Another Vespa LX project
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Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:54 am quote
Hi All, picked up another Vespa LX project this weekend, my third Vespa since January - how addictive are these little things! It does not start and wants minor works but, all being well, I will get it going and my Son will swap it for his Kymco 50cc until he passes his driving test. I will, no doubt be asking for advice at some point, but pic below of new purchase for now.

IMG_1226.jpg

Hooked
LX125, Beverly 350
Joined: 05 Aug 2013
Posts: 314
Location: NE Scotland
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:12 am quote
Am jealous! i have a LX125 that is broken into bits because of the frame rotting out. Am on the hunt for a LX frame that i can transplant the engine into.

Red is the fastest colour!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Lx 50 4T, GTS 250, S 150 (Missing in KS), Something Chinese, GT 200 (sold)
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 8830
Location: KS USA
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:42 am quote
Nice project.

Advice is what we give best!

Have fun.
Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:16 pm quote
Well it wasnít long before I needed the help of you Vespa camaraderieís! This 07 125 wonít start. I sorted all the fuel and vacuum lines and the pet cock valve. Problem is no fuel is getting to the carb. I checked the valve and if vacuum is applied fuel flows as it should but when I connect the lines back up no fuel reaches the carb. Iíve checked for leaks elsewhere, including the intake and non are apparent. Iíve run out of ideas! Please step in with suggestions.

B426BA35-E4D3-4508-99AF-6A079D4307A3.jpeg

Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 1076
Location: Toronto
Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:29 pm quote
Does the photo show current setup? Maybe a trick of the photo, but it doesn't look like your fuel line runs back from the carb to the petcock?

The vacuum line routing also looks a bit odd angled. Is that connected correctly?
Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:56 pm quote
Try this pic. Iím convinced all the pipes are routed correctly and in good condition. The patrol valve defo works but there is still no vacuum. What does the pipe or go to on the rhs of the brass manifold Y piece? Thanks.

C5733B77-84E5-4C0D-9A57-3A5C2E525A56.jpeg

Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 1076
Location: Toronto
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:16 am quote
Thanks! That's more what I expected.

How are you checking for fuel flow reaching the carb? Is it the case that if you disconnect the line from the carb and crank the bike, no fuel comes out (no vacuum in the line)? Or that nothing comes out the float bowl drain (maybe a stuck float needle)?

The pipe on the RHS of the manifold goes to the secondary air system emissions control. As a test, I think you could disconnect and cap it to see if it helps. (To permanently remove the SAS, you also need to put a blanking plate at the cylinder end. Or this hack.)
Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:44 am quote
Hi berto. To check the fuel tap on the bottom of the tank I disconnected the vac pipe from the Y piece, disconnected the fuel pipe from the carb and then sucked on the vac pipe and petrol ran out of the fuel pipe. I put the fuel pipe back on, tried to start it and sucked on the vac line at the same time to get fuel into the carb. Still nothing.tonight I will try blocking off the right hand pipe and see what happens. I can only think the vac is leaking somewhere but I canít find it. Yet! Thanks.
Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 1076
Location: Toronto
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:21 am quote
cbdubs wrote:
Hi berto. To check the fuel tap on the bottom of the tank I disconnected the vac pipe from the Y piece, disconnected the fuel pipe from the carb and then sucked on the vac pipe and petrol ran out of the fuel pipe. I put the fuel pipe back on, tried to start it and sucked on the vac line at the same time to get fuel into the carb. Still nothing.tonight I will try blocking off the right hand pipe and see what happens. I can only think the vac is leaking somewhere but I canít find it. Yet! Thanks.
Hmmm... that means it wouldn't start, but doesn't tell you the carb has no fuel? Based on fuel flowing when you sucked on it, I would actually think the carb must have fuel now that you "manually" primed it by sucking on the vacuum line.

Are you sure it's not a spark problem? You've confirmed you are getting spark?

You could check if the carb has fuel in it by opening up the drain screw and checking fuel comes out. You could also try starting fluid in the intake to see if you get any running.

