alternative lambda sensor
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Hooked
gts300,gts250
Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 207
Location: cumbria uk
Thu Oct 08, 2020 9:01 am quote
I am wanting a spare 4 wire lambda sensor, but don't want to pay Piaggio's prices. Is there anyone with knowledge regarding these sensors ? Car ones appear to be much cheaper. Are they basically the same with the plug being the only difference? Thanks for any info....
Hooked
2020 Vespa GTS Touring 300
Joined: 16 Feb 2020
Posts: 144
Location: Northern California
Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:22 am quote
I was wondering what that was, when I noticed this item today:

Malossi Lambda emulator is a device able to simulate signals from lambda sensor which original CDI is expected to receive. In this way, original lambda sensor is used to obtain best carburetion without the original CDI noticing failures or mistakes.

Products reserved exclusively for competitions in places intended for them in accordance with the provisions of the competent sports authorities. We Disclaim all liability for improper use


TC UNIT O2 controller - lambda emulator
https://www.malossistore.eu/en/tc-unit-o2-controller-lambda-emulator-vespa-gts-hpe-300-ie-4t-lc-euro-4-2019-ma36m-5514749-vehpe30019-M-P
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8663
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Thu Oct 08, 2020 11:01 am quote
Re: alternative lambda sensor
fran wrote:
I am wanting a spare 4 wire lambda sensor, but don't want to pay Piaggio's prices. Is there anyone with knowledge regarding these sensors ? Car ones appear to be much cheaper. Are they basically the same with the plug being the only difference? Thanks for any info....
Have you tried motorcyclespareparts.eu ?
Ossessionato
Piaggio Fly 150
Joined: 10 Jan 2008
Posts: 3379
Location: Sanibel Island
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:37 pm quote
Do they fail frequently enough to justify buying a spare? There seems to be no discussion of that here.


Question: do they fail open circuit or closed circuit? If it fails on the road can you get home?
Hooked
gts300,gts250
Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 207
Location: cumbria uk
Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:40 pm quote
I do see them in motorcycle and car spares ,but I just want to know are they interchangeable ,do they all do the same job,or is there something special about the Piaggio one to make it 3 times the price of others.
Molto Verboso
150 Sprint Veloce,Vespa GTS 300
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 1149
Location: St Neots Cambridgeshire England
Fri Oct 09, 2020 7:50 am quote
Re: alternative lambda sensor
fran wrote:
I am wanting a spare 4 wire lambda sensor, but don't want to pay Piaggio's prices. Is there anyone with knowledge regarding these sensors ? Car ones appear to be much cheaper. Are they basically the same with the plug being the only difference? Thanks for any info....
I have a used but perfectly good one, I took off my 2012 GTS 300, if your interested- £30 plus delivery!

Graham
Molto Verboso
150 Sprint Veloce,Vespa GTS 300
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 1149
Location: St Neots Cambridgeshire England
Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:00 am quote
Re: alternative lambda sensor
louswheel wrote:
fran wrote:
I am wanting a spare 4 wire lambda sensor, but don't want to pay Piaggio's prices. Is there anyone with knowledge regarding these sensors ? Car ones appear to be much cheaper. Are they basically the same with the plug being the only difference? Thanks for any info....
I have a used but perfectly good one, I took off my 2012 GTS 300, if your interested- £30 plus delivery!

Graham
Oooops! Mine was a 2 wire Lambda sensor, not a 4 wire one, they must have upgraded them to a four wire one somehow...
Sorry!

Graham
Molto Verboso
150 Sprint Veloce,Vespa GTS 300
Joined: 22 Feb 2010
Posts: 1149
Location: St Neots Cambridgeshire England
Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:05 am quote
Re: alternative lambda sensor
louswheel wrote:
louswheel wrote:
fran wrote:
I am wanting a spare 4 wire lambda sensor, but don't want to pay Piaggio's prices. Is there anyone with knowledge regarding these sensors ? Car ones appear to be much cheaper. Are they basically the same with the plug being the only difference? Thanks for any info....
I have a used but perfectly good one, I took off my 2012 GTS 300, if your interested- £30 plus delivery!

Graham
Oooops! Mine was a 2 wire Lambda sensor, not a 4 wire one, they must have upgraded them to a four wire one somehow...
Sorry!

Graham
Mine...



Graham
Hooked
Primavera 150
Joined: 17 Sep 2017
Posts: 456
Location: Long Beach, CA
Fri Oct 09, 2020 8:12 am quote
Just like cars, universal ones are cheap. You pay the extra money to get the right length cable and a proper connector.

