I have a brand new very old Piaggio MP3
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Member
Piaggio MP3
Joined: 13 Jun 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas City
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:48 am quote
The tilt lock bleed procedure I found was:

Tilt lock hydraulic bleeding, works every time.
For 2008-09 MP3 250

1. Remove the windshield Y-shaped trim
2. Remove windshield 6 screws
3. Remove black plastic shield behind windshield 4 screws
4. Note tilt lock actuator, look for black plastic L-shaped door to the lower right, just above where the master cylinder bolts to the right bottom of the actuator.
5. Push left edge of the door to right pops right off, exposing the actuator to master cylinder linkage, One 5mm allen screw. Put a ratchet, extension and Allen wrench socket into the link bolt, genitally rotate counterclockwise, watch the direction the link want to move toward inside of the housing, stop find something to wedge between the link and interior housing side wall to keep link from twisting or moving. Remove screw.
6. There is a cross bar above this location where the windshield rests, stick a screwdriver downward behind and into the lower part of the master cylinder portion of the link, you will use this arrangement to pump the plunger down to create pressure just as you do with your brake master cylinder leaver.
7. Wrap a rag around the tilt lock next to the front shock, note brake bleeder on top 10mm.
8. Very carefully push down keeping the master cylinder link moving in a straight direction. When it gets to the bottom of the stroke hold pressure as you loosen the bleeder, continue to hold as the air/brake fluid #4 brake fluid bleeds out, it will go further than you think, tighten bleeder, release pressure on master cylinder link.
9. Do above till clear fluid comes out without air in both sides, KEEP THE RESERVOIR FULL AT ALL TIMES, you will note the height of the master cylinder will eventually rest at a higher position and be firm when pressed.
10. Reinstall the master cylinder tilt actuator link screw, careful to block it's movement, do not let it twist.
11. Turn on ignition, you should now be able to engage and disengage at will with only the ignition on. NO LOUD NASTY HORN BLOWING. Reassemble in reverse order.

Any thoughts?
Member
Piaggio MP3
Joined: 13 Jun 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas City
Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:54 am quote
I was looking at a youtube post on replacing the wheel bearings, do any of you have a thought about pulling the wheel and re-packing the bearings with new grease?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8716
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:15 pm quote
SrWalterR wrote:
I was looking at a youtube post on replacing the wheel bearings, do any of you have a thought about pulling the wheel and re-packing the bearings with new grease?
Sealed bearing, can't grease them.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 39247
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:56 pm quote
SrWalterR wrote:
The tilt lock bleed procedure I found was:

Tilt lock hydraulic bleeding, works every time.
For 2008-09 MP3 250

1. Remove the windshield Y-shaped trim
[big snip]
11. Turn on ignition, you should now be able to engage and disengage at will with only the ignition on. NO LOUD NASTY HORN BLOWING. Reassemble in reverse order.

Any thoughts?
Don't. Far, far, FAR easier doing the reverse bleed as Web-Tech outlined.
Hooked
2009 MP3 400, 2004 Honda ST1300
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 275
Location: Sayre, PA
Wed Jun 17, 2020 3:15 pm quote
I agree. In principal it should work, but messing with the tilt-lock linkage seems like asking for trouble.

Reverse bleed from the bottom can be done without disassembling anything.

Front wheel bearings are all or nothing. Do check them. One of mine was bad at relatively low mileage and needed to be replaced. Front wheel hub is another one of those Italian "what were they thinking?" designs. The outer bearing is captured with the axle nut and takes vertical and horizontal loads, the inner bearing just sort of floats on the spindle to handle vertical loads. Also be gentle with the front wheels bolts (lug nuts?). They're very brittle. I snapped one off way too easy.

I'm pretty sure my scoot had a separate fuel filter. Then again maybe that was the generator. Too many different projects going on in the garage.
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 (sold) MP3 500 (current)
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 21610
Location: Nashville, Indiana
Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:35 am quote
Apologies if I missed it but those tires are very old and all three should be replaced if you haven't yet. They may look OK but they are dried out and will fail catastrophically at speed which, as you can imagine, is not fun.

