Wide tire aka tyre kits and taller tires.
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern Previous12
Author Message
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2949

Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:29 pm quote
pheasant plucker wrote:
WDC isnít lying for sure... so you need to want the wide look bad enough to chase it and all the problems that come with it.

I havenít moved my top shock mount point... I did have to beat the frame out so it didnít contact. But doesnít take any side force to get it to mount, and didnít need to open up the fixing points. But realise that static and dynamic forces are likely to be different... will be keeping an eye on it.
You're correct, you do have to modify (beat) the frame so it doesn't contact. At that point there is no side load, but as the suspension compresses, then that's when the side load rear it's ugly head.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2949

Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:42 pm quote
pheasant plucker wrote:
And pretty sure WDC races/has raced Vespas proper-like (correct me if Iím wrong)...
I think for 5 years? And if there was ANY sort of mod that we could have done (withing the racing class of rules) that we could have taken advantage of, we would have done it for sure! I went with the tubeless for the only reason that they were much lighter weight than the stock steel rims. I have much better acceleration with them. But that also meant that i had to buy two sets...one set for the slicks, and one set for the rain race tires. For all my road going scooters i still use the stock steel split rims though.

I think the 11"x 3" wide version look totally rad, but there's definitely a fair amount of work to get them to work in harmony with the frame and suspension. (i have the 3" wide version on both the front and rear of my pink PK200.

https://www.scooter-center.com/en/shock-absorber-upper-mounting/frame-cmd-silent-scorpion-vespa-largeframe-px-sprint-rally-gt/gtr-ts-super-vba-vbb-vna-vnb-two-piece-support-carriage-adjustable-0-15mm-also-for-wide-tyre-conversion-replaces-cmdss0010?number=CMDSS0010 This popped up on the market a few years ago. I haven't installed one yet, but i'm guessing it might involve a sawsall to get the shock spring to rub against the frame?
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2190
Location: california
Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:22 pm quote
Christopher - just to clarify:
Quote:
I've got the 110/70-11s on the shelf until re-paint.
I have 100/80-10s on the bike currently.
I've tried the 3.5 - see note - gummy bear uncertainty on my rig - but perfect for the sidecar wheel.
Mine are all on 2.5 wide rims.
I have never mounted the 11's on the bike - but I expect them to fit like the 10's - which is to say - no cutting or mods needed.

The 100/80-10s on 2.5" wide rims don't require modifications.
No cutting - no shock stuff.
That's what I have been running day in day out.
These are not as wide as some of the 3.0 rim stuff - but they still look pretty beefy to my eye.

So if you prefer to max your size, but not get in to cutting of casings and what not - the 2.5 width rims offer a pretty big footprint as an option.
Tho of course - you can always go full pontoon and use it on lake Minnetonka on the weekends.

🙂
Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1098
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:23 pm quote
That shock mount looks like a great idea... but ouch at the price!

Might try and bounce up and down on the Vespa with the fiber scope looking at the rubber shock mount - would imagine significant lateral force would deform it?

I need to adjust my shocks anyway. The front is definitely too soft atm. I actually just noticed small contact marks on the swing arm and fork where it must have hit. Guessing when being test ridden by the mechanic.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8066
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:47 pm quote
pheasant plucker wrote:
http://www.bits4motorbikes.co.uk/TireSizeConversion.html

https://www.campusskooters.com/tire-size-conversion-chart
Cheers PP, must have missed this before.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2949

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:12 pm quote
pheasant plucker wrote:
That shock mount looks like a great idea... but ouch at the price!

Might try and bounce up and down on the Vespa with the fiber scope looking at the rubber shock mount - would imagine significant lateral force would deform it?

I need to adjust my shocks anyway. The front is definitely too soft atm. I actually just noticed small contact marks on the swing arm and fork where it must have hit. Guessing when being test ridden by the mechanic.
If you could remove the spring and cycle the suspension, then it would be easily seen (and possibly felt too). You probably won't ever notice it if you're just bouncing up and down on the seat.

