1965 Allstate Resurrection
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Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 591
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Thu Dec 17, 2020 4:24 pm quote
Looking good so far! Although it does look like the drum is not seated all the way down. The space between drum/hub should be much less than what you show. Torque it all down and see where you are at.

Also, I would recommend swapping out those brake shoes. Even though they visually look good, a new set will grab much better. There are new varieties available from multiple Brands that are FAR superior to the 60 year old shoes you've got there. Never cheap out on the brakes. IMHO.

Keep up the good work!
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Thu Dec 17, 2020 5:27 pm quote
GeekLion wrote:
it does look like the drum is not seated all the way down. The space between drum/hub should be much less than what you show. Torque it all down and see where you are at.
Torqued it to 50 ft-lbs. Didn't move much at all. The drum is down. I was thinking the axel needed to go in another 5mm. But is not moving and the distance between the bottom of the stud and the spring is only about 3mm.

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Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 591
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Thu Dec 17, 2020 6:38 pm quote
From what I can tell, it looks like the axle needs to pull in further; as you suspected. The space between the backside of stud and the spring/shoe assembly is pretty tight. Maybe less that the 3mm you have; but I'd have to measure to be sure. I do know that your drum should just-about-snug-up to the cast hub. Kissing that machined in lip, with just barely 1mm (ish) to spare.
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Thu Dec 17, 2020 7:51 pm quote
GeekLion wrote:
From what I can tell, it looks like the axle needs to pull in further; as you suspected.
So now I am confused. I thought that torqueing the hub nut would pull in the axel to the correct place and push in the bearing to the correct place. I decided to put a bit of a hammer on the stud side of the hub and was able to get it closer to the swing arm - so much so that it interfered with the spring and I could not turn it. So I pushed it back out until there was no interference, barely.

When I went back to torque the hub nut it was still at 50 ft-lbs. I think the outside hub nut is supposed to be at 60 ft-lbs.

But what locates the axel? Have I done something wrong with the assembly? Is it the outside hub nut that secures everything?

Still, there is a 2mm gap between the swingarm and the brake drum.
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 591
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:21 pm quote
Just to make sure everything is square before dialing down the possibilities:

Are your brake shoes seated on the pivot pin correctly? This photo from your previous post show's that they are not seated. Just makin sure

AR1805.jpg

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:22 am quote
GeekLion wrote:
Are your brake shoes seated on the pivot pin correctly?
Thanks for checking, yes seated correctly.

In my mind that axel should hit a firm stop to be located. But thinking about it it doesn't. It can slide inside the bearings in the housing. You position it and then lock it in place. The internal hub nut locks the axel to the inner race of the bearing and the external hub nut (with retainer) locks it to the swingarm. So that bearing is locating the axel laterally. It makes sense in my mind at least. I am probably wrong...
Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1205
Location: Racing Capital of the World
Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:48 am quote
What are you doing running brake shoes that are 50 years old? Let me hook a brother up with a ones that have a modern compound.

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Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:38 pm quote
While I am waiting for new brake pads there is not much I can do. I put on the stand on but the Indian brackets are kak and didnít fit. They are not even the same size!

So, very rusty brackets, a wire wheel, and a can of Rustoleum Appliance Epoxy and I have refurbished brackets. I LOVE the appliance epoxy but it only comes in black and white. It really is hard and looks like it has been powder coated.



Stand on



Pipe insulation to stop scratches while it still sleeps on its belly.



Still no brake pads so knowing that the engine will be here after I am finished with everything else need a way to move the scoot around. $8 dolly from HF and scraps from the garage and voila:









Waiting and wasting fair weather.
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2907
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Dec 21, 2020 2:40 pm quote
Nice little dolly stand! Might have to steal that idea some day.
Hooked
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 275
Location: Philadelphia
Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:05 pm quote
Nice job!

Any tips for running cables and wires? How do you get the wires to the brake switch? I assume the throttle,clutch and shift cables are probably pretty straight forward but the wiring I'm worried about. Once I get to it that is, that's pretty far away for me at the moment.
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2072
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Dec 21, 2020 3:16 pm quote
Ohhh, very nice!
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:13 pm quote
FridayMatinee wrote:
Any tips for running cables and wires? How do you get the wires to the brake switch?
Between the excellent folks on this forum, the information inside the forum, and YouTube video's you find can everything you need. For cables and wires this is a great video: https://youtu.be/SPS3MtCxjhQ. Sometimes a Google search is better into the forum than the forum search tool.

