Vespa Trike
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Member
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 49
Location: Kansas City
Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:35 pm quote
I have decided that I am going to build one of these!





I saw this many years ago and have been looking for a donor bike for years. In the process I have acquired two that were a) too nice to chop and b) too expensive to chop. So the stable is growing but the donor has not shown up.

I was looking for a real project but all of those had crazy prices (more than $1K for a junker).

I recently found a donor, and despite the fact that it is too nice to chop, and too expensive to chop, I am going to chop it because I am running out of patience.





I want the back to have the roundness of the early scoots. So this 1965 Allstate Cruisaire is the deal. I have two Allstate forks (been collecting) and will have the one swapped to be left handed for the 'other' front wheel.

This is the plan:

1. I am going to strip the scoot down completely.
2. I am going to cut the frame as far forward as I can, just before it turns up. In the above fabrication they cut it closer to the back from what I can gather.
3. I am going to fabricate a floor extension and tie it back into the floor spine and floor boards.
4. I am going to fabricate a tube front end.
5. All controls remain wire. Not sure how I am going to set up the brakes, but I want all three to be functional. I also want a hand brake of sorts.
6. So, pedals for clutch, brakes and throttle using cables. Will need to make custom brackets.
7. Gear selector will be a custom box on the right hand side that will be just like a sequential shifter.
8. Going to build a custom dash board.
9. Will put in a go-cart seat and cut the area by the helmet holder back to be straight up. My seat will go higher than the one in the original picture.
10. Will build the entire scoot without the front body work.
11. For the front body work I was planning on using a sidecar shell or maybe an open wheel race car nose cone (formula V or formula Ford)
12. I will rebuild the engine with a Pinasco 177 head.
13. Instead of a steering wheel I will try to use the headset.
14. Lots and lots, and lots and lots of details to work out, but should be fun.

Right now I am 900 miles from home, and could be here for a while. So may be some time before there is an update.

Stay tuned.
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2040
Location: Veria, Greece
Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:40 pm quote
No offense but killing a beautiful Allstate like this one is a crime and you should be locked behind bars

Get a freaking P, PX, Stella and chop the hell out of it...
Molto Verboso
BV200, P200E (2),V90 and now a Big Ruckus
Joined: 07 Aug 2010
Posts: 1629
Location: Mims, Florida USA
Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:13 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
No offense but killing a beautiful Allstate like this one is a crime and you should be locked behind bars

Get a freaking P, PX, Stella and chop the hell out of it...
This or buy a bodge, they're already 2 or 3 piece frames.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7879
Location: seattle/athens
Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:25 pm quote
Yes it's an AllState, but not so scarce here and
Quote:
I want the back to have the roundness of the early scoots.
so better this than a Sprint or VBA etc. Besides if he removes the front carefully, he can sell it on to somebody that needs it. He's living his dream and already knows Vespas. I say GO!



PS not a trike! or is it?
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2284

Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:58 pm quote
This is so cool, this would be the perfect project for that frame that was severely abused.
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8022
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:05 pm quote
Iím conflicted and I have so many questions...

Conflicted because of cutting up a relatively clean Allstate.

Questions: how in the F on those forks knuckles? And whatever that suspension is.

But I can guarantee this thing handles like a bag full of ass.

If youíre gonna go with it two things:

1- do yourself a favor and use a modern ATV front suspension.

2- I have a somewhat solid indo bodge that Iíll give to you (itís got an early P150 motor) Just pay the shipping. Hell, Iíll even flip you a mid 80ís px for a song.

-g
Member
Joined: 02 Oct 2019
Posts: 31
Location: RI
Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:09 pm quote
I love this. The concept is brilliant, but the cockpit needs help. Do it right!

Also, a few design notes:

I'd move the headlamps forward... above or almost above the front axle... like an old beach buggy. And a little windscreen a la Steve McQueen.

And the exhaust on your photo is reminiscent of the floor board tread. Should your trike have Vespa-style running boards?

You'll have room for batteries if you wanted to electric.

Go over the top and work in a modified front end of an MP3 so you can lean into the curves.

No matter how you do it, it's a great idea, I can't wait to see it turn out.
Member
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 49
Location: Kansas City
Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:52 pm quote
Thanks for the comments and interest. Yes, I too am conflicted about destroying what would be an easy restoration of a solid Allstate. But I have genuinely been looking for a donor bike for a long time and have not found anything in the price range I was willing to spend. Just bit the bullet on this purchase.

