Had our 1st engine failure with the MP3
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Enthusiast
2016 Piaggio Mp3 500
Joined: 15 Aug 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Marina Del Ray, CA
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:56 am quote
Well we had our first catastrophic piston failure with only about 14k miles on the bike. Thought you guys would want to see the damage. I service these things pretty damn religiously but sometimes you don't get much warning. We do work these bikes hard and do about 200-250 miles per day for reference. In the repair process now so hopefully fixed soon.

broken piston.jpg

cracked piston.jpg

engine damage.jpg

engine view.jpg

Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 (sold) MP3 500 (current)
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 21608
Location: Nashville, Indiana
Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:29 am quote
Brings back my 2015 nightmare. I was 250 miles from home when mine died. Got the engine dropped today. Head off. NOW GOOD NEWS!

Did you notice a lot more oil in the air filter box before this happened?
Enthusiast
2016 Piaggio Mp3 500
Joined: 15 Aug 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Marina Del Ray, CA
Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:43 am quote
stickyfrog wrote:
Brings back my 2015 nightmare. I was 250 miles from home when mine died. Got the engine dropped today. Head off. NOW GOOD NEWS!

Did you notice a lot more oil in the air filter box before this happened?
Yep I drain all my airbox's daily due to that issue, and practice the 3 5's rule from Klaborde!! Insane how much oil gets inside the air filter box...
Moderatus Rana
MP3 250 (sold) MP3 500 (current)
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 21608
Location: Nashville, Indiana
Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:33 am quote
It is not supposed to. Mine was throwing increasing amounts of oil in the box up until the time the piston failed. Since I have rebuilt it almost no oil gets thrown.

It seemed to be a slow motion failure. Me and a bunch on this forum that the same thing happened to narrowed it down a few months of manufacture in 2008. Yours is a 2016 right?
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 262
Location: Belgium
Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:32 pm quote
What fuel grade are you using? The MP3 requires premium 91 (R+M/2) US unleaded to avoid this very issue.
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 288
Location: Austin, TX
Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:52 pm quote
Hyup, the dreaded piston land failure. I haven't seen that in one of the newer MP3's. The top of that piston looks pretty carboniferous, and that can contribute strongly to detonation (knocking and pinging) which it the primary cause of piston land failure according to many industry gurus. That and gas with too low octane. And riding like a bat-outta-heck.

Now that everything's open, and you can start from scratch, I recommend adding an extra half mm of base gasket to lower the compression a touch, and run only premium gas from top-tier stations, and throw a bit of seafoam down its throat every now and again to keep that carbon from building up again.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4207
Location: Netherlands Olst
Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:14 pm quote
replace reedvalve in the flywheelcover the problem starts there

its the only way to save piston rings when there is oil in the airbox
Hooked
50cc Beo, BigBeo
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 266
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
Sat Feb 22, 2020 6:44 am quote
How's that related?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6186
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:52 am quote
Jah wrote:
How's that related?
It allows the oil drain-back to work properly, reducing the amount of oil that goes to the airbox.
Hooked
50cc Beo, BigBeo
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 266
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:16 am quote
As I understand, that valve only allows air to go FROM the engine case to airbox. It does not dilute oil from air.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6186
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:32 am quote
Jah wrote:
As I understand, that valve only allows air to go FROM the engine case to airbox. It does not dilute oil from air.
True, but there is a little bitty hole that allows oil to drain back during the piston upstroke which causes the crankcase to (hopefully) pull the oil back.
Hooked
Vespa t5 Mk1
Joined: 03 Sep 2015
Posts: 112
Location: Norway
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:41 am quote
Hade a 500 engine with same ,the wall between piston ring just broke no damage to engine but a hell of an oil use, found out its was metal fault and managed to get in warranty, just over 2 years
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4207
Location: Netherlands Olst
Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:22 am quote
the reedvalve will release the overpressure also some oilmist when it is kaputt it wwill result in a lower oilpressure because it will not vibrate anymoore just spilling out droplets off oil
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3049
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:55 am quote
Re: Had our 1st engine failure with the MP3
Split Rides wrote:
Well we had our first catastrophic piston failure with only about 14k miles on the bike. Thought you guys would want to see the damage. I service these things pretty damn religiously but sometimes you don't get much warning. We do work these bikes hard and do about 200-250 miles per day for reference. In the repair process now so hopefully fixed soon.
What engine oil are you using? This can often have a bearing on stuff like this when it happens at early mileages.
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 288
Location: Austin, TX
Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:05 am quote
I never understood the mechanism for the reed valve contributing to the broken piston problem. Here's my take:

