Vespa and Beverly among the most elegant scooters
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Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
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Location: Latina (Italy)
Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:47 am quote
https://www.automotorinews.it/2021/01/02/piaggio-vespa-beverly-scooter-piu-eleganti-classifica-forbes/

Piaggio, Vespa and Beverly among the most elegant scooters: the Forbes ranking

The Forbes rankings are known all over the world. Usually committed to crowning the richest or most influential men in the world, the American magazine has focused this time on the most elegant scooters that will come out in 2021. And it is on this occasion that some Italian products appear, including the iconic Vespa and the Beverly. Also in the ranking is the Italjet Dragster, one of the latest "made in Italy" innovations in the sector that has met with great success in a short time among fans of the sector.

To keep him company in the top 5, there are also the Honda X-ADV and the BMW C 650 GT. Josh Max, the journalist author of this special ranking, to justify the choices, highlighted the restyling of the two Piaggio models. In particular, he highlighted how the Pontedera company has managed to intervene in the best possible way in terms of technology and lines, while keeping intact the distinctive and historical features of its scooters.
Molto Verboso
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2007 Burgman 400
Joined: 30 Mar 2014
Posts: 1928
Location: Minneapolis USA
Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:23 am quote
Update on 2021 Scooter Rankings
Attila,

I retain my opinion. If you want reliability, Japan. If you want style, Italy.

Thanks for keeping us updated on the two wheeled world. You obviously
stay connected online with the industry.

Bob Copeland
Shoveled a foot of snow off the wood deck in the back of my house today.
Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4744
Location: Latina (Italy)
Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:31 am quote
Do you want to tell me that i have to put a Yamaha engine inside a Vespa?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
300CC Italian scooter, 750CC Russian Sidecar,1650CC Bavarian ADV Tourer.
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 7886
Location: The Six
Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:45 am quote
Re: Update on 2021 Scooter Rankings
Bob Copeland wrote:
Attila,

I retain my opinion. If you want reliability, Japan. If you want style, Italy.

Thanks for keeping us updated on the two wheeled world. You obviously
stay connected online with the industry.

Bob Copeland
Shoveled a foot of snow off the wood deck in the back of my house today.
So where does that put Germany? I think in some ways you get the best of both worlds but German design is a bit more pragmatic.
Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4744
Location: Latina (Italy)
Mon Jan 04, 2021 12:36 am quote
Re: Update on 2021 Scooter Rankings
Harbinger wrote:
Bob Copeland wrote:
Attila,

I retain my opinion. If you want reliability, Japan. If you want style, Italy.

Thanks for keeping us updated on the two wheeled world. You obviously
stay connected online with the industry.

Bob Copeland
Shoveled a foot of snow off the wood deck in the back of my house today.
So where does that put Germany? I think in some ways you get the best of both worlds but German design is a bit more pragmatic.
But the only german scooters have chinese engines (Kymco).
Hooked
SilverWing 600-- 4nprevious Vespa
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 442
Location: chattanooga tn
Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:33 am quote
Who cares how they look----I am interested in how they function, day in and day out. In US Piaggio = no dealers, and few very good ones at that. Vespa in my market priced out of range...and are they reliable? Agree with comment on Japan reliable---currently on 11th new maxi scooter, but this time 2019 XTown Kymco---proving to be reliable and somewhat easier to work on than the Japanese.

Vespa was great in US when sears sold them @ $325---and every town with sears store could order parts.
Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4744
Location: Latina (Italy)
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:38 am quote
I'm not questioning the reliability of the Kymko engines, what the heck, I bought a Kymko quad for my work myself and it always went well ... BMW chooses Kymko for this reason too.
The fact that for a brand there are no resellers who also take care of the assistance is not the fault of the brand, there must be dealers willing to do business with them.
Probably the target customers think that the Vespa is too expensive and buy other scooters, therefore the dealer will hardly sell only the Vespa (which is a separate brand even if part of the Piaggio group); here in Italy it is like that, nobody sells a single brand anymore.
But if you buy an exclusive vehicle like the Vespa you are also willing to spend more, you not only buy a scooter but also a symbol; there are people for whom it is more important to have an icon and the rest comes later.
You won't think having a Ferrari is more practical ...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
300CC Italian scooter, 750CC Russian Sidecar,1650CC Bavarian ADV Tourer.
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 7886
Location: The Six
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:55 am quote
john grinsel wrote:
Who cares how they look----I am interested in how they function, day in and day out. In US Piaggio = no dealers, and few very good ones at that. Vespa in my market priced out of range...and are they reliable? Agree with comment on Japan reliable---currently on 11th new maxi scooter, but this time 2019 XTown Kymco---proving to be reliable and somewhat easier to work on than the Japanese.