I have had a long time to think about how I would build the body on the trike. I love your suggestions and agree what I will do will be completely different. I like a rounder nose that will be closed. I want a dash. Finished cockpit. I was toying with the idea of welding cowls together to go over the front wheels creating fenders like a Bugatti Atlantic; and putting the headlights in there.

The front suspension is all Vespa. The frame is rigid and the suspension is simply the lower part of the fork. I love that. It is so period. But again agreeing that the handling will be rather crappy. It may be a little better than expected because of the lower center of gravity.

Greasy, I may very well take you up ion your offer and put the trike build off while I restore the this Cruisare. I just really want to get started on this trike build!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7949
Location: Victoria, Australia
Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:49 pm quote
Love it! So glad you're doing it... looks like a bunch of fun.

Chopping that one up means the rest of the Allstates just got a little rarer and worth just a touch more.
I've collected a handful of 3 wheeler pictures, I'll see if there's anything useful after work.
Hooked
58 VB1T, 68 SS180, 81 100 Sport
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 433
Location: Long Beach, CA
Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:40 am quote
I'm down for some custom build work when done right.

Please don't chop that Allstate. That in its current state is a dream bike for some. Hell, If I was local I'd take it off your hands. That really is too nice of a complete scooter to simply chop in half...

I understand the pressure of patience and the anxiety of wanting to get moving on something now.... practice your patiences and wait for the right donor.

Find a bodge, or take up Greasy's offer. That sounds like the right fit! with a motor no less. Flip that Allstate to someone else to ride as is or restore. Then go to town on your bodge-built trike!
Member
Ď60 VBB Ď79CT90
Joined: 25 Dec 2019
Posts: 42
Location: Chico CA
Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:57 am quote
That trike reminds me of these
https://vanderhallusa.com/autocycle/
Enthusiast
Owned Vespa Rally 200, V90, Li150 series II...now a PX200
Joined: 26 Jun 2018
Posts: 99
Location: Fukui, Japan From San Diego
Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:11 am quote
Man that bike would be $5000-$6000 in that condition! where I live! I would look for a bodge since they are pieces put together anyway, but it's your bike so.

I'm actually looking forward to this as I love customs! Good luck!
Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 1179
Location: California
Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:12 am quote
following with interest and please move forward with the Allstate
Member
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 49
Location: Kansas City
Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:30 am quote
V oodoo wrote:
PS not a trike! or is it?
Yes it's a trike. Here is another picture of the thing (best resolution I could find). I have spent hours trying to find more pics in the web. I reached out to the Vespa club that it belongs to in France a while back but have not had a response. I want more details on the whole front end.

Ginch wrote:
I've collected a handful of 3 wheeler pictures, I'll see if there's anything useful after work.
Please please share. I am excited to see some others and get some ideas.
GeekLion wrote:
Ötake up Greasy's offer. That sounds like the right fit!
Seems like Greasyís offer has created some new opportunities; and maybe headaches. Two builds instead of one.
Grumpnut wrote:
That trike reminds me of theseÖ
7 HP vs 700 HP!

I don't want to change the topic of this thread but regarding the Allstate do I repaint or keep the patina? Can you match Patina? I want to get the rust off the floorboards.
Ossessionato
1963 VBB2T
Joined: 07 Nov 2012
Posts: 2284

Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:45 am quote
I would suggest patina , 100%.
Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1748
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:39 am quote
Chatis wrote:
I don't want to change the topic of this thread but regarding the Allstate do I repaint or keep the patina? Can you match Patina? I want to get the rust off the floorboards.
My suggestion would be to just touch up the floor boards.

You can bring in the rear rack to a decent paint shop and have them mix up a quart of something that matches a portion of the rack. Then clean up the scoot, and only touch up the areas that are too far gone for rust and protection, like the floor rails. I took off the floor rails on my 62 Allstate and just sprayed the floor boards, and inside the glove box cowl. Allowed me to keep the "aged scooter" look and still protected it and cleaned it nicely.

My 2 cents. I'll be following your progress!
Moderator
P200 VNB Li125
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4432
Location: Hustletown, TX
Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:45 am quote
greasy125 wrote:
Iím conflicted and I have so many questions...

Conflicted because of cutting up a relatively clean Allstate...

Yep.