The reed valve is a one-way valve that allows blowby gas to blow off, but won't suck it back in, creating a vacuum in the crankcase. The vacuum sucks the small amount of oil that condenses or collects in the vent pipe back into the crankcase through the tiny hole that bypasses the reed valve, when the reed valve is shut on the piston upstroke. The whole system can be overwhelmed by overly light oil droplets not having the opportunity to condense in the vent pipe and escaping into the airbox, or by having a smaller gas volume and more agitation in the crankcase by overfilling with oil, or by running really hard with a worn engine, which increases the crankcase pressure so much that the oil droplets blow into the airbox without condensing in the vent pipe or without having the vacuum to be pulled back in. Thus- Klaborde's rule of 5's: 15W50 weight oil, no more than 1500 ml in the crankcase, and keep it under 5000 RPM. Otherwise- oil in the airbox.

If the reed valve doesn't work, then the crankcase aspirates way too much oil into the airbox, which burns away your oil, which leads to too much wear on the piston rings by the basic lack of lubrication when the oil gets low. But that doesn't, in and of itself, lead to broken piston ring lands. That leads to burnt pistons, and only if the oil gets low enough that your oil can't cool the piston skirts, which is pretty far down on the dipstick.

It's a chicken and egg thing- I contend that the reed valve fails *after* the piston land is already damaged, and the gas blowing out the crankcase has already overwhelmed the system because of what amounts to a hole in the compression system. So replacing the reed valve may be necessary, but it doesn't fix the root cause of the main amount of blowby, which is the worn or broken rings. There may be a few cases where a failed reed valve causes too much oil in the airbox, but I just can't see the mechanism for that issue to be related to a broken piston land. Fixing a broken reed valve will just help with oil in the airbox, if the oil in the airbox is caused by a broken reed valve. If it's caused by worn piston rings or a broken piston land, then the reed valve could be perfectly fine. As mine was when I had a broken piston land. I replaced the piston, and left the original reed valve in since it was perfectly functional, and I have *no* oil in the airbox, even after hundred-mile fast runs. At least in my case, the reed valve was fine even though I had oil in the airbox and a broken piston.
Hooked
50cc Beo, BigBeo
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 266
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
Mon Feb 24, 2020 9:47 am quote
This ^^^
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 262
Location: Belgium
Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:18 am quote
On the topic of oil, I use strictly 1.5Liters instead of the 1.7Liters specified by Piaggio. I use Eni i-Ride 5W-40 PG (Piaggio Group) exclusively.

The first time I changed the oil and put in close to 1.7Liters (up to the max line on the dipstick) my airfilter box filled up.

Since then, I only fill with 1.5Liters (oil dipstick sits on the lower end of the safe zone) and never saw a recurrence of the dreaded oil in the airfilter box syndrome.

And I change the oil and filter every 5K km. Oil and filters are cheap, engines are not.
Enthusiast
2016 Piaggio Mp3 500
Joined: 15 Aug 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Marina Del Ray, CA
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:42 am quote
stickyfrog wrote:
It is not supposed to. Mine was throwing increasing amounts of oil in the box up until the time the piston failed. Since I have rebuilt it almost no oil gets thrown.

It seemed to be a slow motion failure. Me and a bunch on this forum that the same thing happened to narrowed it down a few months of manufacture in 2008. Yours is a 2016 right?
Yep all my bikes are 2016 models 500. I own 9 of them, can't afford this happening to all 9, so sorry to say can't wait to switch out my fleet.
Enthusiast
2016 Piaggio Mp3 500
Joined: 15 Aug 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Marina Del Ray, CA
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:43 am quote
sbaert wrote:
What fuel grade are you using? The MP3 requires premium 91 (R+M/2) US unleaded to avoid this very issue.
Yep only run 91 octane unleaded which is shit, but the highest we have in California unless I wanna run race gas lol.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8686
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:44 am quote
Squeazel wrote:
I never understood the mechanism for the reed valve contributing to the broken piston problem. Here's my take:

