Off road with a GTS
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Hooked
Gts 300
Joined: 30 Jul 2017
Posts: 143
Location: HaÔfa, IsraŽl
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:03 am quote
Just wanted to share an experience that most surprised me and enhanced the versatility of our fantastic little vehicle.
I was with a friend who just bought a cute Svartpilen 401 and we went to ride on the Carmel mountain. We saw a bifurcation to a path full of gravel and pots with a high angle slop. Her scrambler could handle it easily I thought and then what about my Vespa. I drove slowly and carefully and was surprised by the easiness of reaching the top. Being able to follow with my foot on the ground when needed was helpful of course. I wonít say itís the best way to use it but I now know that some roads arenít closed for our Vespas. Pretty sure some of us already knew it.

A pic from the view after climbing and our 2 off road vehicles !

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Last edited by arh on Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:07 am; edited 1 time in total
Enthusiast
GTS 300 ABS, 2018
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Posts: 66
Location: Finland
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:31 am quote
Thanks for sharing arh. Great view !
I agree and add that actually very few roads are closed for Vespas. My roads as a flyfisher quite often lead to lakes and riverbanks in the end of poor quality tracks. Unless there is mud, Vespa has no challenge to reach the destination. Sticks and stones don`t bother us.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Kitted Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 7063
Location: Downtown Toronto
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:47 am quote
Yup theyíll do it and many of us have. I try to avoid it though except gravel which is fine. My concern is Vespas are not well designed to be laid down and are expensive to cosmetically fix. Iím absolutely obsessed about how my little Italian girl looks. I have a Russian beast for when I want to hit the trails thatís designed for it.

Give me a beater though especially a P series and Iíll hit the trails.

Worst Iíve been in on the Vespa is heavy freezing rain. That was both feet in the ground and not fun.
Enthusiast
2020 GTS 300 Super
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 78
Location: Teh REAL Northern California
Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:58 am quote
Harbinger wrote:
...Vespas are not well designed to be laid down and are expensive to cosmetically fix. Iím absolutely obsessed about how my little Italian girl looks. I have a Russian beast for when I want to hit the trails thatís designed for it.
Gotta agree with that. One of the things I had to give great consideration to when I was thinking about getting a Vespa was the lack of service available to me. The closest is 80 miles away. There are plenty of dirt roads to travel where I live in the Sierra Nevadas. And I do love to travel them on my quest to find landscape photos. But I wouldn't think to take my scooter off the pavement. I'll save all that kind of trekking for my Jeep.

Ossessionato
1991 T5 Pole Position, 2008 LXS 125, 2013 Peugeot Metropolis RS
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Posts: 3383
Location: Staffordshire UK
Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:16 am quote
Vespas should ONLY be used one way!



Your way

Hooked
2020 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: 27 Sep 2019
Posts: 161
Location: San Francisco
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:36 am quote
I have gotten curious and looked at dual sport 12" tires. The ones I've found aren't rated for high speeds, and I certainly spend more time on the freeway than I would offroading. I also share the others' concerns about chipping the finish and/or wiping out. I've had plenty of fun blasting up barely paved ranch roads, though!

One of the dealers here has built up a Sei Giorni to be a proper rally ride, with a headlight cover, crash bars, handguards, knobbies, and a spare tire. It's their window dressing.

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Ossessionato
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Yamaha Majesty 250 DX 1998
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:09 am quote
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PydL4W3BImw)

Ossessionato
2010 ThunderFly 190, 2008 250 GTS
Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 2710
Location: Springboro, OH
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:34 am quote
I did about 8 miles of packed dirt and gravel this past weekend in Daniel Boone National Forest, near Mount Sterling, KY (going up to see Chimney Top Rock)

The Vespa handled it very easily, as long as I stayed out of any ruts.

Chimney Top Rock road.JPG

Sponsor
Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6150
Location: NWAOK
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:35 am quote
I think that if you really start hitting dirt with a GTV or 6Day model, one of the first problems you will have is that headlight coming off.