You could check for vacuum by disconnecting the fuel line from carb, but leave the vacuum line attached, and testing if fuel flows during cranking.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Lx 50 4T, GTS 250, S 150 (Missing in KS), Something Chinese, GT 200 (sold)
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 8830
Location: KS USA
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:10 am quote
berto wrote:
cbdubs wrote:
Hi berto. To check the fuel tap on the bottom of the tank I disconnected the vac pipe from the Y piece, disconnected the fuel pipe from the carb and then sucked on the vac pipe and petrol ran out of the fuel pipe. I put the fuel pipe back on, tried to start it and sucked on the vac line at the same time to get fuel into the carb. Still nothing.tonight I will try blocking off the right hand pipe and see what happens. I can only think the vac is leaking somewhere but I canít find it. Yet! Thanks.
Hmmm... that means it wouldn't start, but doesn't tell you the carb has no fuel? Based on fuel flowing when you sucked on it, I would actually think the carb must have fuel now that you "manually" primed it by sucking on the vacuum line.

Are you sure it's not a spark problem? You've confirmed you are getting spark?

You could check if the carb has fuel in it by opening up the drain screw and checking fuel comes out. You could also try starting fluid in the intake to see if you get any running.

You could check for vacuum by disconnecting the fuel line from carb, but leave the vacuum line attached, and testing if fuel flows during cranking.
Berto,

Between sucking or blowing into the wrong lines I would probably end up with a mouth full of gasoline
Addicted
2006 LX 50
Joined: 16 Jun 2017
Posts: 527
Location: Warren MI
Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:35 am quote
If you apply vacuum (suction) to the hose removed from the brass nipple in the intake manifold and get fuel out of the fuel line, but don't get fuel when the hose is reconnected to the nipple during crank, it sounds like the engine does not create vacuum while cranking. Does it crank really fast, like a broken timing chain?

I would think if it was a fuel issue you could plug the brass nipple, apply vacuum to the line, and the scooter would start. Otherwise look elsewhere.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Lx 50 4T, GTS 250, S 150 (Missing in KS), Something Chinese, GT 200 (sold)
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 8830
Location: KS USA
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:22 am quote
Dumb Question
Is it not normal for an LX 50 after sitting for a while to be hard to start?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Lx 50 4T, GTS 250, S 150 (Missing in KS), Something Chinese, GT 200 (sold)
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 8830
Location: KS USA
Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:23 am quote
I know the OP has a 150.
Hooked
lml 2t 150 with sidecar, Vespa ET4 150cc
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 276
Location: Wales
Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:49 pm quote
Try a squirt of easy start down the air filter pipe if it doesn't fire you'll know problems elsewhere. I find it a lot quicker on things that have sat a while.
Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Fri Sep 18, 2020 4:17 am quote
Well, had many hours out on the drive playing last night as Wife had mates round and was more than happy for me to stay out of the way! After much sucking and blocking pipes, took the carb top off and put some fresh fuel in. Tried starting it with the starter and nothing. As the battery was getting flat I used the kicker and second kick, off it went! I let it tick over for about a minute and it was good. Nice and stable, just starting to turn the back wheel. I then noticed the new petcock valve the PO fitted was leaking quite bad all over the exhaust so I turned it off and didn't try it again. Was very happy bunny though!
Decided to check valves as it was knocking a little on tick over - god, what a job that is! Couldn't get to one of the valve cover bolts so ended up grinding down a socket to make it shorter to fit. Once the last bolt was out, I couldn't get the valve cover out of the hole. A quick google and someone on here had advised to take it off the centre stand as it changes the engine angle - can't remember who posted it but what a bloody star they are so thank you! Set valves and noticed the two gaskets are knackered and leaking so have ordered replacements which are due tomorrow. Tonight I'll sort the petrol leak, change gaskets tomorrow and see if she fires up again.
Many thanks to all those who have offered advice. Your time is much appreciated
Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 1076
Location: Toronto
Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:30 am quote
cbdubs wrote:
took the carb top off and put some fresh fuel in. Tried starting it with the starter and nothing. As the battery was getting flat I used the kicker and second kick, off it went!
Great news! But this leaves me confused about the root cause

Seems to me it wasn't fuel after all. And couldn't have been spark, since it eventually started without your changing anything there. Just a weak battery maybe?
Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:55 am quote
Maybe the battery but it was fully charged and it looked quite new but who knows. There was defo a spark as I checked that. Itís all good now. Hope it starts when I put it back together tomorrow, Iíll let you know. Fingers crossed.
Ossessionato
Vintage Red 2007 GTS, Black Vespa LX150, 2007 Goodwood Green Triumph Bonneville!
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 2152
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Fri Sep 18, 2020 8:59 am quote
To me the most impressive thing about what you've done is that you were able to kick start an LX!!!! I've never been sucessful with that...

