Powder coating a P200 Fork--bearing question
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Enthusiast
15 Chief Vintage 80 P200E 12 Stella
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 82
Location: San Antonio, TX
Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:54 pm quote
Ok, I've fished around and have seen conflicting information. I want to powder coat the fork. Can I get grease back into the swing arm bearings and then superglue an o ring in place, similar to how Scooter West did in their fork rebuild video? I would prefer to powder coat as I can do it and I hate painting...
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2635

Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:01 pm quote
There is no way to get grease back in the bearings once it gets cooked out from being in a hot oven. Thereís also a smaller inner lipped seal thatís located in the swingarm pivot shaft. Either disassemble the fork in order to powder coat, or better yet just paint the fork and be done with it.
Hooked
1981 P200E / 1979 P200E / 1974 Rally 200
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 454
Location: San Francisco, CA
Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:55 pm quote
I did it. I just power coated a whole bike.

The fork pivot seemed ok. The seals were disintegrated to start with. It still pivots fine.

You can replace the pin, but you need a machine shop with a hydraulic press to do it.

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Hooked
1981 P200E / 1979 P200E / 1974 Rally 200
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 454
Location: San Francisco, CA
Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:08 am quote
This thread has some info, too.

P front axel removal from link - best method??
Hooked
Rat 2003 Stella 2T; 1979 P125x (in pieces, out for paint)
Joined: 12 Sep 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Madtown
Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:11 pm quote
hjo wrote:
The fork pivot seemed ok. The seals were disintegrated to start with.
Robot at scooterwest has a neat technique for replacing the seals. Cut the new ones, install, and superglue the ends. He shows how to do it on the video rebuilding the front hub etc. Claims itís a NASA trick.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2635

Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:52 pm quote
yackee wrote:
hjo wrote:
The fork pivot seemed ok. The seals were disintegrated to start with.
Robot at scooterwest has a neat technique for replacing the seals. Cut the new ones, install, and superglue the ends. He shows how to do it on the video rebuilding the front hub etc. Claims itís a NASA trick.
No doubt itís a NASA trick. Remember back in 1986 when the space shuttle Challenger blew up because of faulty O-rings? That oops was quite a fiasco.

Iím still not convinced that itís good for sealed bearings, grease, and O-rings to be baked at 350-450 degrees F for 30 minutes. As Julia Child would say, ďbon appetitĒ!

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Hooked
1981 P200E / 1979 P200E / 1974 Rally 200
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 454
Location: San Francisco, CA
Sat Sep 12, 2020 7:40 pm quote
[quote="whodatschrome"][quote="yackee"]
hjo wrote:
Iím still not convinced that itís good for sealed bearings, grease, and O-rings to be baked at 350-450 degrees F for 30 minutes. As Julia Child would say, ďbon appetitĒ!
Yep. TBH, powder coating a whole bike was an experiment, and one I wouldn't repeat.

Powder coating the fork was great, though. Those are so prone to rust.

But wish I had just pulled the pin and done the fork. There's no point in doing the aluminum linkage.

Everyone I've heard from has said it's too much work to replace the pin, but the mechanism there looks so simple.
Enthusiast
15 Chief Vintage 80 P200E 12 Stella
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 82
Location: San Antonio, TX
Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:56 pm quote
Thanks! I had not seen one or two of these. I think I will shop around some machine shops to see if I can get it done the right way first, and if not, plan B is to have someone paint it.
Hooked
1981 P200E / 1979 P200E / 1974 Rally 200
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 454
Location: San Francisco, CA
Sun Sep 13, 2020 2:42 pm quote
I can't find anything online about the process of removing the pin, but looks like it should be possible to remove.

It's held in by that spur thing (and a very tight fit of the bearing).

Seems like you should be able to drill out the spur, and tap out the pin with a punch, unless it requires some insane amount of pressure. But it looks like it's not much different from the way the motor mounts are in there.
Hooked
Rat 2003 Stella 2T; 1979 P125x (in pieces, out for paint)
Joined: 12 Sep 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Madtown
Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:48 pm quote
hjo wrote:
I can't find anything online about the process of removing the pin, but looks like it should be possible to remove.

It's held in by that spur thing (and a very tight fit of the bearing).

Seems like you should be able to drill out the spur, and tap out the pin with a punch, unless it requires some insane amount of pressure. But it looks like it's not much different from the way the motor mounts are in there.
Everything I've ever read about this says a hydraulic press is required. Won't you need a press anyway to get it back together

Scooterwest seems to have a gazillion used forks, at least according to a photo of their warehouse on the website. I think it would be way easier to go that route. Or buy an Indian fork through eBay if you can find one that works for you.
Hooked
1981 P200E / 1979 P200E / 1974 Rally 200
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 454
Location: San Francisco, CA
Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:33 pm quote
I think that's probably why no one does it.

