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Attila,

I had the good fortune of visiting the Ferrari Factory in 1973. They demonstrated how they custom build the drivers seat for the new owner.

I do not even know if they allow tours anymore. Two of us had a guide
who walked us through Ferrari's in production. They also had a small
museum. There was also over night accommodations for new owners
picking up their new Ferrari.

To this day, I have Ferrari Stickers on my car and scooter.

Roberto Di Napoli
aka Bob Copeland Minnesota
Notice the Ferrari Stickers on the side.
Notice the Ferrari Stickers on the side.
OP
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Molto Verboso
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Update: Dropped it off on June 23rd and the shop said the gear box rear seal on the drum side dis-lodged, dumping a good amount of gear oil and letting water in. So it appears the the primary/secondary and final drive gears and related shafts are shot. And all the bearings. It's being evaluated for warranty by Piaggio last I heard but the dealer says not to worry. I miss my little run-about so much! The triked Silverwing is gonna make me a arm wrestling champ!
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Re: Ferrari Factory near Modena
Bob Copeland wrote:
Attila,

I had the good fortune of visiting the Ferrari Factory in 1973. They demonstrated how they custom build the drivers seat for the new owner.

I do not even know if they allow tours anymore. Two of us had a guide
who walked us through Ferrari's in production. They also had a small
museum. There was also over night accommodations for new owners
picking up their new Ferrari.

To this day, I have Ferrari Stickers on my car and scooter.

Roberto Di Napoli
aka Bob Copeland Minnesota
Bob, when you want to visit the Ferrari factory, tell me, I have "knowledge" ... You know how things work here.
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UTC quote
Dooglas wrote:
Bueller wrote:
Your <whatever> is fine for two up riding. If it wasn't they wouldn't have equipped it for two people.
Somehow, I don't think that is the test for 2-up capability. There are a lot of scooters out there with a double seat, that really aren't suitable for that task.
That's brilliant

First, I specifically referenced the Liberty 150, not any other Scooter. Second, in the photo you posted the scooter does not appear to have a two person seat or passenger pegs.

Compare that to the bike I was specifically talking about. Are you suggesting this isn't designed to carry two people?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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UTC quote
Stromrider wrote:
jerryd wrote:
Madison Sully wrote:
jerryd wrote:
but the MP3 500 is fraught with them. horrible operational design flaws. belt flutter that vibrates bike, belt chatter that is impossible to live with, and clutch squeal like there is a seal out back. you can get rid of chatter with higher rate clutch springs or different clutch. but its a huge sacrifice in low speed drivability.
Either you got a lemon or I got a peach.
I have had none of those issues over a bunch of miles.
you just dont like what I have to say. or you are not observant of your machine. the problems in the 500 are well documented. and my friends beo 500 with same cvt has all the same problems. spent days reading threads before attempting to improve. so I know very well what I speak.
Jerry, I know many folks who have the MP3's of all sizes but especially the 500's of all years. We ride together often. None of them have issues like you seem to have, and I've serviced and ridden near all of them. I think maybe the issue is you like to mess with them so yours is not standard. I took an MP3 500 two up to Brighton a year so ago. It had over 70,000 miles on the clock and it was so smooth. Very nice bikes in my opinion but can be expensive to run if you don't do your own maintenance.
No such problems on any of the Scarabeo or BV 500s we have owned or the ones including MP3s owned by people I've ridden with.
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Probably an unfortunate case ...
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Bueller wrote:
Bueller wrote:
Your <whatever> is fine for two up riding.
First, I specifically referenced the Liberty 150, not any other Scooter.
Huh???
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Molto Verboso
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sc00ter wrote:
Update: Dropped it off on June 23rd and the shop said the gear box rear seal on the drum side dis-lodged, dumping a good amount of gear oil and letting water in. So it appears the the primary/secondary and final drive gears and related shafts are shot. And all the bearings. It's being evaluated for warranty by Piaggio last I heard but the dealer says not to worry. I miss my little run-about so much! The triked Silverwing is gonna make me a arm wrestling champ!
Any reason given why they think this happened? Seals are usually pressed in pretty tight and to just dislodge sounds unusual in a gearbox.
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UTC quote
Stromrider wrote:
Motovista wrote:
griffin1108 wrote:
As for Japanese scooters, the Xmax which got some good press actually is assembled in Indonesia if I read the VIN correctly. Also, most of the press reviews comparing the Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki scooters with Piaggio say the Piaggio units have better fit and finish. As for durability, that is a function of maintenance, use and luck.
LOL, where have you ever read that Piaggio scooters have better fit and finish than the Japanese scooters?
The XMax was built by Yamaha at a Yamaha factory. They also build ATVs in Georgia. At Yamaha factories. There isn't some Indonesian company making a bunch of scooters that Yamaha slaps their stickers on and loads into a truck.
The fit and finish of MODERN Piaggio and especially the Vespa range is extremely good. It's widely been written about in all the motorcycle mags for years over this side of the pond, and it is a very noticeable feature of the bikes. With our wet and salty road conditions the Vespas get hammered. My GTS300 is finished off as good as my new Burgman 400 without any question at all. My Vespa doesn't suffer from the same engine management and transmission issues as the Burgmans either.

