Vespa Rally vs P200 vs PX200 how to identify engine casings
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Enthusiast
Rally 200
Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 84
Location: UK
Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:15 am quote
I have a Vespa Rally, and during it's time with the previous owner the engine was converted to 12v (crank, flywheel, stator all changed) and the engine casings replaced, I don't know why but it happened, so basically a new engine.

The casings are not stamped which is quite normal as piaggio sold unmarked casings that could be used to repair an engine.

From pictures can anyone identify what my casings are (Rally/P200/PX200), as I know piaggio made changes over the years

My engine has the lower oil filler hole that I thought made them rally casings, but I followed a post on here and my casings differ from someone else's 'rally' casings (less holes around where the stator bolts on)


So I'm hoping one of you can tell me how to confirm what engine casings I have from the pictures I post, any further pictures needed please ask.

Thank you in advance for any help.

Troy

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Hooked
Joined: 22 Jul 2018
Posts: 106

Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:54 am quote
I don't have the experience to tell you Rally or P200 but for PX look under the case and see if there is a hole in the bottom just before where the wheel bearing is. If there is a hole or the hole has been plugged with a screw then they are PX cases designed for an internal hub seal. The hole is to keep oil from seeping into the breaks. PX cases can be converted to external seal by plugging this hole.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2505

Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:03 pm quote
Iíve only worked on a couple Rally cases, but with that larger flywheel bearing (larger than what came in the P series), it looks like a Rally case to me.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
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Location: London UK
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:11 pm quote
P200E with Rally selector and quadrant?
Enthusiast
Rally 200
Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 84
Location: UK
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:16 pm quote
Jack221 wrote:
P200E with Rally selector and quadrant?
I don't know, but I'm hoping someone can tell me of any visual differences on between the models

Fingers crossed!
Enthusiast
Rally 200
Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 84
Location: UK
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:18 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Iíve only worked on a couple Rally cases, but with that larger flywheel bearing (larger than what came in the P series), it looks like a Rally case to me.
Ok, well that's one vote for rally casings, although I'm still sure it's missing a hole or two

thanks for your reply
Enthusiast
Rally 200
Joined: 28 May 2015
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Location: UK
Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:19 pm quote
BlackT5 wrote:
I don't have the experience to tell you Rally or P200 but for PX look under the case and see if there is a hole in the bottom just before where the wheel bearing is. If there is a hole or the hole has been plugged with a screw then they are PX cases designed for an internal hub seal. The hole is to keep oil from seeping into the breaks. PX cases can be converted to external seal by plugging this hole.
on first glance I can't see one, I'll tip the bike tomorrow and get an underside picture,

thanks Troy
Molto Verboso
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Sat Jun 27, 2020 12:53 pm quote
Looks like early P series cases (selector box mismatch too). I don't know if the late Ducati Rallys came with the small needle bearing on the flywheel side. Definitely not NU205 cases. Is that "PE" written on the cases, above the stator??

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Rally NU205 cases on the left, P cases on the right.

Enthusiast
Rally 200
Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 84
Location: UK
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:55 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
Looks like early P series cases (selector box mismatch too). I don't know if the late Ducati Rallys came with the small needle bearing on the flywheel side. Definitely not NU205 cases. Is that "PE" written on the cases, above the stator??
I'd seen this picture, and my casings do look like the P200 casings, but it was the lower oil filler hole that mine has, and those P200 don't.

Unless they had an early version, do you know what year those p200 casings are?

P.S. what's 'NU205" ??
Enthusiast
Rally 200
Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 84
Location: UK
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:05 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
Looks like early P series cases (selector box mismatch too). I don't know if the late Ducati Rallys came with the small needle bearing on the flywheel side. Definitely not NU205 cases. Is that "PE" written on the cases, above the stator??
The other thing I've noticed is the molding in the casing looks different from your P200 casings, I'll circle the bit I mean

thanks for posting

IMG_6886 edit1.jpg

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7566
Location: San Francisco
Sat Jun 27, 2020 4:18 pm quote
that boss in circled in the last photo is a later P feature. I think it was intended to pump 2T oil to the fly side main bearing.

The other telling sign is the size of the seal, smaller for P. and the space for the longer shift box and cover to line up, as already mentioned.

so absolutely P cases.
Enthusiast
Rally 200
Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 84
Location: UK
Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:24 pm quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
that boss in circled in the last photo is a later P feature. I think it was intended to pump 2T oil to the fly side main bearing.

The other telling sign is the size of the seal, smaller for P. and the space for the longer shift box and cover to line up, as already mentioned.

so absolutely P cases.
Itís definitely looking like p-series cases, but early ones rather than late.

