Modern Vespa

Hi All.

New to the forum. Totally enjoying reading the opinions on here and hoping for some advice. I put some 22g dr pulleys into my 2k km 2020 500 hpe (yep pretty much brand new) and and have experienced heavy v belt rub, squeal and burn when closing the throttle at high speeds and high revs (+5500).

Took variator back apart and all was fitted well, but very clear outer wear to the v belt and clear black marks to the housing above the variator pulley (have included a photo). I have since put the OEM 25g rollers back in and everything is now back to normal. I am wondering if the dr pulleys were too light preventing the variator pulley from opening quickly enough and causing the belt to stay too high in the v pulley causing the damage (the variator case got so hot it melted the plastic outer casing!).

I am also wondering if the newer models don’t benefit as much from lighter rollers. I was loaned a 500ie for a few weeks which seemed so much quicker accelerating. My 0-60 time of around 10s really didn’t improve too much with the lighter dr pulleys. When I see you tube clips of MP3s doing 0-60 in sub 6s I can’t believe there is anything substantially different with the older variators in the older models.

Any help or info greatly appreciated.

All the best

Wez

The hpe models do have a few tweaks here and there, so it is very possible that they did modify the variator a tad.

I have a 2015 500ie, but I put in a mixed set of lighter original Piaggio weights. More specifically, I am using 4 of the original black 25gram weights along with 4 light blue 21gram weights (from a MP3 400 IIRC) to obtain an overall 23 grams.

The weights are staggered (25-21-25-21-25-21-25-21) inside the variator shell to keep things balanced.

I tried a couple sets of Malossi weights but found they wear out way too fast, so I am sticking to original parts when it comes to the drivetrain.

The engine seems much happer with my setup, and it eliminated the bucking that it had when it had the full set of 8 25gram weights.

Thanks for the prompt reply Sbaert. I may look to do something similar. Will let you know if I encounter any further problems.

the DP sliders do change gear ratio a bit when installed. which means in allows pullet halves to be farther apart on take off and closer together in top gear. there is a simple mod called the fuzzy washer that would reduce how high up the belt would ride in the pulley. but in your case you would need a thicker than usual washer. might be a good idea for someone to contact dp to let them know the sliders are not working out in a stock HPE 500. cause its most likely they are all going to do this.

the 500s are around 10-11 seconds 0-60 stock. the sliders can shave about one second from that time. no way there are any simple mods to make one be a 6 second machine.

Thanks JerryD. Relieved to hear wasn’t going mad with improvement seen from the lighter rollers when they were fitted. I remember reading Maksor saying the fuzzy washer doesn’t have such a pronounced affect on the newer 500 abs models. I couldn’t be sure if that is down to the washer on the inside of the v pulley being wider than it was in older models though. Part of my commute is on a motorway where I do travel at 80mph. My worry with a fuzzy is that it would limit my top end.

if you hit the housing you need to space out the vario with a 0.5 mm

Thanks Maksor. In your experience how much top end speed do you think I would lose by adding the extra variator washer. Appreciate it may be a guesstimate.

non

Cheers Maksor. Will have a look on your website later.

Hello Wez

I'm currently running 19g Dr Pulley shaped weights with total 3 mm washer
2 mm stock plus 1 mm fuzzy.
Minor case contact compared to yours.

Also Hit clutch with standard main spring.

Thank you for letting me know Brasseye. How does it affect your top end speed. Currently I am able to easily cruise at 130kmh and can nudge 145kmh if I need to overtake up there. As I have a segment of motorway each day I am looking for a nice balance which was why I originally went for 22g DP sliders.

when adding washers to separate pulley halves the belt will ride lower but the effect is only noticeable 0-30. cruising and the top end is not affected. with no added washer your terminal speed might go from 100 to something like 103. then when you ad washer it takes it back to 100. I recommend adding 1.0 as well.

I will give a go this weekend with a 0.5. See how it gets on then look to adjust if necessary. Thank you for all your help guys. Will let you know how I get on.

Top speed around 110 mph (indicated) on test track.
Pull away greatly improved for safety, but rear tire lifespan will suffer !
Will cruse at 70 mph all day.

Wow. 110! Pretty amazing.

This scooter is amazing apart from the weight and the steering bearing issues it ticks all my boxes.
I need to mount my phone and do a 0-60 and 0-100 now it running how I like it.

Yes I would be really interested to see how quick she does it in.

So I refitted the 22g Dr Pulleys and fitted a 1mm fuzzy washer. Didn’t leave a lot of room for the nut on the crankshaft, but once tightened to the correct torque the crankshaft is thankfully still proud (image included). I have been running for a couple of weeks and I am still getting some V Belt rub and squeal when decelerating from higher speed and revs on a closed throttle. Way better than it was though. Still a little worried about the damage that could be caused though, so I plan to change out the Dr Pulleys and put mixed 25g and 21g OEM rollers in to see how they fare. Will post how I get on with this once known.

Managed to find time today to change the 22g Dr Pulley weights out for a mix of 25 and 21g OEM rollers. Also took out the 1mm fuzzy washer and put in the 0.5mm. Still not mega happy about how much room the V nut has on the drive shaft (picture included). Really wouldn’t want that nut to shear, but getting no detectable V Belt rub or whine when closing the throttle at high revs. Think I may have found the set up I am most comfortable with. Will run into work and back this week, but looks promising.

Have been running this set up with a 0.5mm Fuzzy and yellow Malossi clutch springs and am very happy with it. No V belt rub at all. No chuntering at low revs. Acceleration way smoother than the Dr Pulley’s and engine note less raucous. Rough 0-60 improvement of 2-2.5s. Seems to be around 8s now. Very happy with the set up. Think will leave it like this now. Thanks for your and everyone else’s help.

Are you sure about an 8s time 0-60? My 2019 is of course sluggish off a stop (I think that's the universal price you pay for an auto clutch), but I do think it's faster than 8s to 60... leaves most cars far behind, but of course there's enough stuff out there to stomp you, so don't squeeze between two Tesla S with the extra pack ). Prolly could go faster if you do the usual auto stuff of revving up with brakes shut before launch, but that'll eff up your clutch if you make it a habit...

Hi Pablo. Would be interested to see it if it does as I do feel there is some variance between individual scooters. I had an 500 IE for a while and it definitely seemed quicker than the hpe I currently have. Stock is supposed to be around 10.5-11s. There are videos on YouTube...Motosnax has one which shows 11.4s. The ones which are quicker tend to have lighter weights in the variator. Once it gets its weight moving it does pick up. The gearing seems to be designed to meet emissions standards and isn’t optimal for the engines torque and power bands. Lighter weights and stronger clutch springs with a fuzzy washer could make it even quicker (especially off the line) but mpg does fall from what I have experienced. A trade off that is worth it in my eyes.