Congrats on making good progress, how you get it all sorted out soon! Fun project.

-Dan
Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:48 am quote
I just hope it starts again and it wasnít just running on the fuel that I put in the carb rather than using it from the tank.
Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:09 am quote
Well, after setting the valves, refitting the cover with two new gaskets at the weekend tried to start it up last night. Nothing doing. Fitted a new starter motor and still nothing. No petrol through to the carb. I noticed the petcock valve was leaking. Tried tightening up the clamp but that made no difference. This valve was newly fitted by the PO. He did leave the old one in the top box so I tried refitting that. Turns out the new one was leaking through a vent hole hence no vacuum! With the old one back one it started and ran by using the kicker. Moral of the story here is just because itís a new part doesnít mean it canít be faulty! Still wonít start electrically so that needs more investigation. Also when it runs in tick over it does knock a bit so will remove the variator and check rollers etc and clean everything up and see if that makes a difference. Iím nearly there but a bit more fettling to do yet. Would love to get electric start working too. Feel free to chip in with comments as all advice great fully received. Thanks.
Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:15 am quote
Did a bit more yesterday. Took off the belt cover to investigate further. Wedged the locking tool in and tried to remove the nut but the whole shaft still turned.

IMG_1246.jpg

Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:17 am quote
Managed to get grinder in to cut the nut off and found the splines had been smoothed out. The probably explains why the electric start wont start the bike either!

IMG_1249.jpg

Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:19 am quote
WhilstI'm waiting for the new pulley to arrive, can some one advise if these rollers look ok? They still appear to be round and smooth but would like confirmation I can refit them. I also can't find the correct weight, manual says 8.7g and nearest I can find is 9g. If I need to replace them, would these be ok?
Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:19 am quote
Pic attached now

IMG_1250.jpg

Hooked
2010 S50 Modified "Punkin"; 2003 ET4 150 "ISO"
Joined: 18 Feb 2017
Posts: 463
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:58 am quote
Greetings:

Those rollers appear to be perfect and can be re-installed. My worry is that if the splines are ground off the Drive Face, what do the splines on the crank look like?
Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:44 am quote
Hi. Luckily the splines on the crank look good. Itís just the pulley thatís knackered. Should the crank splines be greased? They are bone dry currently and I was wondering if thatís they should be?
Hooked
2010 S50 Modified "Punkin"; 2003 ET4 150 "ISO"
Joined: 18 Feb 2017
Posts: 463
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:32 am quote
Greetings:

That is fortunate.
I usually put a SUPER-THIN dollop of anti-seize on splines, but that's just me. Use a paper towel to wipe off the grease - just a little will stay in the troughs of the splines. It's a disaster if the stuff spins off and contaminates the belt or drive faces. Don' Axt me how I know...
Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:43 am quote
Hi. Please can someone point me in the direction of how the variator assembled goes together. I canít find an image which has the kick start on too. Should it be from engine out, thin washer, slider holder thing, roller holder, then long bush down the middle, then starter motor cog, washer, kick start collar then another washer then nut? Iím a bit stuck. Thanks.
Addicted
2009 LX 150, 2008 GTS 250
Joined: 19 Jun 2011
Posts: 743
Location: Birmingham, Alabama, USA
Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:51 pm quote
Probably your best bet is to watch this video.

[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jiEA9SXhtng]

Bill
Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Mon Sep 28, 2020 3:26 pm quote
Thanks for that. I did see that but he only had one washer I could see. I have two. Should my second one be in between the nut and the kick start part?
Enthusiast
GTS 300 70th Anniversary
Joined: 12 Mar 2020
Posts: 79
Location: Scarborough UK
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:07 pm quote
If anyone can help that would be great! I didnít check my I took it apart as I think the PO had already been in there and it definitely wasnít right when I took it to bits.
Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 1076
Location: Toronto
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:41 am quote
AF1 racing has parts diagrams for all Vespas on their site. The assembly drawing should show all the parts and how they fit together.
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