The Burgman does have a weak spot though. The Burgman trellis frames rust very badly unless you do something about it early on. It has very poor quality paint applied with many bare places. Welding is not good either and we used to get many complaints. I haven't seen one yet that hasn't rusted badly under all that plastic. Yet we used to get loads and load of rust free Vespas of every age come in with very high mileages. Not anti Suzuki by any means. I've had loads of them. But it just goes to show how Vespa has not just caught up, but is a leader now.
I went peeking into my new Japanese built Burgman 400 ....and was saddened by the all of the rust at so many of the frame weld spots.
I quickly went to work with ACF-50 ....still it was not a pleasant thing to find on my new scooter!
The corrosion which occurred under outside belt cover was amazing. It had never been ridden in salt. I scrubbed down that big metal pan and sprayed it flat black. The nuts on the oil filter cap seemed to be dissolving as I looked at them.
ALL of this on a scooter less than a year old.
Made my Chinese built Kymco look even more impressive for build quality.
O.S.
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Dooglas wrote:
Bueller wrote:
Bueller wrote:
Your <whatever> is fine for two up riding.
First, I specifically referenced the Liberty 150, not any other Scooter.
Huh???
YOU inserted the word "whatever".

This was my original comment:
Bueller wrote:
Your liberty is fine for two up riding.
You can go back and look if you don't remember.
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UTC quote
kz1000ST wrote:
sc00ter wrote:
Wife has seen the following give us trouble:
Suzuki Burgman 200 constantly having transmission issues.
Qlink (CFMoto) fall apart before 5000 miles. To be expected.
Yamaha Zuma 125 have electrical problems from a unprotected loom.
SYM CityCom loose a end bearing at 30,000ish miles.
Several 2-stroke Zuma's leave me stranded. (Modded, so normal.)
I'm forgetting a few more but I just woke up.
Yet a friend has a ratty old Suzuki Savage 650 (C40) that runs like a top. And it has more miles on it than any scooter we ever owned.
When I picked the Liberty it was because it was simple. No radiator, rear drum brake. 2 less things to fail or give me problems. Again, I think the gear box oil leak is just a fluke. It rattled her remaining faith in scooters.
The problem you may be facing is why the seal failed. If you're lucky it's just a failed seal. If not, the bearing failed, took out the seal and possibly scoured the axle shaft. I don't know how often you ride two up but you may have uncovered a design flaw unknown till now.

Motorcycles are generally more robust by design. There are some paper mache bikes out there but they are few. My 1983 Kawasaki and 1991 Honda run solidly but they are based on well developed engines. What you should do is try a Honda Cub and put a dual seat on it. They last forever throughout the world.
Could very well be a "design flaw", as you suggest.
However - I would suggest that after building some 900,000 of these Libertys over the past 20 years - Piaggio might now have things fairly well sorted.

But, who knows....?
O.S.
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Rust on Frame of Suzuki Burgman 400
OldScooot,

Something is wrong here - unusual exposure or something. I have
a 13 year old Burgman 400 with 45,000 miles. It looks like the
day I bought it. Like many of you, I do take pride in keeping both
my scoots looking great.

Something happened before you took delivery. With the multiple
rust locations, it seems as if the unit was in a flood or stored outside
in it's shipping crate and rain saturated - not allowing it to dry
quick.

I have even driven mine through massive rain on extended rides.
None of the rust you are describing.

Again, some exposure conditioned occurred. Sorry, it is a great machine.