Happy riding.
Member
Piaggio MP3
Joined: 13 Jun 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas City
Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:57 pm quote
HI again
OK, started the MP3 and it started like it wanted to run... WOW. I rode it for about two miles and the check engine light came on. Checked engine oil, trans oil, and coolant and all ok. Then I waited about 5 minutes and re-started the bike and it was hard to start and needed a little throttle to stay on. However, the check engine light did not come on.

Anyone have any ideas, a dealer is about 40 miles away and really do not want to ride that far with the check engine light on.
Hooked
50cc Beo, BigBeo
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 272
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:06 pm quote
Highly possible that it can't hold idle because of dirty idle bypass.
Hooked
2009 MP3 400, 2004 Honda ST1300
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 275
Location: Sayre, PA
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:15 am quote
I agree. I haven't had to deal with it yet but that's apparently "a thing" with these engines. Something in the throttle body gets clogged and you can spray it with some sort of cleaner.

A little searching of the subject will get you the info you need.
Member
Piaggio MP3
Joined: 13 Jun 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas City
Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:34 am quote
OK, cleaned the carburetor and burped the coolant a little more and all is well!! This thing is a blast to ride! Not my Victory, but great fun for around the neighborhood.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 39247
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:05 pm quote
SrWalterR wrote:
OK, cleaned the carburetor throttle body and burped the coolant a little more and all is well!! This thing is a blast to ride! Not my Victory, but great fun for around the neighborhood.
FTFY.
Hooked
2009 MP3 400, 2004 Honda ST1300
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 275
Location: Sayre, PA
Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:38 am quote
Awesome! Happy to hear you got it sorted.
Enthusiast
BV250, BV500
Joined: 10 Mar 2018
Posts: 90
Location: SFBay
Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:57 pm quote
You might want to have the dealer check with Piaggio using their computerized diagnostic system to see if there are updates and patches to the firmware running things. I did that on a 2008 500 and cured every running issue.
Member
Piaggio MP3
Joined: 13 Jun 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas City
Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:13 pm quote
Hi guys... well a couple of weeks in and finally got the bike registered, insured... so today I took it out for a real ride. About 16 miles out the engine started dying and then when I let it down to idle, it died and would not start. I waited 30 minutes and it started and ran for 2 miles and then died again. Battery (which is brand new) was drained and had to call for help. The guy charged the battery off is truck for five minutes and I was able to make it the last mile home. Put it on a trickle charger and let it go for a while. The charger is saying the battery is dead so I will let it go over night. It felt like a fuel problem, but I think it actually might be electrical. Any thoughts wold be appreciated.
Enthusiast
Piaggio MP3 ie 400
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 99
Location: Sydney
Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:25 pm quote
SrWalterR wrote:
Hi guys... well a couple of weeks in and finally got the bike registered, insured... so today I took it out for a real ride. About 16 miles out the engine started dying and then when I let it down to idle, it died and would not start. I waited 30 minutes and it started and ran for 2 miles and then died again. Battery (which is brand new) was drained and had to call for help. The guy charged the battery off is truck for five minutes and I was able to make it the last mile home. Put it on a trickle charger and let it go for a while. The charger is saying the battery is dead so I will let it go over night. It felt like a fuel problem, but I think it actually might be electrical. Any thoughts wold be appreciated.
I don't know what the problem is, but from my first advice, is to take it to a dealership and let them go over it and do the maintenance needed, then you have a good start, after that you can do your own services. Good luck.
Member
Piaggio MP3
Joined: 13 Jun 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas City
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:36 pm quote
The plot thickens...
1) Let the battery recharge while disconnected from the bike.
2) Reconnected it and with the key off, I read 13.6V at the battery terminals.
3) Started the bike and the voltage ran down (yes - down) to 12.3V at the terminals.
4) Rev'ed up the engine and that had no effect on the voltage at the terminals.

OUCH!

Next:
5) Pulled the right side panel off and found that stupid three terminal connector to the stator.
6) Ohm'ed out the stator All readings were between 0.3 and 0.4 ohms. Stator should be good.
7) Ohm'ed the yellow wires to ground and between each other and no short to ground (~500K Ohm) and the impedance between the terminals is 1.2M Ohm give or take.