The reed valve is a one-way valve that allows blowby gas to blow off, but won't suck it back in, creating a vacuum in the crankcase. The vacuum sucks the small amount of oil that condenses or collects in the vent pipe back into the crankcase through the tiny hole that bypasses the reed valve, when the reed valve is shut on the piston upstroke. The whole system can be overwhelmed by overly light oil droplets not having the opportunity to condense in the vent pipe and escaping into the airbox, or by having a smaller gas volume and more agitation in the crankcase by overfilling with oil, or by running really hard with a worn engine, which increases the crankcase pressure so much that the oil droplets blow into the airbox without condensing in the vent pipe or without having the vacuum to be pulled back in. Thus- Klaborde's rule of 5's: 15W50 weight oil, no more than 1500 ml in the crankcase, and keep it under 5000 RPM. Otherwise- oil in the airbox.

If the reed valve doesn't work, then the crankcase aspirates way too much oil into the airbox, which burns away your oil, which leads to too much wear on the piston rings by the basic lack of lubrication when the oil gets low. But that doesn't, in and of itself, lead to broken piston ring lands. That leads to burnt pistons, and only if the oil gets low enough that your oil can't cool the piston skirts, which is pretty far down on the dipstick.

It's a chicken and egg thing- I contend that the reed valve fails *after* the piston land is already damaged, and the gas blowing out the crankcase has already overwhelmed the system because of what amounts to a hole in the compression system. So replacing the reed valve may be necessary, but it doesn't fix the root cause of the main amount of blowby, which is the worn or broken rings. There may be a few cases where a failed reed valve causes too much oil in the airbox, but I just can't see the mechanism for that issue to be related to a broken piston land. Fixing a broken reed valve will just help with oil in the airbox, if the oil in the airbox is caused by a broken reed valve. If it's caused by worn piston rings or a broken piston land, then the reed valve could be perfectly fine. As mine was when I had a broken piston land. I replaced the piston, and left the original reed valve in since it was perfectly functional, and I have *no* oil in the airbox, even after hundred-mile fast runs. At least in my case, the reed valve was fine even though I had oil in the airbox and a broken piston.
Your understanding of the reed valve is wrong, it does suck oil back.
Enthusiast
2016 Piaggio Mp3 500
Joined: 15 Aug 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Marina Del Ray, CA
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:48 am quote
Squeazel wrote:
Hyup, the dreaded piston land failure. I haven't seen that in one of the newer MP3's. The top of that piston looks pretty carboniferous, and that can contribute strongly to detonation (knocking and pinging) which it the primary cause of piston land failure according to many industry gurus. That and gas with too low octane. And riding like a bat-outta-heck.

Now that everything's open, and you can start from scratch, I recommend adding an extra half mm of base gasket to lower the compression a touch, and run only premium gas from top-tier stations, and throw a bit of seafoam down its throat every now and again to keep that carbon from building up again.
Yep my guess is the riding like a bat-outta heck lol.... I only run premium fuel in the bikes, but 91 octane is still crappy... I miss the days of east coast Sunoco 94 octane at the pumps, hell even Sunoco had 100 octane. Seafoam does work great for cleaning carbon build-up, never tried it in bikes, but used it many times to help older cars pass smog and retard the timing slightly
Enthusiast
2016 Piaggio Mp3 500
Joined: 15 Aug 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Marina Del Ray, CA
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:53 am quote
Re: Had our 1st engine failure with the MP3
Stromrider wrote:
Split Rides wrote:
Well we had our first catastrophic piston failure with only about 14k miles on the bike. Thought you guys would want to see the damage. I service these things pretty damn religiously but sometimes you don't get much warning. We do work these bikes hard and do about 200-250 miles per day for reference. In the repair process now so hopefully fixed soon.
What engine oil are you using? This can often have a bearing on stuff like this when it happens at early mileages.
Hi I'm using Motul 300V 15w50 every 3,000 miles changing with a new filter.

But literally all my bikes I have to top off oil at least once a week since new!! Thirsty girls!!! lol
Enthusiast
2016 Piaggio Mp3 500
Joined: 15 Aug 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Marina Del Ray, CA
Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:57 am quote
sbaert wrote:
On the topic of oil, I use strictly 1.5Liters instead of the 1.7Liters specified by Piaggio. I use Eni i-Ride 5W-40 PG (Piaggio Group) exclusively.

The first time I changed the oil and put in close to 1.7Liters (up to the max line on the dipstick) my airfilter box filled up.