(Take G-man up on his P offer.)

Still... will be fun to watch either way.
Hooked
Rat 2003 Stella 2T; 1979 P125x (in pieces, out for paint)
Joined: 12 Sep 2015
Posts: 252
Location: Madtown
Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:59 am quote
It's crazy to cut up a nice Allstate for this project. I am so sad! We need to save that scoot, and give this guy a damaged frame or an abandoned P. Please don't cut it up!
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7949
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:02 pm quote
Fortunately one of the pictures is one you don't have. The front suspension does look pretty agricultural... The other ones are clearly quite different but may give you some ideas.
The transverse leaf spring on the blue one is kind of nice, low COG and low complexity but probably also harder to adjust.

3 Wheel Vespa 1.jpg

3 wheel vespa.jpg

3 or 4 wheel Vespa.jpg
Might be 4 wheels...

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8022
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:03 pm quote
Chatis wrote:
Greasy, I may very well take you up ion your offer and put the trike build off while I restore the this Cruisare. I just really want to get started on this trike build!
dude, hit me up. i've got that indo vbb with the early P150 motor-- as a plus, it's already got the round tail that you're looking for. it's also on 10's for whatever that's worth.

also have a mid 80's P150, a P2 and a stella with a 166

all are complete bikes, and i'm not looking top market for anything. so if any of that grabs ya, shoot me a PM and we can talk.

-g
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8022
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:08 pm quote
that suspension is straight up old school air cooled VW front end that's been cobbled with the forks. for that matter, the metal work is probably from a VW donor as well.

bring it into the future and put ATV stuff up front.

-g
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7949
Location: Victoria, Australia
Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:20 pm quote
And found this one - just for interest.

3 wheel WTsy.jpg

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8022
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Thu Sep 24, 2020 8:32 pm quote
okay... okay... just like, hear me out on this...

what if you started with an ape?

you've got drive train, you could narrow/shorten/modify everything up or stretch all the metal out from donors.

three wheels is still a trike.

but i'd hack it up and knock on an ATV front end and have some frankenstein situation of a ves-car

or? orrrrrr.... start with a side by side frame? add torches, welders, grinders, a dash of sawzall for good measure. then pound to fit and paint to match!

-g
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1519
Location: Siam
Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:51 pm quote
I will concur with those who think butchering the Allstate is not a good idea. A Vietnamese bodge or a Stella would be the best candidate for this. The Allstate is a piece of history as well. Why ruin it?
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1519
Location: Siam
Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:57 am quote
I will say, however, that this idea seems way, way better than a sidecar project.
Addicted
1974VLB 1979VSX 1974V9A
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 676

Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:32 am quote
Anything is better than a side car project.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2678

Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:24 am quote
Chatis wrote:
Thanks for the comments and interest. Yes, I too am conflicted about destroying what would be an easy restoration of a solid Allstate. But I have genuinely been looking for a donor bike for a long time and have not found anything in the price range I was willing to spend. Just bit the bullet on this purchase.

I have had a long time to think about how I would build the body on the trike. I love your suggestions and agree what I will do will be completely different. I like a rounder nose that will be closed. I want a dash. Finished cockpit. I was toying with the idea of welding cowls together to go over the front wheels creating fenders like a Bugatti Atlantic; and putting the headlights in there.

The front suspension is all Vespa. The frame is rigid and the suspension is simply the lower part of the fork. I love that. It is so period. But again agreeing that the handling will be rather crappy. It may be a little better than expected because of the lower center of gravity.

Greasy, I may very well take you up ion your offer and put the trike build off while I restore the this Cruisare. I just really want to get started on this trike build!
So what's your background experience with suspension and steering design and fabrication skills?
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7879
Location: seattle/athens
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:27 am quote


Remember the old bumper cars at the carnival? I think that's the look and feel that is desired here. I just noticed that the original is actually a widebody, so better an AllState than a good widebody. But it IS a nice AllState, and it would be a shame to it whack up... does NOBODY have a crunched roundtail or other older frame close by to swap here?