My VBB does not have a tube for the brake light wiring, the Allstate does. Use a thin wire and a piece of string to pull it through the tube. Brake wires are easy. Put a wire in the hole down the tunnel and attach the wires to wire and pull it back out WITH the rest of the harness.

Biggest tip I can give is patience.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8128
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:37 pm quote
FridayMatinee wrote:
Nice job!

Any tips for running cables and wires? How do you get the wires to the brake switch? I assume the throttle,clutch and shift cables are probably pretty straight forward but the wiring I'm worried about. Once I get to it that is, that's pretty far away for me at the moment.
I like to use teflon spray for both if I'm having to fight them.
Tight masking tape over any lumpy sections.
Using weed whacker line to fish thru the frame.
And the usual trick, using the old cables or wires to pull thru the new.

For clutch and shift cables, there is one possible thing to consider. When I cut open my Sprint, I found a reinforcing 'bulkhead' that the wires and throttle cable went UNDER, but the shift cables(still bound together w/ that factory stamped steel clamp) and clutch cable went thru the smaller opening at the top. The benefit being a gentler bend and shorter more direct route. BTW, both shifting and clutching on this bike are butter .







Why chop up a Sprint? Had to!

Hooked
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 275
Location: Philadelphia
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:22 am quote
Chatis wrote:
FridayMatinee wrote:
Any tips for running cables and wires? How do you get the wires to the brake switch?
Between the excellent folks on this forum, the information inside the forum, and YouTube video's you find can everything you need. For cables and wires this is a great video: https://youtu.be/SPS3MtCxjhQ. Sometimes a Google search is better into the forum than the forum search tool.

My VBB does not have a tube for the brake light wiring, the Allstate does. Use a thin wire and a piece of string to pull it through the tube. Brake wires are easy. Put a wire in the hole down the tunnel and attach the wires to wire and pull it back out WITH the rest of the harness.

Biggest tip I can give is patience.
I've been googling for months and was just looking for some real world info is all. I've done house wiring so I assume it's pretty close to the same idea just was wondering is all. Thanks for the video!
Patience is not my go to usually so I'll have to remember that one
Hooked
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 275
Location: Philadelphia
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:29 am quote
V oodoo wrote:
I like to use teflon spray for both if I'm having to fight them.
Tight masking tape over any lumpy sections.
Using weed whacker line to fish thru the frame.
And the usual trick, using the old cables or wires to pull thru the new.

For clutch and shift cables, there is one possible thing to consider. When I cut open my Sprint, I found a reinforcing 'bulkhead' that the wires and throttle cable went UNDER, but the shift cables(still bound together w/ that factory stamped steel clamp) and clutch cable went thru the smaller opening at the top. The benefit being a gentler bend and shorter more direct route. BTW, both shifting and clutching on this bike are butter .
I have no old cables to use
Which I guess was more the point in asking. I don't think mine has a bulkhead at least not that I could see when I stuck my phone down there and took a pic to check for rust. Which surprisingly there wasn't much at all. Lucky me!

I dunno why but the cables and wires are giving me anxiety already and I haven't even started that part yet! Most likely due to starting from complete scratch. It's a bit overwhelming. I'm sure it'll go okay though. One of those "I've never done it so I don't know what to expect" type of deals
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2217
Location: Veria, Greece
Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:26 am quote
A small correction. Wrong grommet at the cables...

AR1903.jpg

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Tue Dec 22, 2020 6:53 pm quote
FridayMatinee wrote:
I dunno why but the cables and wires are giving me anxiety already and I haven't even started that part yet! Most likely due to starting from complete scratch. It's a bit overwhelming. I'm sure it'll go okay though.
Folks make it out to be harder than it is. You will be fine. I had no issues and I welded two permanent ridges in the tunnel that needed to be navigated.
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:16 pm quote
SaFiS wrote:
A small correction. Wrong grommet at the cables...
Thank you again SaFiS. I read somewhere that there was no grommet there on an Allstate and I have some extra of the carb grommets.

I appreciate you making sure I am doing things correctly. Its coming along.
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Sat Dec 26, 2020 6:19 pm quote
Been a busy but good day. Brake pads arrived. They were installed. I compared the old and the new axels. Other than the radius and the bearing seat they are identical. I ground down the backs of the studs to get it closer and there is less than 1mm between the studs and the spring (maybe 1/2mm). There is still a gap between the drum and the swing arm. Installed the mudguard.