Since then, I only fill with 1.5Liters (oil dipstick sits on the lower end of the safe zone) and never saw a recurrence of the dreaded oil in the airfilter box syndrome.

And I change the oil and filter every 5K km. Oil and filters are cheap, engines are not.
Yes sir I do the same only fill 1.5L of oil but I switched to a thicker Motul 15w50 to also help with burning of oil and excessive blow-by in the airbox. Keeping it under 5,000 rpm's however is not realistic for our use, as you would get run over on the freeways or possibly shot for driving to slow lol.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8686
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:25 am quote
Split Rides wrote:
Squeazel wrote:
Hyup, the dreaded piston land failure. I haven't seen that in one of the newer MP3's. The top of that piston looks pretty carboniferous, and that can contribute strongly to detonation (knocking and pinging) which it the primary cause of piston land failure according to many industry gurus. That and gas with too low octane. And riding like a bat-outta-heck.

Now that everything's open, and you can start from scratch, I recommend adding an extra half mm of base gasket to lower the compression a touch, and run only premium gas from top-tier stations, and throw a bit of seafoam down its throat every now and again to keep that carbon from building up again.
Yep my guess is the riding like a bat-outta heck lol.... I only run premium fuel in the bikes, but 91 octane is still crappy... I miss the days of east coast Sunoco 94 octane at the pumps, hell even Sunoco had 100 octane. Seafoam does work great for cleaning carbon build-up, never tried it in bikes, but used it many times to help older cars pass smog and retard the timing slightly
Anything over 91 will just cause carbon build up on the pistons and head.
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 262
Location: Belgium
Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:48 am quote
Re: Had our 1st engine failure with the MP3
Split Rides wrote:
...
Hi I'm using Motul 300V 15w50 every 3,000 miles changing with a new filter.

But literally all my bikes I have to top off oil at least once a week since new!! Thirsty girls!!! lol


I think this is a clue. I drive my MP3 hard, and never ever have to add a drop of oil between oil changes 5K km/3K mi.

I don't think using that thicker oil is doing you any favors. These bikes are very finicky as it is, with very little in terms of fluid capacity (on all fronts). I'd stick with the recommended stuff.

It would be one thing to have one bike that burns more oil than the others, but all of them? Nah.

Also, how were these bikes broken in when new? Regardless of advances and claims manufacturers may make I still break in all my vehicles old school style. NO wide open throttle acceleration or top speed during the first 1500 miles, and those first 1500 miles are covered using a diverse set of driving styles and speeds (i.e. no long distance runs with the motor turning X rpm) that gradually ramps up the rpms. When the motor has done 3K miles, I consider it to be fully run in. Also, oil change at 600 miles followed by another at 1500 miles, and then the final one at 3K miles with full oil analysis.
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 288
Location: Austin, TX
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:26 pm quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
Your understanding of the reed valve is wrong, it does suck oil back.
Maybe some oil leaks back through the valve incidentally when there's too much for the bypass hole to handle, but that's not the reed valve's purpose.. The purpose of a one-way valve that flows toward the airbox is to create a vacuum in the crankcase. Not to suck oil back into the crankcase. Because the reed valve is open when the stuff (air, oil droplets) is *leaving* the crankcase. The valve closes when the pressure is greater outside the crankcase than inside the crankcase. If the purpose of the reed valve were to suck oil back into the crankcase, it would be open when flowing toward the crankcase, which is isn't.

The actual sucking of oil is done through the little bypass hole, at the bottom of the whole system, where any condensed oil is supposed to pool. By the vacuum in the crankcase that was created by the reed valve. Which is exactly what I said above.

Last edited by Squeazel on Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 288
Location: Austin, TX
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:36 pm quote
Yeah, it's weird that they all are using lots of oil. In defense of Split Rides, there probably wasn't much control of the break-in process if they're part of a rental fleet. They were probably broken in by the "ride them like you stole them" school of engine break-in.
Enthusiast
2016 Piaggio Mp3 500
Joined: 15 Aug 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Marina Del Ray, CA
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:00 am quote
Re: Had our 1st engine failure with the MP3
sbaert wrote:
Split Rides wrote:
...
Hi I'm using Motul 300V 15w50 every 3,000 miles changing with a new filter.

But literally all my bikes I have to top off oil at least once a week since new!! Thirsty girls!!! lol


I think this is a clue. I drive my MP3 hard, and never ever have to add a drop of oil between oil changes 5K km/3K mi.