That said, Heidenau K58 tires (80/20) are rated at 93 mph, but most people who want dirt specific tires don't plan on riding that fast off road. I've used Kenda K761s on a Vespa with good performance in the dirt, but they do not have a very high speed rating, as you pointed out.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
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Posts: 11329
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Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:47 am quote
It is certainly not hard to imagine scooters set up for riding in the dirt. Taking a new GTS out for a brisk run through off road dirt and gravel is not the first option that comes to my mind however.
Ossessionato
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Yamaha Majesty 250 DX 1998
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:49 am quote
Motovista wrote:
...one of the first problems you will have is that headlight coming off.
...and not only that...
Dooglas wrote:
It is certainly not hard to imagine scooters set up for riding in the dirt. Taking a new GTS out for a brisk run through off road dirt and gravel is not the first option that comes to my mind however.
Imagine the stones splashed from under the hull as they make it ... ouch!
Then the topics on how to touch up the sheet metal open.
Hooked
Gts 300
Joined: 30 Jul 2017
Posts: 143
Location: HaÔfa, IsraŽl
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:06 pm quote
Just wanted to thank you all. You confirmed how versatile our Vespa can be. Of course itís not designed for off raod and you donít want to fall with it as dents are immediate and hard to fix. So yes I will avoid going off road but I am glad to know that I can if needed!
Molto Verboso
'08 Gunuine Buddy 150 St Tropez 'Simon' '04 Honda Metropolitian 'Archie' [Sadly had to trade it away ;-( ]
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Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:56 am quote
ĎOff Roadí on a scooter? Nope, thatís what Jeeps are for. Having said that, werenít Vespas were developed for Post-War transportation needs where most of Italyís roads in pretty rotten shape. So Iíd say, the occasional gravel and/or hard packed dirt road are fine but with extreme caution.

C5CA15A4-667E-4B88-A3EB-AB7C6A343D64.jpeg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
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Posts: 9193
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Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:17 am quote
Iffen you don't like your scooter too much, you can always go Bixby-style.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHfJL5c2NCY
Ossessionato
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Yamaha Majesty 250 DX 1998
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 3579
Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:36 am quote
arh wrote:
Just wanted to thank you all. You confirmed how versatile our Vespa can be. Of course itís not designed for off raod and you donít want to fall with it as dents are immediate and hard to fix. So yes I will avoid going off road but I am glad to know that I can if needed!
I looked at the area of your tour from the satellite, nice place; a mountainous area in the center of many large and small towns and many winding roads. In addition to the Vespa I would also buy something on two wheels but for the off road. How is the temperature today? Today in my area at 17.00 it was 35 į C.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Kitted Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
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Posts: 7063
Location: Downtown Toronto
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:04 am quote
Sorry, have to do it...

THIS is an off-road bike. Not sure I'd want my Vespa here!

IMG_0381.jpeg

Molto Verboso
2006 Vespa GTS250ie, 1992 BMW K75
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 1875
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:19 am quote
My Vespa GTS 250 is capable off-road with a few caveats:

1. No deep-water crossings. Don't want to suck water in through the low air intake.

2. Deep mud swamps the scooter pretty quick.

3. Routes with big obstacles -- boulders, logs, etc.

Other than that I've done a fair bit of off-road riding and riding on dirt and gravel paths and forest roads. More aggressive tires would be nice but not essential. Keep in mind that I am in no hurry and am not pretending I am racing the Dakar.

The suspension gets hammered as does my back. And the body gets worn by rocks, stones, sticks, branches and stuff. If you want a pristine scoot, stay on the road.

A couple years ago I took a ride with a couple friends who ride off road. I didn't realize we would be going off road. I posted on my blog a piece titled:

RIDING A VESPA SCOOTER OFF-ROAD. It gives an overview of my experience alongside two dirtbikes.

180525_vespa_off-road002.jpg
Deep in the woods with a couple dirt riding friends. They snickered when I followed them but they never lost me.

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8537
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:23 am quote
I was in West Va a few weeks ago on vacation and found my self on some really steep and rough forest service roads on my MP3 500. Was so nice having two from wheels going through the ruts. The whole time I was thinking, why doesn't someone make an ATV set up with MP3 type suspension front and back.
Yamaha could make a heavier duty TRi City type ATV with 4 wheels.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 11329
Location: Oregon City, OR
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:03 am quote
Harbinger wrote:
Sorry, have to do it...

THIS is an off-road bike. Not sure I'd want my Vespa here!
Yes, it certainly is! Designed for the job, and it DOES the job.
Enthusiast
2020 GTS 300 Super
Joined: 28 May 2020
Posts: 78
Location: Teh REAL Northern California
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:06 am quote
fledermaus wrote:
Iffen you don't like your scooter too much, you can always go Bixby-style.
That's just blasphemy!
Ossessionato
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Yamaha Majesty 250 DX 1998
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:52 am quote
Harbinger wrote:
Sorry, have to do it...

