GT200 started making a rattle clanking noise sporatically.
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Hooked
Scarabeo 250
Joined: 10 Jul 2014
Posts: 208
Location: Upstate NY
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:14 am quote
Bike has 12K on it and I did the belt and rollers around 10K I think. Here's a vid of the noise. Sounds like variator issues.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CQL1eJQt5XmvVNRr5

I have pulled the variator and cleaned everything up, even bought a new back plate since the old one had some play but the new one also has some play. The crank is worn but I don't think that's the issue.
Noise is still there after reassembly. I also put the old set of rollers in just in case that was the issue but the new ones were in spec. I did not realize the rollers went in with the metal side to the right so there might have been a few in backwards after my 10K service but they all look ok and none are worn differently than the others, no flat spots either. Could that have caused the variator to wear? No visible wear on the variator, it looks fine. The rollers still had a lip on them and the coated side looked fine as well.
Anyone else ever heard this noise?

crank.jpg

IMG_20201015_144452244.jpg

IMG_20201015_144433570.jpg

IMG_20201015_144416205.jpg

Member
2014/2019 gts 300 super/ gts 300 touring
Joined: 14 Sep 2020
Posts: 38
Location: Mt Dora
Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:48 pm quote
From what I can see your crankshaft needs to be replaced. Idk how the crank splines wore down like that. Maybe some other guys could chime in but what Iím seeing is not good! Also, belt is wearing on the lower case, I canít tell if itís happening on the upper side. Are you using the correct size belt?????
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8019
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:55 pm quote
Crank is waxed.

Looks like you either didnít torque something down properly or got the assembly order incorrect.

Either way, youíre in for an expensive repair or a new (used) engine.

-g
Hooked
Scarabeo 250
Joined: 10 Jul 2014
Posts: 208
Location: Upstate NY
Thu Oct 15, 2020 6:26 pm quote
I have been the only one to work on this bike and when I did the belt and rollers at 9500 I had the owner buy OEM parts. Ended up buying the bike from her so if I fucked it up its on me. I had no issues since the belt and rollers were changed but I agree the crankshaft looks like toast. When I opened it up this week everything seemed to be in order. Tight variator bolt. But things were dirty in there as you can see with the crankshaft pic.
So a worn shaft could be causing this racket? I don't like this scoot enough to go thru the expense of replacing the engine. What do you think it's worth as a parts bike?
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8019
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:08 pm quote
Ten bucks and a burrito

Iíll even come pick it up.

-g
Hooked
Scarabeo 250
Joined: 10 Jul 2014
Posts: 208
Location: Upstate NY
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:15 pm quote
I'm thinking more than that and honestly I plan to fix it even if it means replacing the engine just because I've known the bike since it had 400 miles on it.
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8019
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:33 pm quote
I was just joking.

Anyway, either the assembly or assembly order was wrong, something wasnít torqued properly or a part was installed incorrectly or was well past its service limit.

Anyway, thereís cranks out there. And theyíre not a bajillion dollars.

Between that, a gasket kit, some consumables and a few trans components youíd probably only be into it about $500 if you did all the work yourself.

-g

ps if you do go ahead with it let me know what cat crank youíve got, I may have one kicking around brand new that Iíll unload on the cheap.
Addicted
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 964
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:51 pm quote
With the high cost of body repairs on the Vespa, you have a good chance of finding an insurance write-off where the engine and drive train are still good. Use your current engine as a parts source.
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6356
Location: NWAOK
Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:03 pm quote
There's a lot of weird rubbing marks on the back of the variator, and the rollers are surprisingly dirty. Putting them in "backwards" doesn't make a difference.
I think the crank is fine if you can get the back plate all the way back and it locks on the threads. It looks like quite a few GT 200 cranks I've seen.
It looks like the variator wasn't all the way back when the nut was tightened, and once it got moving, it moved back, started wobbling, and the rest is history. This happens when people push the variator back to where it stops initially, then tighten everything down, without checking to see if the variator is all the way back. It seems to be an issue with the GT200 more than other models. Often, with the GT 200, the variator will go out a little then bind when you try to take it off, and you have to give the back plate a little tap to free it
But if you can get the back plate of the variator onto the splines at the rear of the crank, the crank is fine. Try it without the variator assembled, so you can see that it will go back all the way. Once you get it back all the way, put the bushing on, and use a sharpie to mark the crank with the bushing all the way on and the back plate all the way back. Then, when you try to put it back together again with the entire variator, if you don't see the mark, you know what the problem is.
Any time you find yourself buying parts you don't need because you can't figure out what's wrong with it, you would be well served to take the bike to a shop, or someone who knows these bikes well enough to know if the variator is installed correctly.
Hooked
Scarabeo 250
Joined: 10 Jul 2014
Posts: 208
Location: Upstate NY
Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:01 am quote
Motovista. Thanks for the reply, lot's of good info there. I put that variator in 2k miles ago and it just started making this noise. Could it have run ok for that long without causing a problem it I didn't have it seated properly?
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8019
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:12 am quote
ride4321 wrote:
Motovista. Thanks for the reply, lot's of good info there. I put that variator in 2k miles ago and it just started making this noise. Could it have run ok for that long without causing a problem it I didn't have it seated properly?
yes, entirely possible.