New dust shield and original race



Front end in





The left stop was not making contact. Wish I had known this sooner. I did manage the bend it back enough so it works but this should have been done before I put the front on. Pulled the wires over the top Ė I think thatís where they are supposed to be.



Mix of old, Italian and Indian parts and hardware





And down on the floor with my new dolly





Lubed all the cables with PJ1. Headset on.



Connected cables. Lithium grease still needed.





Electrical pulled through Ė this was a bitch!



Gap between brake shoe and swingarm



Front brake cable end is quite weird but is the correct thickness. May change this. Confirming, brake cable outer, like the clutch outer, does not get a top hat???



Project manager Leela had a busy day.



Now an issue. Either the front mudguard or the front wheel is off center.



I think itís the mudguard but it is being held in place by the bracket so I donít know how to push it across.



Dolly works great.

Thatís all folks.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8128
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Dec 26, 2020 9:06 pm quote
Very tidy so far!



You need the round slotted trunnion thingy that slips over the cable and snugs against the swedged 'pear' end.

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:00 pm quote
New rear shock/strut assembly is 3/4" longer than the original. Is this concerning? New one is 17 1/4". Old one was 16 1/2".
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5772
Location: So Cal
Sun Dec 27, 2020 1:23 pm quote
Shouldnít be an issue, just gives the shock a little longer travel. You can use a shorter spacer at the top of the shock if it concerns you.
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:58 am quote
While I have been quiet for a few weeks work progresses. I'm just not doing it!!! Engine is being rebuilt by Jon. Going with a 177 and 20/20 carb. Exhaust still to be decided.

Received my Vermont plate and tag. They did not give me the vintage tag - they made it a motorcycle despite me filling it in as a vintage.

Also after three months received my rear light from India. There will be haters. But it was $23 including shipping and included the gasket and two bulbs. Yes, its not an Allstate light. Mine is pretty much beyond repair. And, it just bolts on so easy to change. Its a VBB light. I like it more than the Allstate light in any event. Thought it would be plastic but its cast. Fit and finish is pretty poor but I can take care of that. Better than I thought it would be for the price.

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Last edited by Chatis on Wed Jan 27, 2021 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1674
Location: Siam
Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:51 pm quote
At least get rid of the Philips head screw and replace it with a slot head screw. That will made it look respectable in the eyes of pedants.🥸
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:23 am quote
Things are progressing nicely. Nothing postworthy but lots of little things. I have a question. What goes in the spaces with arrows? Lock washer? Blue threadlocker? Washer? Nothing? My new shock is already nearly 3/4 longer than the old one.

Shock.PNG

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1580
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:29 pm quote
Chatis wrote:
Things are progressing nicely. Nothing postworthy but lots of little things. I have a question. What goes in the spaces with arrows? Lock washer? Blue threadlocker? Washer? Nothing? My new shock is already nearly 3/4 longer than the old one.
You can buy that center piece in a few different lengths. When I pulled the shock off my Stella and tried installing the new shock I found out my shock was shorter. I had to buy one of those spacers.
Enthusiast
VBA
Joined: 12 Mar 2018
Posts: 94
Location: Texas
Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:42 pm quote
Chatis wrote:
Things are progressing nicely. Nothing postworthy but lots of little things. I have a question. What goes in the spaces with arrows? Lock washer? Blue threadlocker? Washer? Nothing? My new shock is already nearly 3/4 longer than the old one.
When I stuck a P series shock on my VBA, I used a 42mm center thing, but that looks like you are already at that length.

You should not have an air gap there. Are the 2 male threaded bolts hitting each other? If so I would cut some threads so that they buck up tight without touching tips. My P200 had a locking washer where each one of your arrows are pointing that appear to be factory. I think (but have no pictures) that I also used 2 locking washers on my VBA.

Did you ever figure out that front brake gap issue you had? From the pics your front pad looks really wide for a front pad. What is the width of that SIP front pad? This is dumb, but could the pads be offset so that it would suck the spring in more in one direction?
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:56 pm quote
Captcha wrote:
You should not have an air gap there. Are the 2 male threaded bolts hitting each other? If so I would cut some threads so that they buck up tight without touching tips. My P200 had a locking washer where each one of your arrows are pointing that appear to be factory. I think (but have no pictures) that I also used 2 locking washers on my VBA.
There is no gap, they are just not tight. I ended up putting lockwashers in both places.
Captcha wrote:
Did you ever figure out that front brake gap issue you had?
I managed to get it down to about 1mm. Those are standard front brake pads.