Bob Copeland
Four day heat wave here in Minnesota.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Many scooter owners (also maintenance workshops) wash with aggressive chemicals and use high pressure car wash lances; this reckless use blows up the paint and especially where it sticks poorly during the painting process, corners and places that are difficult to reach by the sprayer.
But the cleaning lance also pushes the water into mechanical places, I see them as "do-it-yourself cleaners" who wash their scooters insisting over and over again with the perfidious lance in places that cannot be reached by the sponge ...
Tell me I'm telling the fake.
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UTC quote
This bike was a heated discussion between Martin , Barb n I today . I buy a few bikes a year and this coronovirious season has been a bust . Why would my wife not allow me to purchase a fine machine like the Liberty 150S ? I rode 150 miles on my new 110 honda this weekend and a few more ponies would be nice , So now I need a Liberty 150 so go with the rest of the fleet of scooters n motorcycles . So if you want a clean Scarabeo 500 one is going up for sale ?
OP
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Molto Verboso
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I still miss my Liberty while it awaits parts but I know its in good hands and they'll get it taken care of. And with the Covid craziness I have a feeling I'll be waiting awhile. I still got the triked Silverwing and wife and I purchased a new to us 2016 Honda Fit. Highlighter pearl yellow! We took a Miata out and it was just to small for us. I'm not a spring chicken anymore but it was fun to drive. The Fit is just a better car for us. Still haven't touched the 98 Yamaha Zuma but I have 2 boxes of new parts for it to make it like new again.

I'm not gonna lie, I really want to see the new Honda ADV 150 scooter in person. Just curious. But the Liberty is a great scooter. Comfy, quick enough and good looking.
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UTC quote
Re: Rust on Frame of Suzuki Burgman 400
Bob Copeland wrote:
OldScooot,

Something is wrong here - unusual exposure or something. I have
a 13 year old Burgman 400 with 45,000 miles. It looks like the
day I bought it. Like many of you, I do take pride in keeping both
my scoots looking great.

Something happened before you took delivery. With the multiple
rust locations, it seems as if the unit was in a flood or stored outside
in it's shipping crate and rain saturated - not allowing it to dry
quick.

I have even driven mine through massive rain on extended rides.
None of the rust you are describing.

Again, some exposure conditioned occurred. Sorry, it is a great machine.

Bob Copeland
Four day heat wave here in Minnesota.
My Burgman was never powerwashed.
Whatever caused its ills...it's happily gone.
Sold it to purchase the new Liberty.
It's not Honda quality. ...nor priced like one.......but not far off for fit and finish.
Have put more miles on the pretty Liberty than did the dull gray Burg.
O.S.
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I am reading in various Italian magazines in the two-wheel sector that Piaggio is reorganizing its products, improving even more assemblies and finishes; a recent test of the new Medley rated it better than the Honda SH, both as an engine and as an assembly. It is true that the world is turning upside down ...
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UTC quote
Cleaning your Scoot
Attila,

I think you may be correct - chemicals and high pressure car wash lances.

Here is my cleaning routine:

1. I use the garden hose (no high pressure) to wet the machine.
2. I then soft brush (on extended hand pole) with mild soap.
3. Again wash off soap with garden hose.
4. I use my electric leaf blower to dry the machine.
5. I spray (section by section) the scoot with "Wizard Mist-N-Shine" and
then buff it with a soft hand towel. Works on all surfaces. Makes the
scoot look like the day you bought it.
6. I use Vinegar Windex on the windscreen. The regular windex will
cause a chemical reaction and eventually dull the screen.

I am sure many others have different cleaning routines. My big break
through was the leaf blower to dry it and the Wizard Mist-N-Shine that
works on all surfaces.

Ciao Amigo,

Bob Copeland

Bob Copeland
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
Yamaha SMax. Japanese quality with an engine that gets it down the road quickly.
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Molto Verboso
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What's the word on parts arrival and warranty coverage?
OP
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I spoke with the dealer a few days after dropping it off (June 13th) and they said it was being covered and not worry about it. But with Covid messing everything up there is no ETA on parts needed to fix it. Some local dealers are having the same issue with parts and like I said I trust the dealership. Just a bad time to break down.

I still miss my Liberty just like anyone with a broken scooter or motorcycle. Anymore time on this trike I'm riding and I'll be like Sly Stalone in OTT! Heck, I gotta truck stop not far from the house! Gonna go arm wrestle some truckers! I also might try a night rebuild on my 98 Zuma. Its much cooler when the sun goes down!
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sc00ter wrote:
I spoke with the dealer a few days after dropping it off (June 13th) and they said it was being covered and not worry about it. But with Covid messing everything up there is no ETA on parts needed to fix it. Some local dealers are having the same issue with parts and like I said I trust the dealership. Just a bad time to break down.

