Are Scooters Motorcycles?
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Molto Verboso
LXS 150
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Location: The OTHER South Bay, CA
Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:03 pm quote
Yeah.
Gets weird when you look at the corner cases.

2020 Husky Svartpilen/Vitpilen 401 (not the 2019) have quickshifters and can be fitted with a Rekluse centrifugal clutch*. It has a 6-speed manual, but with the Rekluse clutch pack you wouldn't actually need to use the clutch lever...

Same with the new Honda Cub (manual transmission with centrifugal clutch, and mechanical clutch disengagement actuated by the shift lever).

So, automatic-ish transmissions. Are they scooters? The Honda is step-through, so maybe.

Legally, in California a scooter 149cc and under is not a motorcycle, 150cc and up is a motorcycle. 50cc on down isn't a moped unless it's electric or literally has pedal power too (with power and top speed constraints applying).



* It's an OEM authorized mod, doesn't affect warranty.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:20 pm quote
So I guess the Honda DCT is a scooter then?
Hooked
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Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:26 pm quote
I can remember in the 60/70's things like Honda cubs and Yamaha's version were called scooterette's (not sure of spelling) to confuse the issue even more
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Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:38 pm quote
grahamlml wrote:
I can remember in the 60/70's things like Honda cubs and Yamaha's version were called scooterette's (not sure of spelling) to confuse the issue even more
So I guess let's not get started on mopeds?
Addicted
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Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:57 pm quote
According to the State of Texas, the title on my Vespa says it's a motorcycle. It just happens to be better looking than most motorcycles.
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GTS250
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Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:02 pm quote
But that Husky is still a motorcycle.
Molto Verboso
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Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:03 pm quote
If your ego needs them to be....

o.s.
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2020 Vespa GTS Touring 300
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Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:18 pm quote
My new Vespa is clearly a motorcycle in disguise.
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Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:45 pm quote
The Garden State settled the issue for me:

melodyplateframe.jpg
It's only a State of mind. (Note: Old photo; license-plate frame, like the dealer, is gone.)

Addicted
2016 LXV 150 ie, 1978 Vespa P125, 2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
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Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:57 pm quote
Central Illinois here and if it has wheels and is moved by anything other than foot power, itís motorized and requires plates and operators must be licensed to drive a car, 16 or over, so put a motor on a bicycle, that now qualifies. And yes, that stuff was written into law a long time ago. Here they are motorcycles, 3 classes, 49 cc and below does Not require motorcycle endorsement, 149 down is a class, with that you cannot run anything that has more than 149 cc, and the the last allows you to run anything classed as a motorcycle, and there is debates about those slingshot things and what they should be under. I donít know if the law really gets concerned much but years ago the city police did stop 2 young boys on a little scooter and they walked it home, folllowed by a very slowly moving police car. Both were very obviously well under 16 years of age.
Molto Verboso
LXS 150
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Location: The OTHER South Bay, CA
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:21 pm quote
maggiegirl wrote:
Central Illinois here and if it has wheels and is moved by anything other than foot power, itís motorized and requires plates and operators must be licensed to drive a car, 16 or over, so put a motor on a bicycle, that now qualifies. And yes, that stuff was written into law a long time ago. Here they are motorcycles, 3 classes, 49 cc and below does Not require motorcycle endorsement, 149 down is a class, with that you cannot run anything that has more than 149 cc, and the the last allows you to run anything classed as a motorcycle, and there is debates about those slingshot things and what they should be under. I donít know if the law really gets concerned much but years ago the city police did stop 2 young boys on a little scooter and they walked it home, folllowed by a very slowly moving police car. Both were very obviously well under 16 years of age.
Wait. So the Yamaha RX50 (1983) wouldn't need a motorcycle license in IL? Saw some fellow who got one running again and did a YouTube on it, got it up to 54 MPH...

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Location: KS USA
Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:21 am quote
All modern Vespas are considered motorcycles in the state of Kansas.

Edited: mi voyce recognition program is misbehaving

Last edited by Max6200 on Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:26 am; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
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Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:46 am quote
The question is: what is the border between scooter and motorcycle?
amateriat wrote:
The Garden State settled the issue for me:
...is it considered a promotion or a degradation?

Last edited by Attila on Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:48 am; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:47 am quote
Madison Sully wrote:
grahamlml wrote:
I can remember in the 60/70's things like Honda cubs and Yamaha's version were called scooterette's (not sure of spelling) to confuse the issue even more
So I guess let's not get started on mopeds?
Here ateasr a moped is a low CC motorbike with pedals. A posted a pic a while a go of some guy here that taped pedals to his smallie vespa so he could park on the sidewalk.

I just usually go with motorbike, sorta covers everything.

