
Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:48 am quote
Problem
Problem is, in some parts of the country (perhaps many) there are very few choices for used scooters. Sometimes you just have to pay what they are asking, if you want to buy a scooter. Dealers know that, and determine price accordingly.

So the real question is, are you willing to pay that price for that scooter, or keep looking?

A local dealer had a couple of Aprilia scooters that I was interested in, but similarly was asking unreasonable prices, and was unwilling to negotiate. So I walked away, and ran across my BV350 a couple of months later.

My SH150 was on Craiglist at a somewhat high price for a couple of months, so when I talked to the private seller, I low-balled him a bit, and he accepted. A local dealer had one with more miles, less-well-equipped, for a considerably higher price. Dealer still had it 6 months later.

Ultimately, things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. Since I am cheap, I'd keep my eyes open for other scooters, and if the dealer still has it in a month or two go back and try to renegotiate. Unfortunately, with spring coming on, the dealer may be optimistic for a sale.
Molto Verboso
2018 LIBERTY 150S, 2013 Kymco LIKE200iLX
Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 1334
Location: Ohio
Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:59 am quote
Pegasus Prime wrote:
Used Vespa's are always overpriced their book value if you buy from a dealer or someone you don't know. They always push that "low Mileage" because a lot of them on the market have under 3,000 on the odometer. If there is a local scooter group to contact, usually they have some leads otherwise look at Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace. I always look at physical damage (dents, rust, scratches) over mileage first.

For a 2008 Vespa 150, unless it is in mint condition and a special edition, that is a really high price for sure -- is this the one you are looking at https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2007-Vespa-LX-150-5010575624 ?

For comparison, a 2020 Vespa Sprint 150 Sport ABS is $5,749 brand new

On a side note, if your looking to spend around $3000 on a scooter, Robot from Scooter West just posted about the 2020 Piaggio Liberty 150 Review and Why Robot Thinks Itís the Best New Scooter Value
A new Liberty150i out-the-door price will be $4000, not 3.
Robby doesn't mention that.
O.S.
Addicted
2015 Vespa GTS300 Super
Joined: 26 Sep 2017
Posts: 536
Location: Connecticut
Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:48 pm quote
There seems to be a lot of variance in the cost of used Vespas in my area. Personally, over the last five years, I've gotten two very good deals on previously-owned, low-mileage GTS 300s here in Connecticut; one was from a dealer (albeit a non-Vespa dealer) and the other from a private seller.
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