I still miss my Liberty just like anyone with a broken scooter or motorcycle. Anymore time on this trike I'm riding and I'll be like Sly Stalone in OTT! Heck, I gotta truck stop not far from the house! Gonna go arm wrestle some truckers! I also might try a night rebuild on my 98 Zuma. Its much cooler when the sun goes down!
In a supreme act of sacrifice you could think of buying a Beverly (or an X Max 300 as a spare tire... ) Ouch! Do not put me in the pillory in the public square.
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Keep us in the loop. In the meantime fix the Zuma.
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<duplicate>
⚠️ Last edited by Dooglas on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC quote
sc00ter wrote:
I spoke with the dealer a few days after dropping it off (June 13th) and they said it was being covered and not worry about it. But with Covid messing everything up there is no ETA on parts needed to fix it. Some local dealers are having the same issue with parts and like I said I trust the dealership. Just a bad time to break down.
Thanks for keeping us up to date on your repairs. Glad to hear it seems to be coming together, even if not as quickly as you'd prefer. We are definitely rooting for you.
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UTC quote
Dooglas wrote:
Bueller wrote:
This was my original comment:
Bueller wrote:
Your liberty is fine for two up riding.
You can go back and look if you don't remember.
I think you understood my point and are intentionally avoiding it. To determine whether any given scooter will work well for 2-up riding - you don't simply look for a double seat. Many 50cc scooters have a double seat - and are capable of carrying 2 people down a street in a beach town at 25 mph. If you are actually selecting a scooter for regular 2-up use; then you consider suspension, seat comfort for two, braking, acceleration and top end for the intended use especially on hills, durability for this use, etc. Of course a key is "for the intended use". When I say I would prefer a GT/GTS or larger - I am envisioning an intended use which involves riding on rural roads and 2-lane highways at the speed of other traffic. That is how I use my GTS.
Yea, sure, that's what I'm doing. You figured me out. You win the internet
OP
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
THAT WAS HORRIBLE! So I'm putting the Zuma back together and I gotta get a bunch of nasty grease and oil off of the motor. I like clean stuff. I had a oil supply line seeping and a small exhaust gasket leak on a horizontal 2-stroke. Big mess. This is the good part! Its 100 degrees in the garage (heat index) and I got a floor dryer for a fan blowing on me. I'm trying to get this gunk out from my stator assembly with Brake-Clean. Spraying away and I notice my cat leaves the garage and hits the door. He's old so I didn't think nothing of it. Start spraying away again. Suicidal Tendencies-Controlled by Hatred just started. I like that album. Spray some more and I notice the room goes sideways, the loud radio sounds weird and thats it? Next thing I know I wake up and the album has ended. I still feel weird. I came in, got fussed at by the wife and took a long shower. I'm known to do stupid things but I've never huffed anything. What a crappy experience. Don't use chemicals in a poorly ventilated space! Bonus: I got the wrong pilot jets, so the Zuma waits for parts again.
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sc00ter wrote:
THAT WAS HORRIBLE! So I'm putting the Zuma back together and I gotta get a bunch of nasty grease and oil off of the motor. I like clean stuff. I had a oil supply line seeping and a small exhaust gasket leak on a horizontal 2-stroke. Big mess. This is the good part! Its 100 degrees in the garage (heat index) and I got a floor dryer for a fan blowing on me. I'm trying to get this gunk out from my stator assembly with Brake-Clean. Spraying away and I notice my cat leaves the garage and hits the door. He's old so I didn't think nothing of it. Start spraying away again. Suicidal Tendencies-Controlled by Hatred just started. I like that album. Spray some more and I notice the room goes sideways, the loud radio sounds weird and thats it? Next thing I know I wake up and the album has ended. I still feel weird. I came in, got fussed at by the wife and took a long shower. I'm known to do stupid things but I've never huffed anything. What a crappy experience. Don't use chemicals in a poorly ventilated space! Bonus: I got the wrong pilot jets, so the Zuma waits for parts again.
Bad trip!
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Yeah, that's great..... BUT the cat....is the cat OK?!!!