Yes a Vespa is a great looking "motorcycle"
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Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:51 am quote
Harbinger wrote:
Yes a Vespa is a great looking "motorcycle"
Italian Vespa enthusiasts say that Vespa is a motorcycle with an elegant dress.
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Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:32 am quote
Attila wrote:
The question is: what is the border between scooter and motorcycle?
amateriat wrote:
The Garden State settled the issue for me:
...is it considered a promotion or a degradation?
Depends on what we're comparing here...
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Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Yamaha Majesty 250 DX 1998
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Sun Aug 02, 2020 11:32 am quote
amateriat wrote:
Attila wrote:
The question is: what is the border between scooter and motorcycle?
amateriat wrote:
The Garden State settled the issue for me:
...is it considered a promotion or a degradation?
Depends on what we're comparing here...
Ossessionato
Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956 - Yamaha Majesty 250 DX 1998
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Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:59 am quote
delete

Last edited by Attila on Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
2017 Piaggio BV350
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Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:23 am quote
I've found that most RevZilla commenters are motorcycle snobs. If it doesn't fit their definition of what a motorcycle is, it's a POS toy. It's the same thing as people who think that cars with automatic transmissions are not "real" cars. Or beer snobs who say that any beer that has an IBU under 50 isn't a real beer.

The best comment on the article I saw was "all scooters are motorcycles, but not all motorcycles are scooters."
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:40 am quote
monogodo wrote:
I've found that most RevZilla commenters are motorcycle snobs. If it doesn't fit their definition of what a motorcycle is, it's a POS toy. It's the same thing as people who think that cars with automatic transmissions are not "real" cars. Or beer snobs who say that any beer that has an IBU under 50 isn't a real beer.

The best comment on the article I saw was "all scooters are motorcycles, but not all motorcycles are scooters."
What's an IBU?
Hooked
GTS 300
Joined: 21 Nov 2011
Posts: 105
Location: SoCal
Mon Aug 03, 2020 9:13 am quote
Sit on it like a chair or toilet - Scooter

Straddle it - Motorcycle.

Aren't there some big scooters you straddle though? Don't know.
Member
Piaggio BV-500, Yamaha Majesty, Honda Helix Sidecar Rig
Joined: 23 Feb 2020
Posts: 17
Location: Tucson, AZ
Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:12 am quote
monogodo wrote:
I've found that most RevZilla commenters are motorcycle snobs. If it doesn't fit their definition of what a motorcycle is, it's a POS toy. It's the same thing as people who think that cars with automatic transmissions are not "real" cars. Or beer snobs who say that any beer that has an IBU under 50 isn't a real beer.

The best comment on the article I saw was "all scooters are motorcycles, but not all motorcycles are scooters."
Do they prefer motorcycles? Yes. However, from the article, it appears that all of those interviewed have had, or still have a scooter.

I went to the Long Beach edition of the International Motorcycle show and saw a Helix in the parking lot and so I put a business card on it. Later, I got an email from the owner of that Helix. It was Ari.

Howard

IMG_20191123_105656759_HDR.jpg

Addicted
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Location: central Illinois USA
Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:58 pm quote
Rusty J wrote:
maggiegirl wrote:
Central Illinois here and if it has wheels and is moved by anything other than foot power, itís motorized and requires plates and operators must be licensed to drive a car, 16 or over, so put a motor on a bicycle, that now qualifies. And yes, that stuff was written into law a long time ago. Here they are motorcycles, 3 classes, 49 cc and below does Not require motorcycle endorsement, 149 down is a class, with that you cannot run anything that has more than 149 cc, and the the last allows you to run anything classed as a motorcycle, and there is debates about those slingshot things and what they should be under. I donít know if the law really gets concerned much but years ago the city police did stop 2 young boys on a little scooter and they walked it home, folllowed by a very slowly moving police car. Both were very obviously well under 16 years of age.
Wait. So the Yamaha RX50 (1983) wouldn't need a motorcycle license in IL? Saw some fellow who got one running again and did a YouTube on it, got it up to 54 MPH...

In Illinois that would require a legal plate and registration and insurance and operator 16 or older with a valid drivers license. And if you loose your driving privileges you also loose any motorcycle privileges. Not every one Ďgetsí that part until they are stopped by their local law officials and see their precious ride hauled off to the impound yard by guys who donít care if itís damaged on the way there.
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Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:58 pm quote
joe register wrote:
Sit on it like a chair or toilet - Scooter

Straddle it - Motorcycle.

Aren't there some big scooters you straddle though? Don't know.
... a scooter?

rub-a-dub-dub-galpin-speed-shop-to-restore-the-bathtub-2019-03-11_18-09-24_891115.jpg
The Bathtub Buggy from 1968 by Rob Reisner... a toilet seat powered by Chrysler's Hemi.