THIS is an off-road bike. Not sure I'd want my Vespa here!
It is an unequal comparison, Ural was born as a motorcycle for difficult roads. It is almost a shame to use it only on asphalted roads.
Ossessionato
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 2386
Location: Finland
Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:40 am quote
Nice view, definitely worth a bit of scrambling

Vespas are quite versatile.
My Vespa handled quite OK the piece of a gravel road where this vid ends.

I never took it to the 'short cut' road though... and it would have gotten stuck from the belly.

With my late VanVan (in the vid) I could go anywhere, almost literally... mayby sometimes a bit 'shaken and stirred' in the end



[urlhttps://youtu.be/yzGDzBgNDtk[/url]
Hooked
2009 250
Joined: 13 Oct 2019
Posts: 155
Location: Canada
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:50 pm quote
Dirt and gravel and snow and ice is my happy place.

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Hooked
2009 250
Joined: 13 Oct 2019
Posts: 155
Location: Canada
Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:57 pm quote
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Hooked
2009 250
Joined: 13 Oct 2019
Posts: 155
Location: Canada
Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:05 pm quote
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Ossessionato
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Yamaha Majesty 250 DX 1998
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 3579
Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:48 pm quote
The problems are not the paths made of soil but those with stones, then you must consider that fine sand and fine soil raised by the passage of the vehicle are sucked by the filters; normally you will change them every time maintenance asks for it, but so you will have to do it first.
Furthermore, the grinding action of those soils causes the brake discs to scratch and in the most serious cases infiltrates the wheel and suspension bearings.
I am not saying that you cannot make rough paths but only that you have to keep in mind that maybe you will have more mechanical problems in the future; someone will tell me that I exaggerate ... maybe and maybe not, it depends on what you want from your vehicle and what it was designed for.
Honestly, when I see photos of many of your Vespa engines disassembled for various problems, I also look at the external conditions of the crankcases ... many are dirty and ruined and there can be but I often wonder how many of the problems had been the fault of the owner and not of the vehicle itself.
Ossessionato
1991 T5 Pole Position, 2008 LXS 125, 2013 Peugeot Metropolis RS
Joined: 06 May 2011
Posts: 3383
Location: Staffordshire UK
Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:07 am quote
I might hesitate a little with a GTS, but I would have had no fear whatsoever with my old ET4, bloody bulletproof that thing was
Hooked
Gts 300
Joined: 30 Jul 2017
Posts: 143
Location: HaÔfa, IsraŽl
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:34 am quote
S.Ro wrote:
More
Love those pics S.Ro. And yes thatís exactly the kind of roads that do not frighten her and where seating low with a light and automatic 2 wheels is helpful.
Hooked
Gts 300
Joined: 30 Jul 2017
Posts: 143
Location: HaÔfa, IsraŽl
Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:37 am quote
VESPAsfw3 wrote:
My Vespa GTS 250 is capable off-road with a few caveats:

1. No deep-water crossings. Don't want to suck water in through the low air intake.

2. Deep mud swamps the scooter pretty quick.

3. Routes with big obstacles -- boulders, logs, etc.

Other than that I've done a fair bit of off-road riding and riding on dirt and gravel paths and forest roads. More aggressive tires would be nice but not essential. Keep in mind that I am in no hurry and am not pretending I am racing the Dakar.

The suspension gets hammered as does my back. And the body gets worn by rocks, stones, sticks, branches and stuff. If you want a pristine scoot, stay on the road.

A couple years ago I took a ride with a couple friends who ride off road. I didn't realize we would be going off road. I posted on my blog a piece titled:

RIDING A VESPA SCOOTER OFF-ROAD. It gives an overview of my experience alongside two dirtbikes.
Thank you Steve. I donít know how I missed it as I am a real fan of Scooter in the sticks and also loved and owned a K75!
Member
Gts 300 notte
Joined: 27 May 2020
Posts: 17
Location: Toronto
Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:24 am quote
yeah dudes, vespa can handle it! robot did a crazy adventure on a lil 50cc recently..



[/url]https://youtu.be/Uhn7jGm1NuE?t=689[/url]
Hooked
2020 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: 27 Sep 2019
Posts: 161
Location: San Francisco
Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:37 am quote
Those Svartpilens are cool looking bikes!