Looks like Elvis!
Hooked
lml 2t 150 with sidecar, Vespa ET4 150cc
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 284
Location: Wales
Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:58 am quote
PureDrivenSnow wrote:
Anything is better than a side car project.
Nope sidecars are brill according to my 4 yr old granddaughter and her cousin Tiger Lilly who is 7 and I am not allowed to get rid of it

IMG_20200712_105237.jpg

Addicted
1974 Rally 200, 1974 Rally 200 with sidecar, Vespacross bike
Joined: 09 Apr 2009
Posts: 569
Location: Atlanta
Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:31 am quote
I would also consider a Stella or PX just for the engine at least. You could keep the electric start to make life a little easier.

I found another widebody version today. It looks like they peeled the legshield down to make a floor out of it.

three-wheeled vespa.jpg

Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2678

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:16 am quote
V oodoo wrote:


Remember the old bumper cars at the carnival? I think that's the look and feel that is desired here. I just noticed that the original is actually a widebody, so better an AllState than a good widebody. But it IS a nice AllState, and it would be a shame to it whack up... does NOBODY have a crunched roundtail or other older frame close by to swap here?

Looks like Elvis!
The Taffspeed brothers built a reverse trike out of a Dodgem carnival car way back when...
https://scooternova.com/2018/04/10/the-taffspeed-interview-only-in-scooternova-magazine/
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7949
Location: Victoria, Australia
Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:59 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
The Taffspeed brothers built a reverse trike out of a Dodgem carnival car way back when...
https://scooternova.com/2018/04/10/the-taffspeed-interview-only-in-scooternova-magazine/
All of the fun of the fair! They look like they're having the absolute time of their lives here!!!

Taffspeed bros dodgem.jpg

Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1519
Location: Siam
Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:44 pm quote
Mattgyver wrote:
I would also consider a Stella or PX just for the engine at least. You could keep the electric start to make life a little easier.

I found another widebody version today. It looks like they peeled the legshield down to make a floor out of it.
This is brilliant improvisation. Even the center channel has been bent up to serve as a steering column support. 👏
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2678

Mon Sep 28, 2020 4:58 pm quote
nomadinsiam wrote:
Mattgyver wrote:
I would also consider a Stella or PX just for the engine at least. You could keep the electric start to make life a little easier.

I found another widebody version today. It looks like they peeled the legshield down to make a floor out of it.
This is brilliant improvisation. Even the center channel has been bent up to serve as a steering column support. 👏
and without that bench seat on it, a person could fab up some huge high-rise 5 gallon fuel tank that doubles as a head rest.
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1519
Location: Siam
Mon Sep 28, 2020 5:13 pm quote
Ginch wrote:
whodatschrome wrote:
The Taffspeed brothers built a reverse trike out of a Dodgem carnival car way back when...
https://scooternova.com/2018/04/10/the-taffspeed-interview-only-in-scooternova-magazine/
All of the fun of the fair! They look like they're having the absolute time of their lives here!!!
That doesnít appeal to me much. It looks too much like a sit-down lawn mower, too shiny. The old funky red ones are much cooler.
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8022
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:19 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
So what's your background experience with suspension and steering design and fabrication skills?
whodat over here asking the real questions.

i've got some alright skills in those departments and all the equipment to tackle something like this project, but even i would be having a serious sit down with me myself and i before breaking out the sawzall.

so much of this needs to be figured out before blade touches metal or the welder is fired up.

-g
Member
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 49
Location: Kansas City
Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:51 pm quote
whodatschrome wrote:
So what's your background experience with suspension and steering design and fabrication skills?
On this question I am pretty good. And I work with a buddy that is really good.

I am a mechanical engineer, and have access to all the tools and equipment I could need. But it will be a fun and difficult project.
Mattgyver wrote:
I found another widebody version today. It looks like they peeled the legshield down to make a floor out of it.
I like this as well, some good ideas.

However, this project is on hold. Going to rebuild the Allstate - will start a new thread.

I will get back to this. Its close to the top of the bucket list!!

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8022
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:27 pm quote
Chatis wrote:
I am a mechanical engineer, and have access to all the tools and equipment I could need.
mannn... if i had dime for every time somebody said this i'd have, like... i dunno... a lot of dimes.

-g
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 7949
Location: Victoria, Australia
Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:08 pm quote
Found some pics from a different trike.

3 wheel 1.jpg

3 wheel 2.jpg

3 wheel 3.jpg

3 wheel 4.jpg

3 wheel 5.jpg

Molto Verboso
08 GTS 250, 79 P200E, 62 Allstate
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1748
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Oct 16, 2020 6:38 pm quote
Oh man, that looks like a lot of fun!
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