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Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:24 am quote
Quad.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:06 am quote
joe register wrote:
Sit on it like a chair or toilet - Scooter

Straddle it - Motorcycle.

Aren't there some big scooters you straddle though? Don't know.
some of the guys I know at Motorrad just call the C650 a "step through motorcycle" . I think it's mostly because they feel silly calling something that powerful a "scooter" at least in North America.
Hooked
Joined: 22 Jan 2016
Posts: 149
Location: UK
Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:39 am quote
Horses for Courses....
In the UK scooters are registered by the DVLA (DMV in the US) as "motorbicycles".
This provides for road fund license fee classification which goes up according to cc.

Motorcyclists may say different! We all know what many have to say about them and us,
particularly the black leather vest and power ranger suit clad types...hairdryers, girl's bikes, gay etc. etc.

Similarly, hard core Scooterists and Mods here have a strong view that scooters are definitely not motorcycles, being oily, dirty machines. This was the view of the originator of the Vespa, the great Corradino D'Ascanio, who did not like motorcycles at all. That dislike left us with the beautiful legacy we have now.

It's an old argument with no real resolution. The classic description of a scooter is a motor vehicle, usually with two small wheels with a step through frame but there have been many models that have had only one or neither of these elements but has been considered a scooter, like the gorgeous Maicomobil.

I love them all, being a two wheeled bisexual!

Maico-Mobil-MB200-sq jpg.jpg

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:45 am quote
TeeToo wrote:
In the UK scooters are registered by the DVLA (DMV in the US) as "motorbicycles".
This provides for road fund license fee classification which goes up according to cc.

Motorcyclists may say different! We all know what many have to say about them and us,
particularly the black leather vest and power ranger suit clad types...hairdryers, girl's bikes, gay etc. etc.

Similarly, hard core Scooterists and Mods here have a strong view that scooters are definitely not motorcycles, being oily, dirty machines. This was the view of the originator of the Vespa, the great Corradino D'Ascanio, who did not like motorcycles at all. That dislike left us with the beautiful legacy we have now.

It's an old argument with no real resolution. The classic description of a scooter is a motor vehicle, usually with two small wheels with a step through frame but there have been many models that have had only one or neither of these elements but has been considered a scooter, like the gorgeous Maicomobil.

I love them all, being a two wheeled bisexual!
Well put and that is a beautiful scooter in the pic. Hey if being bisexual means I like "real" scooters and motorcycles count me in. I draw the line and the cheap Tupperware model scooters at least to the point I would never own one.
Hooked
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Location: Irving, TX
Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:34 am quote
Madison Sully wrote:
monogodo wrote:
I've found that most RevZilla commenters are motorcycle snobs. If it doesn't fit their definition of what a motorcycle is, it's a POS toy. It's the same thing as people who think that cars with automatic transmissions are not "real" cars. Or beer snobs who say that any beer that has an IBU under 50 isn't a real beer.

The best comment on the article I saw was "all scooters are motorcycles, but not all motorcycles are scooters."
What's an IBU?
Definition of IBU:
Quote:
The International Bittering Units scale, or simply IBU scale, is used to approximately quantify the bitterness of beer. This scale is not measured on the perceived bitterness of the beer, but rather the amount of iso-alpha acids.
Hooked
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Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:36 am quote
AZScootRN wrote:
monogodo wrote:
I've found that most RevZilla commenters are motorcycle snobs. If it doesn't fit their definition of what a motorcycle is, it's a POS toy. It's the same thing as people who think that cars with automatic transmissions are not "real" cars. Or beer snobs who say that any beer that has an IBU under 50 isn't a real beer.

The best comment on the article I saw was "all scooters are motorcycles, but not all motorcycles are scooters."
Do they prefer motorcycles? Yes. However, from the article, it appears that all of those interviewed have had, or still have a scooter.

I went to the Long Beach edition of the International Motorcycle show and saw a Helix in the parking lot and so I put a business card on it. Later, I got an email from the owner of that Helix. It was Ari.

Howard
The authors are fine. it's the commenters that are asshats (as is true in most internet realms).
Thunder Thief
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Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:41 am quote
I fail to see how it matters as long as people are enjoying being outside riding, it's irrelevant
Hooked
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Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:18 am quote
froggieposition wrote:
I fail to see how it matters as long as people are enjoying being outside riding, it's irrelevant
Why should we be treated as second-class citizens when interacting with other motorcyclists (shopping for accessories/apparel, participating in online discussions, etc.)?

And why should we be willing to accept that treatment?
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Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:07 am quote
monogodo wrote:
froggieposition wrote:
I fail to see how it matters as long as people are enjoying being outside riding, it's irrelevant
Why should we be treated as second-class citizens when interacting with other motorcyclists (shopping for accessories/apparel, participating in online discussions, etc.)?