I don't think using that thicker oil is doing you any favors. These bikes are very finicky as it is, with very little in terms of fluid capacity (on all fronts). I'd stick with the recommended stuff.

It would be one thing to have one bike that burns more oil than the others, but all of them? Nah.

Also, how were these bikes broken in when new? Regardless of advances and claims manufacturers may make I still break in all my vehicles old school style. NO wide open throttle acceleration or top speed during the first 1500 miles, and those first 1500 miles are covered using a diverse set of driving styles and speeds (i.e. no long distance runs with the motor turning X rpm) that gradually ramps up the rpms. When the motor has done 3K miles, I consider it to be fully run in. Also, oil change at 600 miles followed by another at 1500 miles, and then the final one at 3K miles with full oil analysis.
Unfortunately we purchased the bikes used, so not sure how they all were broken in? But I agree with your break in procedures!
Enthusiast
2016 Piaggio Mp3 500
Joined: 15 Aug 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Marina Del Ray, CA
Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:04 am quote
Squeazel wrote:
Yeah, it's weird that they all are using lots of oil. In defense of Split Rides, there probably wasn't much control of the break-in process if they're part of a rental fleet. They were probably broken in by the "ride them like you stole them" school of engine break-in.
Yeah we purchased all bikes used with around 1,000-2,500 miles on them, all 2016 models. I have heard both opinions of break-in procedures, even heard old school people saying break them in hard and they last forever LOL, I don't agree with that theory, but a loose motor is a fast motor until she blows up haha!!
Ossessionato
2016 MP3/500 Sport ABS, 2009 MP3/250, 2012 GTS Super 300ie
Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 4295
Location: Marietta, GA
Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:43 am quote
OMG... Bad Memory's to read this Thread.
Sorry you had the Failure, I hope it's not like Domino's for you until your "Alternative" is in place.

Love the Bike, Hate the Engine...
I still have my MP3/250; this is a Keeper.

Have not been on MV for a while, we have had so much rain, I have not done that much riding in the past year. Hoping to ride more Spring/Summer.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
Enthusiast
2016 Piaggio Mp3 500
Joined: 15 Aug 2019
Posts: 52
Location: Marina Del Ray, CA
Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:03 am quote
klaborde wrote:
OMG... Bad Memory's to read this Thread.
Sorry you had the Failure, I hope it's not like Domino's for you until your "Alternative" is in place.

Love the Bike, Hate the Engine...
I still have my MP3/250; this is a Keeper.

Have not been on MV for a while, we have had so much rain, I have not done that much riding in the past year. Hoping to ride more Spring/Summer.

Keith,
Marietta, GA
Thanks Keith for all your help and knowledge and good luck! Hope you get to ride soon and the weather clears up!! I have another bike in the shop now with CEL light on and ASR light comes on and goes off, so we shall see what that is...
Member
Gilera Fuoco
Joined: 13 Aug 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Russia
Tue Sep 08, 2020 3:10 pm quote
Squeazel wrote:
The reed valve is a one-way valve that allows blowby gas to blow off, but won't suck it back in, creating a vacuum in the crankcase.
Hello there
I have a severe problem with the engine oil consumption and accumulation in the filter box.

(Guilera Fuoko 2009, 16,000 km, bought used in May 2020)

I fill up to the upper mark on the dipstick and drive 200-300 km at a speed of about 100 km / h. After the trip, the oil is at the bottom mark and I drain about 100 grams of oil from the filter box.

Using the recommended oil 5W40 Motul 7100 and it ridings is very expensive, hehe.
I assume that I need to do a flaw detection of the rings and piston.
Could you show this valve on the diagram in the catalog? Thank!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6186
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:12 pm quote
gluck wrote:
Squeazel wrote:
The reed valve is a one-way valve that allows blowby gas to blow off, but won't suck it back in, creating a vacuum in the crankcase.
Hello there
I have a severe problem with the engine oil consumption and accumulation in the filter box.

(Guilera Fuoko 2009, 16,000 km, bought used in May 2020)

I fill up to the upper mark on the dipstick and drive 200-300 km at a speed of about 100 km / h. After the trip, the oil is at the bottom mark and I drain about 100 grams of oil from the filter box.