I haven't looked at the price on that shock relocator bracket. I first saw it a while back randomly on a google search, and when i did, i knew exactly what it was and why it was made though. Crazy Monkey seems to make some cool stuff that no one has though of before to put into production.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8066
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:42 pm quote
pheasant plucker wrote:
That shock mount looks like a great idea... but ouch at the price!.
This doesn't have adjustment, but it definitely is simple and entirely do-able at home. The location of the shock hole is a way to adjust I guess.
The bottom pic is an early version of the AF Parts shock mount... not sure what difference you'd feel with and without the rubber mount at the top.

Shock mount idea.jpg

AF racing rear shock mount.jpg

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2949

Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:32 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
pheasant plucker wrote:
That shock mount looks like a great idea... but ouch at the price!.
This doesn't have adjustment, but it definitely is simple and entirely do-able at home. The location of the shock hole is a way to adjust I guess.
The bottom pic is an early version of the AF Parts shock mount... not sure what difference you'd feel with and without the rubber mount at the top.
Yeah, a "handy" person could probably whip up an upper custom mount fairly easily. The upper mount just needs to run parallel with the cycling of the suspension. The only way around that is by using heim joints on BOTH the upper and lower shock. It can't be just be on one end though because then it would still cause binding when the suspension is cycled.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
a not so normal vbb2 '64, a weirdo vbx '86, a not so normal pts100 '82 and a red lipstick '74 sprint
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 5738
Location: Indo
Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:25 am quote
Try mine

IMG-20200711-WA0054.jpg
Less then a $1

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1552
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:48 am quote
Going to stick with 2.5Ē or less, donít want to move upper mount, itís a rabbit hole I donít feel like dealing with. Especially with a new Clauss upper mount.

Clauss could make a wide tire mount by moving the hole in there mount. Don't think it would take much for them.

Also a joint at just the top still has the bottom at an angle, the bottom would have to pivot also.I

A smaller diameter rear shock coil over spring would also solve the problem of the spring hitting the body.
Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1098
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:58 pm quote
And Iím gonna take this advice seriously and look at shifting my upper mount. Sigh... just when I was getting so close.

Nvm... the weather is so wet that riding isnít likely anytime soon.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1552
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:59 pm quote
I got my Indian wide tyre out to take a look. Going to take a little work to get it to fit.

2020-07-19_08-35-08_699.jpg

2020-07-19_08-35-03_662.jpg

2020-07-19_08-34-54_621.jpg

Hooked
P Series / Li / LML / Motobi
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 447
Location: UK - 3rd Rock From the Sun
Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:15 am quote
that has to be done!!!

if only to be sat at the back of the bike and powered by a belt/chain of some sorts.......
Lurker
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 3

Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:08 am quote
While sitting here board stiff for 40 min and 46 seconds while performing maintenance on a dental sterilizer. I was thinking about scooters. If we grind the motor mount to make a 3" wide tire fit, is there room to do the same to the shock mount? Inquiring minds want to know.
Molto Verboso
One or two fun scoots....nothing too precious
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 1656
Location: UK (South East)
Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:53 am quote
You could use the Crazy Monkey rear shock mount. It has up to 15mm adjustment for wide setups (you need ~10mm), but it's crazy money for what it is. This assumes your frame has enough space. I've not bothered with one, but I've heard that spring clearance can be an issue.
Molto Verboso
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1098
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:46 pm quote
Christopher_2 wrote:
While sitting here board stiff for 40 min and 46 seconds while performing maintenance on a dental sterilizer. I was thinking about scooters. If we grind the motor mount to make a 3" wide tire fit, is there room to do the same to the shock mount? Inquiring minds want to know.
If you mean the lower mount on the motor - shifting the spring 10mm left would mean it contacts the tire.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1552
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:08 pm quote
Yeah, you mean that gap that I canít get my pinky finger into between my shock spring and tire? 🤣.

That what happens when I sit watching a sterilizer run for two hours. Man is that boring.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1552
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon Nov 23, 2020 4:47 pm quote
You could add the tire weights here, with the other wide tire kit stuff.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1552
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:10 pm quote
This is the thread I was looking for.


Pinasco Tubeless Split Rim Install

old tires (stock LML/Stella with Continental Zippy's and tubes) and they came in at 10.05 lbs each

Stock Piagio rims with Continental Zippys and tubes. 10 pounds each


FA Italia Margherita rims with S1s. 7 pounds each

Pinasco rims with Heidenau k61s. 8.6 pounds each

Pinasco rims with S1s. 8.4 pounds

stock rim w/Michelin tube and Kenda tires 11.6 lbs

Pinasco+K61's with 20lbs of air, came in at 8lbs each.