And why should we be willing to accept that treatment?
I have been to many motorcycle events with my Chinese scooter and have never been treated like a second class citizen. Most riders are even curious about what it's like. I went to a gathering last week and received oohs and a aaahs when I told them it had 17,000 miles.

Let me tell you a story. Years ago I took my late wife's Rebel to a local auto parts store when a guy on a big Metric Cruiser pulled in. "Don't you think it's time to move to something bigger," he said. "Been there, did that," I replied. "Had a 1000cc Kawasaki for 125,000 miles."

There's always some clown who thinks he knows it all. If you feel you're being treated like a second class citizen you let them get to you. After riding for 58 years I know who the squids are.
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Non Yet
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Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:42 am quote
In my opinion its a scooter when you can step trough the frame.
Thunder Thief
2010 GTS 300 Super & 2015 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Posts: 2322
Location: in the blue ridge mountains of Virginia... on the trail of the lonesome pine..."
Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:31 am quote
monogodo wrote:
froggieposition wrote:
I fail to see how it matters as long as people are enjoying being outside riding, it's irrelevant
Why should we be treated as second-class citizens when interacting with other motorcyclists (shopping for accessories/apparel, participating in online discussions, etc.)?

And why should we be willing to accept that treatment?
I have never encountered such a thing. Even if I did, I do not give a single F what other people think about me or what I ride. It is my life, my choice, and my scooter. I don't expect some reverence when I roll up to some stop.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but there are people, no matter how hard you argue, that will never see your scooter as a motorcycle, and you know what? It doesn't matter what they think. If you enjoy your ride, that is all that matters. If someone treats you like crap shopping or anything else as you listed, you need to take that stuff up with management of whatever company you are being mistreated in.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6063
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:30 pm quote
If I had a dime for every time someone made a Dumb and Dumber reference I'd probably have a dollar.

Once in a while I'll ask how much fun they had on their way to work.

It usually comes off as an inside joke.
Hooked
2017 Piaggio BV350
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Posts: 262
Location: Irving, TX
Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:25 am quote
kz1000ST wrote:
I have been to many motorcycle events with my Chinese scooter and have never been treated like a second class citizen. Most riders are even curious about what it's like. I went to a gathering last week and received oohs and a aaahs when I told them it had 17,000 miles.

Let me tell you a story. Years ago I took my late wife's Rebel to a local auto parts store when a guy on a big Metric Cruiser pulled in. "Don't you think it's time to move to something bigger," he said. "Been there, did that," I replied. "Had a 1000cc Kawasaki for 125,000 miles."

There's always some clown who thinks he knows it all. If you feel you're being treated like a second class citizen you let them get to you. After riding for 58 years I know who the squids are.
froggieposition wrote:
I have never encountered such a thing. Even if I did, I do not give a single F what other people think about me or what I ride. It is my life, my choice, and my scooter. I don't expect some reverence when I roll up to some stop.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but there are people, no matter how hard you argue, that will never see your scooter as a motorcycle, and you know what? It doesn't matter what they think. If you enjoy your ride, that is all that matters. If someone treats you like crap shopping or anything else as you listed, you need to take that stuff up with management of whatever company you are being mistreated in.
Apparently neither of you read the comments on the article. Many of the commenters look down on scooter riders and don't consider us part of the "brotherhood" of riders. Some quotes:
Quote:
I'm with Joe, scooters are not motorcycles. The riders don't even bother to wave when I pass them. They know.
Quote:
Sure, I'll wave back to them or anyone else riding. My point is that nearly none of them wave in the first place. They know.
Quote:
When I had a Honda Elite 110 I got a lot of one-finger waves from Harley-Davidson riders.

I will get another scooter when it has the following combination of features:

- Available crash bars so minor crashes do not result in major expense replacing Tupperware;
- Tire sizes for which winter scooter tires are available;
- Heated grips and enough electrical power to run heated gear.
Quote:
Comparing a scooter to a motorcycle is like comparing a golf cart to a pickup truck.
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Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:16 am quote
I think this thing can be discussed as long as hell freezes ... It is since I was a boy that this topic has not reached a conclusion.
Addicted
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 885
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:26 am quote
I think the problem goes both ways. There are some militant scooter owners out there too. Jerks come in both models.

BUT

In Albany the A Town Rumblers ran a scooter event for ten years with minimum participation. The organizers even announced that this year wasn't going to happen.

Then a local motorcycle club heard about it and offered to help since the proceeds go to the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation.

The event happened this past July with a fairly good turnout of both scooters and motorcycles.

And the contributions to JDRF continue.
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