stock vario or something aftermarket?

but yeah man, you're on borrowed time. you can make it work, but that crank took a beating and there's a ton of weight chillin' it off the end of it.

if the back plate teeth grab and the snout isn't fubar'd then i'd say run it till it pukes and then buy another or snap up the parts to redo it.

but mos def inspect ALL the trans parts closely for wear before proceeding. something obviously got ate the fuck up besides the crank.

-g
Hooked
Scarabeo 250
Joined: 10 Jul 2014
Posts: 208
Location: Upstate NY
Mon Oct 19, 2020 2:43 pm quote
Stock variator. New one came today. Put it in and it seems to run fine now. No idea what happened with the original, but it did have a few rub marks on it facing the engine. Everything slides into the shaft splines fine and also came off fine when I took it apart. Don't think it's shaft related. I get what I think is a bit of normal roller chatter even first started but it goes away quick and not the nasty sound I had before. Wish I knew what caused it to happen but for now I'm happy it's sounding better. Pics of old and new parts, old on the right. Stock rollers, old and new. They must have redesigned them or gave me knockoffs???

IMG_20201019_151438331.jpg

IMG_20201019_151353491.jpg

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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6356
Location: NWAOK
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:27 am quote
If you bought it from some grifter on bonanza.com, they're probably knockoffs. The stock roller weights are very expensive, there are a lot of different bikes that use that size, weight and color of roller, particularly in the US, and hundreds of companies make knock off roller weights exactly like that to support the huge US demand for blue 20x17 10.3 gram roller weights.

Actually, as far as I know, that's the only model ever sold in the US that uses those weights, and they're pretty inexpensive.

It could be that a different company made the rollers for Piaggio, just like different companies made both those variators. I don't think it's possible to get variators or weights for that bike that aren't made by an OEM supplier to Piaggio. Even the aftermarket ones are made by OEM suppliers, which is one reason they cost about what an OEM variator costs and are not usually offered for sale in the US.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 21681
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:47 am quote
ride4321 wrote:
Stock variator. New one came today. Put it in and it seems to run fine now. No idea what happened with the original, but it did have a few rub marks on it facing the engine. Everything slides into the shaft splines fine and also came off fine when I took it apart. Don't think it's shaft related. I get what I think is a bit of normal roller chatter even first started but it goes away quick and not the nasty sound I had before. Wish I knew what caused it to happen but for now I'm happy it's sounding better. Pics of old and new parts, old on the right. Stock rollers, old and new. They must have redesigned them or gave me knockoffs???
who did you order from for the new vari?
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8019
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Thu Oct 22, 2020 12:14 am quote
Vario looks fine but them rollers look janky AF

Like way, way, WAY too light.

Weigh them before install. Otherwise youíll surely ruin what little part of your crank is left.

Good luck!

-g
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6356
Location: NWAOK
Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:42 pm quote
greasy125 wrote:
Vario looks fine but them rollers look janky AF

Like way, way, WAY too light.

Weigh them before install. Otherwise youíll surely ruin what little part of your crank is left.

Good luck!

-g
Those are the new rollers in the Piaggio GT200 variator. They look different, but the weight is still the same as the old ones. If you order the rollers separately, they look like the old ones, for now.

old rollers gt 200.jpg

new rollers gt200.jpg

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8019
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Thu Oct 22, 2020 2:56 pm quote
Wow! Less material but same weight?

Iím impressed!

-g
Addicted
2007 GT200, 2008 Yamaha C3
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 655
Location: Denver
Thu Oct 22, 2020 4:26 pm quote
They look like the BV350 stock 16 gram rollers. I just replaced a set with Malossi rollers. Hard to believe they both weigh the same. Less mass, less heat retention?

Screenshot 2020-10-22 at 6.25.59 PM.png

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