Hopefully lots of progress this week.
Enthusiast
VBA
Joined: 12 Mar 2018
Posts: 94
Location: Texas
Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:19 pm quote
Chatis wrote:
I managed to get it down to about 1mm. Those are standard front brake pads.
No such thing as standard on Vespa's (at least for me). lol. I feel like my rotary tool gets a workout every time I get a set of new parts in.

Anyway I snapped a couple pictures of my VBA front brakes last month for this thread, but forgot to post. Pics almost look the same but I was trying to get the viewer on plane to with outside of brakes and inside of brakes. I did fail to get a measurement of the front brake width. According to SIP website the performance pads are 18mm wide and standard are 17mm wide, but I doubt that is the issue.

I've sat here for an hour thinking about this with little to show. Final thought. Maybe everything is in the correct place but it is the wrong drum that migrated to that bike over the years? The drum in your pics does look different than most of the replacements for the OEM like front drums on SIP.

IMG_1973.jpg
Inner shoe in plane.

IMG_1972.jpg
Outer Shoe in plane

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:48 pm quote
The brake drum being short is an interesting thought.

A few updates.

Engine still needs to be put in. Was in but needed to come out for some work.

On the rear damper, the spacer for this shock makes a huge difference, as does the shock length. I have removed it entirely since with it in the carb box does not fit. That is a lesson everyone should know.

Also, lesson for me is that to put the engine in you need to remove the carb and the carb box. Was not expecting that.

More hopefully soon...

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Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Sat Apr 03, 2021 5:27 pm quote
Well yinz, today was a busy day... Clearly no progress here since March 7th but progress not made. Yes. A clutch problem turned out to be no clutch problem. The clutch cable was either too long or the pivot nuts were too tight and caused the lever to bind. I cut 8 1/2 inches off a new outer from SM so there was no snaking in the tunnel.

So some pictures of today...



Hot glue is more flexible than epoxy.

















And here is a Video of the startup:

youtu.be/kWVT2nKFJEo

And a video of the first little ride. Clutch and Gears need adjustment:

youtu.be/Gv63eP6Qy5Q

Brake light is not working, even though I tested it before I put the motor in with a battery. No idea why it is not working now. Need to work on the speedo. I have a mishmush of 2mm and 2.5mm parts. And the speedo is not working period. I need to rebuild it. I have ordered one from India.

Well, until the next update.

Some finishing touches.
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2072
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:21 pm quote
BRAVO!

The horn on the first kick was fun

And, I love the white and black guard dog's expressions when you kicked it over the first time. Great vid!

Congratulations! Now for some final touches (like a headlight) and you're golden! Good job!

Last edited by qascooter on Sun Apr 04, 2021 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2202
Location: california
Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:26 pm quote
Nothing like the first start up and ride!
Was baffled by the horn sound until "I believe the horn is going off" portion.
Chuckled - but mostly smiled.
Congrats.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5772
Location: So Cal
Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:28 am quote
Nice work. I liked that you dressed to match the scooter.
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:14 pm quote
So, other than some small niggles and a noise from the engine its done.








Would I consider swapping out the engine cowling with a distressed red one? Sure! Anyone have one? Anyone wanna swap it?

I also put this all in a video. Eight minutes of your life you may enjoy but cannot get back!!

"https://youtu.be/FBL_zJXyIZs"

D
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8128
Location: seattle/athens
Fri Apr 09, 2021 7:16 pm quote
Really nice job, your attention to detail shows all over, like your floor rails, leggy trim and your motor. And you know I love the old paint! But what's the deal with the cylinder cowl, sandblasted but no paint yet?

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:36 am quote
V oodoo wrote:
what's the deal with the cylinder cowl, sandblasted but no paint yet?
Thanks for the compliment V oodoo! The deal with the cowl is as follows...

It is what came with the scoot. Wrong color - like a dark blue grey with a lot of surface rust. I just sanded the rust off and left it. I sorta like it. I may put some rattle can red on the top of the top of it and just leave it ratty.

If I paint it it will mismatch the rest of the scooter. The floors are somewhat hidden by the floor rails so the paint mismatch is not obvious.

So, as I said, if there is a distressed red one out there I would swap it out.
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