Keeping a spare is a waste of time. When they fail (very rare, really), the mixture goes rich (as a default) and the engine light comes on. Gas mileage goes to hell, but you can still ride.
Hooked
S150, Beo 500ie
Joined: 14 Aug 2019
Posts: 365
Location: Bermuda
Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:19 pm quote
O2 sensors have to be very hot to function. Sensors with more than two wires use those additional wires for power to heat the sensor when the engine is cool instead of waiting for the exhaust gases to heat up the whole surrounding exhaust system.

You can use a generic as a replacement, with a bit of reconfiguring with or without the originalís number of wires, but to patch into the connector with the scooterís harness you need to cut the wires of the original and splice the new one in using EZloc or crimp connectors that can tolerate high heat. Soldering wonít work. For this reason if you want an extra on hand for troubleshooting, youíll probably want an OEM one with the right cable length and connector as Pokeyjoe suggests so you donít destroy the old one.

Because configurable generics are readily available, a dead sensor is pretty easy to troubleshoot, and doesnít stop the engine, I wouldnít say itís all that useful to have an expensive spare around. But if you can find a cheap used OEM one.....
Hooked
gts300,gts250
Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 207
Location: cumbria uk
Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:53 am quote
pokeyjoe wrote:
Just like cars, universal ones are cheap. You pay the extra money to get the right length cable and a proper connector.

Keeping a spare is a waste of time. When they fail (very rare, really), the mixture goes rich (as a default) and the engine light comes on. Gas mileage goes to hell, but you can still ride.
Hi I hear what your saying The reason I want a spare sensor is that i carry a spare exhaust manifold, as these are known to crack.I also know that removing sensors from used manifolds can be difficult, even in the garage. Therefore I carry a manifold with a spare sensor attached. Just in case, then its a quick swap
Ossessionato
LXV 150 3v ie. Midnight Blue (Sold)
Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 3415
Location: Bangkok
Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:28 pm quote
If worried about not having a sensor connected if you change exhaust.
Buy an emulator and be done with it.

I believe I read somewhere that the ECU doesn't look at the sensor above about 5000 to 5500 rpm so only effects the mixture during idling and slow chugging in slow traffic.

EDIT: Edited this twice and still got the English wrong It's what happens when using a double negative.

Last edited by waspmike on Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2008 MP3 500, 2013 BV350, 2020 Vespa Sei Giorni
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 8663
Location: Ashburn, Va. Home to the Internet
Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:57 am quote
waspmike wrote:
If worried about not having a sensor connected if you change exhaust.
Buy an emulator and be done with it.

I believe I read somewhere that the ECU doesn't look at the sensor below about 5000 to 5500 rpm so only effects the mixture during idling and slow chugging in slow traffic.
And that would be wrong, O2 sensor is in the loop throughout the RPM range.
And in the UK I bet a emulator would be detected during MOT.

As far as manifold cracking, very rare from my years on this site. Most were cracked using a brass bushing instead of a graphite bushing.
And can not imagine replacing a manifold on the side of the road so why carry a spare?
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6356
Location: NWAOK
Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:52 am quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
waspmike wrote:
If worried about not having a sensor connected if you change exhaust.
Buy an emulator and be done with it.

I believe I read somewhere that the ECU doesn't look at the sensor below about 5000 to 5500 rpm so only effects the mixture during idling and slow chugging in slow traffic.
And that would be wrong, O2 sensor is in the loop throughout the RPM range.
And in the UK I bet a emulator would be detected during MOT.

As far as manifold cracking, very rare from my years on this site. Most were cracked using a brass bushing instead of a graphite bushing.
And can not imagine replacing a manifold on the side of the road so why carry a spare?
The Piaggio ECU stops listening to the O2 sensor above 6000 rpms.
Hooked
gts300,gts250
Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 207
Location: cumbria uk
Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:21 am quote
WEB-Tech wrote:
waspmike wrote:
If worried about not having a sensor connected if you change exhaust.
Buy an emulator and be done with it.

I believe I read somewhere that the ECU doesn't look at the sensor below about 5000 to 5500 rpm so only effects the mixture during idling and slow chugging in slow traffic.
And that would be wrong, O2 sensor is in the loop throughout the RPM range.
And in the UK I bet a emulator would be detected during MOT.

As far as manifold cracking, very rare from my years on this site. Most were cracked using a brass bushing instead of a graphite bushing.
And can not imagine replacing a manifold on the side of the road so why carry a spare?
I have also rode for years without one cracking , quite a few people have also had them crack due to incorrect fitting of aftermarket exhausts.but I do like to be prepared.I could quite easily change a manifold at the side of the road.Its not hard, remove the exhaust ,and then 2 nuts.Better this than waiting hours for recovery.
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