I have to think I have a bad regulator. ANy advise would be appreciated.
Member
Piaggio MP3
Joined: 13 Jun 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas City
Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:37 pm quote
Forgot. I also checked the current draw on the battery when the bike was turned of and it is about 0.89mA.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 39247
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:04 pm quote
Search this forum for "hidden fuse".

Yes, there is one, inside the starter relay. There is also a spare fuse there - do NOT be confused by that.

It is quite possible the connections to the 'hidden fuse' are corroded and finished.

That fuse is between the o/p of the stator and the battery. If it is broken, or the connections corroded beyond repair, then the battery won't charge.

How do I know? Another Fuoco hidden fuse story...
And the pictures:
http://www.wotmeworry.org.uk/fuoco_solenoid/
Member
Piaggio MP3
Joined: 13 Jun 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas City
Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:51 am quote
OK, just spent hours looking for the "Hidden Relay" and cannot find it. Must be well hidden! I looked at the drawings in the service manual and it would seem that they are also intent on keeping it hidden.Whoever wrote that thing really needs to check their meds!

I looked online to see what it looks like and either it is a brown little box, or it is a black cylindrical thing with a fuse on top - no joy locating anything that looks close.

Can you tell me what pieces I have to remove to get a view of this mystery piece?
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 324
Location: Belgium
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:57 am quote
On the 250 Mp3, the starter relay is located on the right side under the saddle/helmet bay-front area. See pic below

Wth the bike idling, you need to see around 13V and should jump up to approx. 14.5V as soon as revs rise.

Since you have a early MP3, you've probably got one of those dreaded Ducati regulators that have a 99.x% failure rate.

The regulator is located in the tail section of the scoot by the right rear light. It is the square box with the heatsink. You will have to take the tupperware off to get to it.

reg_132.jpg

labeled_118.jpg



Last edited by sbaert on Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total
Member
Piaggio MP3
Joined: 13 Jun 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Kansas City
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 am quote
The "tuppersare"... LOL great name for it. I found the regulator. As best I was able I tested the stator by Ohm'ing it out and looking at the raw output when th engine was running. It seems to be working fine. The output from the regulator is about 0.7 V on all pins when running so I figure it is toast. Looks like a fairly easy swap out (once you figure how to disconnect that three terminal monster) so I will order one from my local shop on Tuesday when they come back to work. Do you have any feeling about a MOSFET version Vs the old diode version. I figure the MOSFET model is a synchronous rectifier which is always more efficient, but I am not hanging a bunch of electronics on this bike so maybe a older version is fine.
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 324
Location: Belgium
Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:26 am quote
The easiest way to to deal with the regulator plug is to use a car trim removal tool.

Use the tool to remove the plastic pin that holds the connector to the frame. That gives you access to the connector.

I'd just get a fresh original Piaggio replacement. Try to avoid the Ducati branded version. Piaggio switched over to a Chinese regulator (around 2010???) and those are robust.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8716
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:01 am quote
SrWalterR wrote:
The "tuppersare"... LOL great name for it. I found the regulator. As best I was able I tested the stator by Ohm'ing it out and looking at the raw output when th engine was running. It seems to be working fine. The output from the regulator is about 0.7 V on all pins when running so I figure it is toast. Looks like a fairly easy swap out (once you figure how to disconnect that three terminal monster) so I will order one from my local shop on Tuesday when they come back to work. Do you have any feeling about a MOSFET version Vs the old diode version. I figure the MOSFET model is a synchronous rectifier which is always more efficient, but I am not hanging a bunch of electronics on this bike so maybe a older version is fine.
You pulled the fuse out and looked at the connections?
My MP3 sat for 5 year because I thought I had a bad stater and it turned out to be a corroded fuse holder on the relay. Replaced the relay and good to go.
If you have not pulled the fuse out you have not checked the fuse.
And make sure you are not looking at the spare fuse that is in the relays rubber cover/holder.
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