Using the recommended oil 5W40 Motul 7100 and it ridings is very expensive, hehe.
I assume that I need to do a flaw detection of the rings and piston.
Could you show this valve on the diagram in the catalog? Thank!
Two things. First, clean your air filter. Then, suck oil out of the sump until it is something less than 1mm over the minimum fill level for motor oil. Then ride it.
Member
Gilera Fuoco
Joined: 13 Aug 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Russia
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:23 pm quote
Madison Sully wrote:
Two things. First, clean your air filter. Then, suck oil out of the sump until it is something less than 1mm over the minimum fill level for motor oil. Then ride it.
I have been doing this since May 2020. I forgot to say that after such a trip you need to add 1 liter of oil to the crankcase.

Tell me please, in the winter I have to remove the piston and look for broken off pieces?
Hooked
50cc Beo, BigBeo
Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 266
Location: Chelyabinsk, Russia
Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:52 pm quote
Probably you should. If you want, contact me vk.com/gray_monsta and ask in Russian.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6186
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:41 am quote
gluck wrote:
Madison Sully wrote:
Two things. First, clean your air filter. Then, suck oil out of the sump until it is something less than 1mm over the minimum fill level for motor oil. Then ride it.
I have been doing this since May 2020. I forgot to say that after such a trip you need to add 1 liter of oil to the crankcase.

Tell me please, in the winter I have to remove the piston and look for broken off pieces?
If you are filling the oil to the max mark on the dipstick, you will always have blown oil in your airbox. The oil level needs to be at the minimum mark.
Member
Gilera Fuoco
Joined: 13 Aug 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Russia
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:06 am quote
Jah, thamks, I'll wrote to you through VK.
Madison Sully wrote:
If you are filling the oil to the max mark on the dipstick, you will always have blown oil in your airbox. The oil level needs to be at the minimum mark.
Yes, I fill oil up to the upper mark of the dipstick.
After a riding to 200-400 km, the oil is below the lower mark. Theoretically, this state may be for quite a long time, but I am afraid of oil starvation.
"Low oil pressure" lamp is no light.
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 288
Location: Austin, TX
Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:46 am quote
The reed valve is located inside the right crankcase cover, but I don't think that's the problem. You can test it by opening the filler cap, taking the breather hose off the air cleaner and blowing on it (it shouldn't let any air into the crankcase) and sucking on it (it should allow some air out of the crankcase and probably with a moaning sound).

Even if the reed valve works, it sounds like you have excessive blow-by of crankcase gasses. It may be due to the broken piston problem, or it could just be engine wear. You should think about rebuilding your top end- new piston, rings, cylinder and grind the valves and replace the valve guides and seals. You might be able to get by with just a new piston and rings if your cylinder is good, but it can't be machined since it's nikasil coated aluminum. Any damage to the cylinder at all requires replacement.

Good luck, and please post your progress!
Member
Gilera Fuoco
Joined: 13 Aug 2020
Posts: 20
Location: Russia
Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:01 am quote
Squeazel wrote:
The reed valve is located inside the right crankcase cover, but I don't think that's the problem.
Thanks, and I also don't think the reed valve (82778R) is to blame. I am more inclined towards the death of the piston and rings.

But today I was driving around the city at a speed of 100...130 km/h and my engine showed very good power, like my former old Shadow 1100. And here something does not converge... It cannot be that the chipped piston shows such great power.

Maybe I'll find a mechanic with an endoscope and look at the piston from above.
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 288
Location: Austin, TX
Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:47 pm quote
Most of the people with the broken piston problem didn't see any loss of power- the airbox just had more and more oil in it over time. Maybe 10 ml, then 50 ml, then 100 ml over a couple of years. Until the broken piston got a hole in it- then there was lots of noise and lost power. But then it's too late.

The pistons would break between the first and second ring, and it would just leak too much combustion gas between the rings, but everything stayed in place until it really broke. My piston was just cracked, and it was losing 50 ml in 100 km. It doesn't take much of a leak when the explosion happens to send a whole bunch of gasses out the breather tube.

I was lucky- my cylinder was not scored, so I just replaced the piston and rings. Now the airbox is dry, but I use 20w50 oil and I only fill it to about 3 mm above the bottom of the dipstick.

If you replace the piston, there are four sizes: "A", "B", "C" and "D". Your piston will be stamped on the top with one of those letters. Buy the part number with -001 for "A", -002 for "B", etc. Use very light ball honing on the cylinder just to break the glaze- just a few seconds- you absolutely do *not* want to go through the hardened coating on the cylinder.

Good Luck!
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