Iíve just watched a video of ĎRobotí from Scooter West disassembling an untouched P200 from 1978 and the cases look identical, including the lower oil filler screw, and the mysterious looking channel thatĎa moulded in to the case.

Can anyone confirm if that channel is to oil the bearing, and did that design last long, is it on the later P200 engines, or PX200 engines

Iíll include a screenshot from the video but Iím not sure how it will come out

6974D5C8-F5FD-44E8-ABCF-4B322EE88393.png

Banned
2:6
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Location: San Francisco
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:04 pm quote
interesting about the oil boss on old vs new, I think you're right.

even on the cases that had it, it was never drilled and working. more of an option they build into the casting.
Enthusiast
Rally 200
Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 84
Location: UK
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:23 am quote
BlackT5 wrote:
I don't have the experience to tell you Rally or P200 but for PX look under the case and see if there is a hole in the bottom just before where the wheel bearing is. If there is a hole or the hole has been plugged with a screw then they are PX cases designed for an internal hub seal. The hole is to keep oil from seeping into the breaks. PX cases can be converted to external seal by plugging this hole.
Iíve taken a picture of the underside of the engine and canít see the hole (or screw) that you mention.

Looking at the Scooter West video my casings look the same as that 1978 P200.

Iíd be interested to know what year this changed if anyone want to add anything

Thanks for your post

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Enthusiast
Rally 200
Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 84
Location: UK
Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:27 am quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
interesting about the oil boss on old vs new, I think you're right.

even on the cases that had it, it was never drilled and working. more of an option they build into the casting.
So they never used it...bizarre!

Just out of interest Iíd like to know when they changed the design, and what actually changed.


Somewhere out there is a lovely Italian chap whoíd know the answers to all our questions
Hooked
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
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Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:11 am quote
The later series Rally engines which also came even later on Ducati Ignition used the same engine casings as the early P2

so there is no right or wrong answer to whether you have a rally engine or a P2 as some call it..... its all down to the whatever was to hand at the time of build


Early Rallye = Femsa - big bearing

Late Rallye = Ducati - small bearing
Early P2 = "rally engine"

in between, take your pick!
Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2018
Posts: 28
Location: H-town, TX
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:27 am quote
In between case
P200e case with both oil boss areas.

11CD3E07-96B0-4C6A-BFE4-1AB2803770B8.jpeg

Enthusiast
Rally 200
Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 84
Location: UK
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:52 am quote
Gravelrash2004 wrote:
The later series Rally engines which also came even later on Ducati Ignition used the same engine casings as the early P2

so there is no right or wrong answer to whether you have a rally engine or a P2 as some call it..... its all down to the whatever was to hand at the time of build


Early Rallye = Femsa - big bearing

Late Rallye = Ducati - small bearing
Early P2 = "rally engine"

in between, take your pick!
Iíd always wondered about these almost Ďmythicalí late Rally engines, were these engines 12v Battery/non battery or was it still a 6v system?

Iím trying to learn as much as I can about a bike I first owned over 35 years ago (when it was still original factory specí )
Mine was once a 6v femsatronic with the original cases

Thank for your post
Enthusiast
Rally 200
Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 84
Location: UK
Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:54 am quote
markosmarkos wrote:
P200e case with both oil boss areas.
Hahaha! Piaggio obviously hedging their bets

Do you know what year that engine is from?

Thanks for your post.
Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2018
Posts: 28
Location: H-town, TX
Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:04 pm quote
trojac wrote:
markosmarkos wrote:
P200e case with both oil boss areas.
Hahaha! Piaggio obviously hedging their bets

Do you know what year that engine is from?

Thanks for your post.
It is a 79 model US spec with 7/79 date of manufacture on the sticker.
Enthusiast
Rally 200
Joined: 28 May 2015
Posts: 84
Location: UK
Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:40 pm quote
markosmarkos wrote:
trojac wrote:
markosmarkos wrote:
P200e case with both oil boss areas.
Hahaha! Piaggio obviously hedging their bets

Do you know what year that engine is from?

Thanks for your post.
It is a 79 model US spec with 7/79 date of manufacture on the sticker.
Wow! Thatís brilliant, I wish I had a sticker with that kind of information.

Ok, that pretty much places my engine casings from sometime in Ď77 (I think that was when the last rallyís where made) up to mid Ď79 when yours were.
This at least gives me that a pretty good guide to when they were produced, and also what casings I have when Iím trying to order/find spares

Thank you
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