If I was ever going to buy a second moto, they'd be high in my consideration set.
Ossessionato
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 2386
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Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:07 pm quote
mayorofnow wrote:
Those Svartpilens are cool looking bikes!

If I was ever going to buy a second moto, they'd be high in my consideration set.
I like the style too - I've test ridden this 401 version, it's a bike that easily turns a grownup man a hooligan

Very nice engine for this size, light and easy to handle bike... the only downside for me was that although it looks like a scrambler (well, sort of), it actually behaves and has ergonomics quite like a sport/'hyper naked' bike... not too far from, say a Yamaha MT. Good for those who prefer a tad sporty riding position and sharp turning, less so for a guy like me who likes to sit straight and have a bit more sluggish steering geometry... but yes, it is a great bike and looks good too!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Kitted Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 7063
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Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:05 pm quote
RRider wrote:
mayorofnow wrote:
Those Svartpilens are cool looking bikes!

If I was ever going to buy a second moto, they'd be high in my consideration set.
I like the style too - I've test ridden this 401 version, it's a bike that easily turns a grownup man a hooligan

Very nice engine for this size, light and easy to handle bike... the only downside for me was that although it looks like a scrambler (well, sort of), it actually behaves and has ergonomics quite like a sport/'hyper naked' bike... not too far from, say a Yamaha MT. Good for those who prefer a tad sporty riding position and sharp turning, less so for a guy like me who likes to sit straight and have a bit more sluggish steering geometry... but yes, it is a great bike and looks good too!
The Svartpilen and more specifcly Husqvarna certainly have that Ural feel to them. Lots of history and a reputation for ruggedness AND being more reliable now. I've seen a few in person in Toronto and they are cool bikes. If it wasn't for my need to ride in snow I would have considered one instead of the Ural when I was looking for an off-road capable ride. However nothing considered a motorcycle beats a Ural when it comes to a street legal winter motorcycle.
Hooked
Gts 300
Joined: 30 Jul 2017
Posts: 143
Location: HaÔfa, IsraŽl
Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:19 pm quote
I confirm the 401 Svartpilen is a funny little toy. Very versatile also and an upset one as we say in hebrew. In no ways comparable to the Ural. Nothing but a Lada is comparable to the Ural btw!
Personally I prefer the 701 both Svart and Vitpilen. Bigger toys still incredibly light and much more powerful. Maybe to replace my MT10 sp. Coming back to the pure pleasure and essence of motorbike. 2 wheels a 1 cylinder engine and no weight.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Kitted Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 7063
Location: Downtown Toronto
Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:08 am quote
arh wrote:
I confirm the 401 Svartpilen is a funny little toy. Very versatile also and an upset one as we say in hebrew. In no ways comparable to the Ural. Nothing but a Lada is comparable to the Ural btw!
Personally I prefer the 701 both Svart and Vitpilen. Bigger toys still incredibly light and much more powerful. Maybe to replace my MT10 sp. Coming back to the pure pleasure and essence of motorbike. 2 wheels a 1 cylinder engine and no weight.
You are a little behind on your knowledge of what a Ural is. There have been more than a few upgrades in theast decade or so. Comparing it to a Lada is a little lazy and shows lack of knowledge.
Hooked
Gts 300
Joined: 30 Jul 2017
Posts: 143
Location: HaÔfa, IsraŽl
Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:13 am quote
Harbinger wrote:
arh wrote:
I confirm the 401 Svartpilen is a funny little toy. Very versatile also and an upset one as we say in hebrew. In no ways comparable to the Ural. Nothing but a Lada is comparable to the Ural btw!
Personally I prefer the 701 both Svart and Vitpilen. Bigger toys still incredibly light and much more powerful. Maybe to replace my MT10 sp. Coming back to the pure pleasure and essence of motorbike. 2 wheels a 1 cylinder engine and no weight.
You are a little behind on your knowledge of what a Ural is. There have been more than a few upgrades in theast decade or so. Comparing it to a Lads is a little lazy and shows lack of knowledge.
Ural are great tools, so are Ladas. Ural side cars are now imported in Israel. So a documentary on the factory. Quite rustic. And the salesman told me that they barely reach 90 kmh. Anyway wasnít insulting. Just saying that Svartpilen and Ural are 2 different worlds. But as you owe one, let us know ďwhat Ural isĒ . Would be glad to learn.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Kitted Vespa 2017 GTV 300, BMW 2017 C650GT, Ural 2019 Gear Up
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 7063
Location: Downtown Toronto
Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:31 am quote
arh wrote:
Ural are great tools, so are Ladas. Ural side cars are now imported in Israel. So a documentary on the factory. Quite rustic. And the salesman told me that they barely reach 90 kmh. Anyway wasnít insulting. Just saying that Svartpilen and Ural are 2 different worlds. But as you owe one, let us know ďwhat Ural isĒ . Would be glad to learn.
Well I'm not sure when or what salesperson you were talking to but barely 90? That is complete BS for any modern Ural. I've been over 120 kmh with room left. There are not a fast bike by any means but are not built for that. If you want something with lots of low end torque that can tackle the toughest roads you want a Ural. They have been getting upgrades for years and are now something like 75% imported parts such as Brembo brakes on the bike and sidecar. I'm not going to write a long review but there are plenty online. FWIW I use mine instead of a car and off-road. It does both jobs great including handling the snow with ease. Not too many bikes do that.