SIP 11" wheels with K61 tire 11 lbs.

Last edited by Christopher_55934 on Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2949

Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:33 pm quote
Christopher_55934 wrote:
This is the thread I was looking for.


Pinasco Tubeless Split Rim Install


stock Piagio rims with Continental Zippys and tubes. 10 pounds each
FA Italia Margherita rims with S1s. 7 pounds each
Pinasco rims with Heidenau k61s. 8.6 pounds each
Pinasco rims with S1s. 8.4 pounds

stock rim w/Michelin tube and Kenda tires 11.6 lbs

old tires (stock LML/Stella with Continental Zippy's and tubes) and they came in at 10.05 lbs each

Pinasco+K61's with 20lbs of air, came in at 8lbs each.
...so how much more do the Pinascos+K61's weigh with 25lbs of air, compared to just 20lbs of air?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8066
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:37 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Christopher_55934 wrote:
This is the thread I was looking for.


Pinasco Tubeless Split Rim Install


stock Piagio rims with Continental Zippys and tubes. 10 pounds each
FA Italia Margherita rims with S1s. 7 pounds each
Pinasco rims with Heidenau k61s. 8.6 pounds each
Pinasco rims with S1s. 8.4 pounds

stock rim w/Michelin tube and Kenda tires 11.6 lbs

old tires (stock LML/Stella with Continental Zippy's and tubes) and they came in at 10.05 lbs each

Pinasco+K61's with 20lbs of air, came in at 8lbs each.
...so how much more do the Pinascos+K61's weigh with 25lbs of air, compared to just 20lbs of air?
And with the wheel nuts done up to 18lb...
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1552
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:39 pm quote
Not much difference, my scuba tank doesn't change that much with 80cf of compressed air at 3000 psi.
whodatschrome wrote:
Christopher_55934 wrote:
This is the thread I was looking for.


Pinasco Tubeless Split Rim Install


stock Piagio rims with Continental Zippys and tubes. 10 pounds each
FA Italia Margherita rims with S1s. 7 pounds each
Pinasco rims with Heidenau k61s. 8.6 pounds each
Pinasco rims with S1s. 8.4 pounds

stock rim w/Michelin tube and Kenda tires 11.6 lbs

old tires (stock LML/Stella with Continental Zippy's and tubes) and they came in at 10.05 lbs each

Pinasco+K61's with 20lbs of air, came in at 8lbs each.
...so how much more do the Pinascos+K61's weigh with 25lbs of air, compared to just 20lbs of air?
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1552
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:57 pm quote
Tire circumference vs speed
To cold and snowy here, a little gearing, tire diameter math, it looks like the taller 120/70-11 is a little less than 1 tooth adjustment at the main gears clutch cog. Also found DRT makes a 22 tooth gear that's supposed to fit the 65 tooth main gear. So if your going a little wider and taller and don't like the up gear there are options.


My P200
5750 rpm = 96.72 kph
3.50 rear tire circumference equals 1357mm measured.
36 tooth 4th gear
24/65 main gearing

5750 rpm = 100.21kmh
120/70 - 11 rear tire = 1406 calculated circumference
36 tooth 4th gear
24/65 main gearing

5750 rpm = 95.86 kph
120/70 - 11 rear tire = 1406 calculated circumference
36 tooth 4th gear
23/65 main gearing

5750 rpm = 92.06 kph
120/70 - 11 rear tire = 1406 calculated circumference
36 tooth 4th gear
22/65 main gearing

5750 rpm = 102.42 kmh
120/70 - 11 rear tire = 1406 calculated circumference
35 tooth 4th gear
24/65 main gearing

5750 rpm = 98.09 kmh
120/70 - 11 rear tire = 1406 calculated circumference
35 tooth 4th gear
23/65 main gearing

5750 rpm = 94.11 kmh
120/70 - 11 rear tire = 1406 calculated circumference
35 tooth 4th gear
22/65 main gearing
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8066
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:13 pm quote
Very helpful comparison Christopher.
  DoubleGood Vespa T-Shirts  
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern Previous12
[ Time: 0.1632s ][ Queries: 27 (0.0377s) ][ Debug on ]