You can buy a whole new steering column for $250, and every scooter shop has a pile of used PX forks.

Probably only worthwhile changing if you have the tools.

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Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2635

Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:36 pm quote
hjo wrote:
I think that's probably why no one does it.

You can buy a whole new steering column for $250, and every scooter shop has a pile of used PX forks.

Probably only worthwhile changing if you have the tools.
As an FYI, in the US, no scooter shop will have piles of PX forks. There will be some P forks, yes. But a very slim chance of finding a PX fork.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2635

Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:40 pm quote
J33pman wrote:
Thanks! I had not seen one or two of these. I think I will shop around some machine shops to see if I can get it done the right way first, and if not, plan B is to have someone paint it.
You definitely don't want just "some machine shop" to do the work. You would for sure want someone who has actually had the experience of doing that particular work on a P/PX in the past!
Hooked
1981 P200E / 1979 P200E / 1974 Rally 200
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 454
Location: San Francisco, CA
Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:44 pm quote
Here's the Scooterwest video where they do the super glue on the O ring. They powder coated the whole fork too.

youtube.com/watch?v=KProxBh5trs
Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1073
Location: Racing Capital of the World
Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:49 am quote
you can pick up decent used American made presses for a couple of hundred bucks on FB Marketplace. problem is it takes up some real estate and just how many times will you use it? ever thought about getting a shop to remove and then press fit the pin? probably set you back $40.00 for the job.
Hooked
Rat 2003 Stella 2T; 1979 P125x (in pieces, out for paint)
Joined: 12 Sep 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Madtown
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:14 am quote
I'm pretty sure Scooterwest will rebuild your fork if you send it to them. (Of course, postage would equal at least $20 each way, plus shop time). But still, under $200 I bet.
Hooked
Rat 2003 Stella 2T; 1979 P125x (in pieces, out for paint)
Joined: 12 Sep 2015
Posts: 234
Location: Madtown
Mon Sep 14, 2020 10:59 am quote
Or buy new from Scooterwest:

https://www.scooterwest.com/px-stella-fork-steering-column-20mm-216744.html

Just $219.
Enthusiast
15 Chief Vintage 80 P200E 12 Stella
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 82
Location: San Antonio, TX
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:34 pm quote
Thanks! This gives me options. Will be another month or so until I pull it, but I am shopping around for a machine shop that will press it out.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2635

Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:10 pm quote
Iíd pass on buying that Stella/PX fork from Scooterwest. It would get real expensive to install that in your P.

As long as your bearings and seals are in good shape in your P fork, youíll be time, trouble, and money into just cleaning it up really well, then squirting it with a quality automotive primer and paint.
Hooked
1981 P200E / 1979 P200E / 1974 Rally 200
Joined: 30 Jul 2009
Posts: 454
Location: San Francisco, CA
Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:47 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
Iíd pass on buying that Stella/PX fork from Scooterwest. It would get real expensive to install that in your P.
Yep. If going that route, need the one with the 16mm hub.

Scooterwest has those for $250, but they're not the same as the original ones. The fork link looks like the later style.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2635

Sun Sep 20, 2020 5:58 am quote
hjo wrote:
whodatschrome wrote:
Iíd pass on buying that Stella/PX fork from Scooterwest. It would get real expensive to install that in your P.
Yep. If going that route, need the one with the 16mm hub.

Scooterwest has those for $250, but they're not the same as the original ones. The fork link looks like the later style.
"actual item may vary from image"
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 7952
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Sep 20, 2020 2:30 pm quote
Is the link totally fubar? Like all crunchy?

Nah?

Then just hit it with some scotch-brite and dust a little primer on and blow it down with some automotive engine paint.

Problem solved.

-g
Addicted
bare metal cafe racer
Joined: 01 Sep 2017
Posts: 1000
Location: Aotearoa (New Zealand)
Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:15 am quote
Most new forks come looking pretty rough. Any which way... not hard to clean them up as per Greasy and WDC. Sure powder coated is ultimate, but kinda unnecessary. S&S sell them powder coated...

As per Greasy... clean it up, rattle can some rust protecting primer on, then blat it with whatever durable enamel you want. In my case some wheel paint.

If you don't bang it up fitting it, then not much is going to scratch it up. And hardly any of it shows unless you are running a hugger.

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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2024
Location: Veria, Greece
Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:39 am quote
On my P I split it cause it needed new pivot bearings (too much play). If you have a press it's a 10 minute job. On my T5 I sprayed it cause it was in perfect shape (even the o-rings were like new). Both were done in the original Piaggio color code (Alluminio Ruote Metallic 983)...

The new forks come with a 20mm axle. Only RMS makes a 16mm axle version and since it's RMS quality could be questionable...

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Team Scooter Trash for Petfinder Foundation   Vespa Wasp Pin Badges   AF1 Racing Vespa Austin
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