https://adventuremotorcycle.com/bikes/2019-ural-gear-up-review

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/279276/first-ride-2019-ural-gearup/

https://ridermagazine.com/2018/11/14/updates-for-urals-2019-lineup/
Hooked
Gts 300
Joined: 30 Jul 2017
Posts: 143
Location: HaÔfa, IsraŽl
Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:36 am quote
Harbinger wrote:
arh wrote:
Ural are great tools, so are Ladas. Ural side cars are now imported in Israel. So a documentary on the factory. Quite rustic. And the salesman told me that they barely reach 90 kmh. Anyway wasnít insulting. Just saying that Svartpilen and Ural are 2 different worlds. But as you owe one, let us know ďwhat Ural isĒ . Would be glad to learn.
Well I'm not sure when or what salesperson you were talking to but barely 90? That is complete BS for any modern Ural. I've been over 120 kmh with room left. There are not a fast bike by any means but are not built for that. If you want something with lots of low end torque that can tackle the toughest roads you want a Ural. They have been getting upgrades for years and are now something like 75% imported parts such as Brembo brakes on the bike and sidecar. I'm not going to write a long review but there are plenty online. FWIW I use mine instead of a car and off-road. It does both jobs great including handling the snow with ease. Not too many bikes do that.

https://adventuremotorcycle.com/bikes/2019-ural-gear-up-review

https://www.rideapart.com/articles/279276/first-ride-2019-ural-gearup/

https://ridermagazine.com/2018/11/14/updates-for-urals-2019-lineup/
Thanks for the links. Will look at it carefully. Had one in their show room. Found it magnetic in real. For sure I wouldnít buy it for driving fast but 90 was a little low. They arenít cheap though, at least in Israel. This being said if you have the opportunity try a Svartpilen preferably 701, itís fantastic. Keeps you smiling. Like our Vespas
Ossessionato
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Yamaha Majesty 250 DX 1998
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 3579
Location: Latina (Italy)
Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:05 am quote
I suggest buying a used PX, mounting dirt tires and using it as a motocross bike; or buy a SYM Crox 125

https://www.symuk.co.uk/new-bikes/bike/2020-sym-crox-125cc-ac-76

Obviously it is valid as a second vehicle, the Vespa is the Vespa.
Ossessionato
Triumph Street Scrambler 2018, Suzuki VanVan200 (sold), 2015 Sprint 125 (sold)
Joined: 12 Apr 2015
Posts: 2386
Location: Finland
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:06 am quote
arh wrote:
I confirm the 401 Svartpilen is a funny little toy. Very versatile also and an upset one as we say in hebrew. In no ways comparable to the Ural. Nothing but a Lada is comparable to the Ural btw!
Personally I prefer the 701 both Svart and Vitpilen. Bigger toys still incredibly light and much more powerful. Maybe to replace my MT10 sp. Coming back to the pure pleasure and essence of motorbike. 2 wheels a 1 cylinder engine and no weight.
It is a funny equation: I tend to prefer the 401 because even with the limitations of pure power, it feels like you'll get incredible value for money with the unique looks and good specs.

The 701 is a very impressive bike, both with the looks and the spec, but it is also almost douple the price. This puts it into a totally different league.. like, is it really that good...but money aside, amazing bike for having some fun too.
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