O.S.
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UTC quote
I would be wary of carrying a passenger on a 150. Not possible for me. I weigh 240 pounds, and that is almost enough to overload a 150. I tried carrying my 130 pound daughter on the back of my 750cc cruiser motorcycle, and the rear suspension completely bottomed out. Obviously I'm on the heavy side. But I don't see how too much weight could cause a blown oil seal. It could cause some dangerous handling characteristics however.
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... I did not understand if the cat had also been affected by toxic substances ...
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Molto Verboso
2023 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1135
Location: Norfolk, VA
 
Molto Verboso
2023 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1135
Location: Norfolk, VA
UTC quote
Cat is all good. People used canary birds in coal mines back in the day, and I guess that was his way of warning me of to many toxic fumes in the garage! He's super old and does weird things. I think he belonged to Jesus before I got him. But I think he started feeling bad hence him leaving the garage and walking into the door. But he's back to his annoying self again.

I ordered the correct parts to get the Zuma back up and running. I'm getting tired of arm wrestling training on the trike. Curious to see if the cat comes back out to the garage to help putting the Zuma back together. This cat is a slow learner but the toxic cleaning is done now.
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
2023 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1135
Location: Norfolk, VA
 
Molto Verboso
2023 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1135
Location: Norfolk, VA
UTC quote
My Liberty is ready to be rescued! All ready and waiting! Covered under warranty. I'm trying tp find someone to take me up there and I'll ride it back. Will post my findings when I get the repair slip. I'm so excited!
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
Yesterday on an FB group i saw a Honda Giorno scooter for the first time ... Wow! A cross between Vespa and Lambretta in japanese sauce.
@attila avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@attila avatar
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8291
Location: Latina (Italy)
UTC quote
sc00ter wrote:
My Liberty is ready to be rescued! All ready and waiting! Covered under warranty. I'm trying tp find someone to take me up there and I'll ride it back. Will post my findings when I get the repair slip. I'm so excited!
It would be useful to know what they did to him, we are also curious about the causes.
@kz1000st avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1883
Location: Hyde Park, New York
 
Molto Verboso
@kz1000st avatar
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1883
Location: Hyde Park, New York
UTC quote
sc00ter wrote:
My Liberty is ready to be rescued! All ready and waiting! Covered under warranty. I'm trying tp find someone to take me up there and I'll ride it back. Will post my findings when I get the repair slip. I'm so excited!
Cool. You should still fix the Zuma. Having a spare is always a good idea.
@jixaw avatar
UTC

Hooked
2003 Vespa ET2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 449
Location: Cambridge, MA
 
Hooked
@jixaw avatar
2003 Vespa ET2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 449
Location: Cambridge, MA
UTC quote
my girl prefers to ride pillion on the ET2 rather than the motorcycle...the motorcycle is a triumph tt600 sportbike with a tiny rear seat and racing shocks...i go a lot slower on the 50cc too
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
2023 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1135
Location: Norfolk, VA
 
Molto Verboso
2023 Genuine Buddy 125
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1135
Location: Norfolk, VA
UTC quote
The Liberty is back in my hands. I almost bought a used Honda Silverwing and told the shop to put it up for sale. But riding the Liberty back 100 miles in the semi-bad heat made me realize its the perfect scooter for my needs. I realized that I got no paperwork about what repairs where done as it was covered 100% under warranty, but it seems to be fine. Its nice to be reunited with my Liberty again!
UTC

Hooked
2016 Sprint 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 105
Location: NW Washington
 
Hooked
2016 Sprint 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 105
Location: NW Washington
UTC quote
A Silverwing is near twice the weight of your your Liberty 150!!!

Art
⬆️    About 1 month elapsed    ⬇️
@maggiegirl avatar
UTC

Addicted
2021 Primavera 150 touring, 2016 LXV 150 ie, 1978 Vespa P125, 2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 814
Location: central Illinois USA
 
Addicted
@maggiegirl avatar
2021 Primavera 150 touring, 2016 LXV 150 ie, 1978 Vespa P125, 2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 814
Location: central Illinois USA
UTC quote
[quote="sc00ter"]The Liberty is back in my hands. I almost bought a used Honda Silverwing and told the shop to put it up for sale. But riding the Liberty back 100 miles in the semi-bad heat made me realize its the perfect scooter for my needs. I realized that I got no paperwork about what repairs where done as it was covered 100% under warranty, but it seems to be fine. Its nice to be reunited with my Liberty again!

Just don't decide you want to install a usb hub the other side of the ignition..... I think the only way to do the job right is winter the scooter in the house and start taking all that body shell off....love my Libby but they did Not design her so an owner could easily add a much needed power hub for silly things like a smartphone
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