Vespa was great in US when sears sold them @ $325---and every town with sears store could order parts.
I totally get the lack of dealer support, that would make purchasing a Vespa a tough decision. I'm fortunate as that is not a problem here. As far as cost goes I don't think Vespas are expensive but that's a relative thing. I do believe that in many cases less expensive scoots have as good an engine as what Piaggio uses and comparable build quality. The unibody design on a Vespa does make it more expensive and unique. Of course it also makes repairing a ding a real PITA.

Beauty FWIW really is in the eye of the beholder.
Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4744
Location: Latina (Italy)
Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:09 am quote
It would be desirable for the lateral buttocks to be decomposable again, these are the points most subjected to shocks.
Molto Verboso
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2007 Burgman 400
Joined: 30 Mar 2014
Posts: 1928
Location: Minneapolis USA
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:01 am quote
Brand versus Reliability
I know that utility and price can drive buying decisions. That is why Sears
historically had "Good", "Better", "Best" as options in different produce lines.

Brand loyalty or identity can be earned over time, or just plain an emotional got to have decision. My point, Brand may not equal reliable.

I live in a suburb of Minneapolis Minnesota where I would characterize the
residents as moderately successful financially. It seems my moderately successful neighborhoods are definitely driven to purchasing predominantly
BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and Tesla vehicles. Brand image has got to be operating here.

I drive Honda vehicles.

Reliability: My daughters 2005 Honda Accord has 178,000 miles. I had to
replace the starter, battery and some shocks $700.00. I bought this Honda new and eventually gave it to my daughter. This is the only thing that has gone wrong with the Honda except another battery also at 100K.

My neighbors 2017 BMW 428I (convertible - nice looking) at 60,000 miles had to replace the starter/battery $3400.00.

Bob Copeland
Veni, Vidi, Posti
300CC Italian scooter, 750CC Russian Sidecar,1650CC Bavarian ADV Tourer.
Joined: 21 May 2017
Posts: 7886
Location: The Six
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:29 am quote
Re: Brand versus Reliability
Bob Copeland wrote:
I know that utility and price can drive buying decisions. That is why Sears
historically had "Good", "Better", "Best" as options in different produce lines.

Brand loyalty or identity can be earned over time, or just plain an emotional got to have decision. My point, Brand may not equal reliable.

I live in a suburb of Minneapolis Minnesota where I would characterize the
residents as moderately successful financially. It seems my moderately successful neighborhoods are definitely driven to purchasing predominantly
BMW, Mercedes, Lexus and Tesla vehicles. Brand image has got to be operating here.

I drive Honda vehicles.

Reliability: My daughters 2005 Honda Accord has 178,000 miles. I had to
replace the starter, battery and some shocks $700.00. I bought this Honda new and eventually gave it to my daughter. This is the only thing that has gone wrong with the Honda except another battery also at 100K.

My neighbors 2017 BMW 428I (convertible - nice looking) at 60,000 miles had to replace the starter/battery $3400.00.

Bob Copeland
To play the devils advocate here Bob, why do you own a Vespa and a Burgaman? You can arguably buy less expensive scoots with at least similar reliability. To speak for myself I have a Vespa because of the styling and history though I know it comes at a premium price. All the bikes I own (have owned) are premium brands because well... yeah maybe I am one of those but I am drawn to the brand and styling.
Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4744
Location: Latina (Italy)
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:23 pm quote
Re: Brand versus Reliability
Harbinger wrote:
To play the devils advocate here Bob, why do you own a Vespa and a Burgman?
From my areas it is said, when you have two different things with the same use, that you have bought a devil and a saint for company ... To say that you can feel calm or nervous. It's up to Bob to figure out if the Vespa is one of the two ...
Molto Verboso
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2007 Burgman 400
Joined: 30 Mar 2014
Posts: 1928
Location: Minneapolis USA
Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:40 pm quote
Vespa Burgman
Harbinger,

I use the Suzuki Burgman 400 for longer extended rides. I find the leg forward seating more comfortable. The Suzuki is bullet proof - 48,000 miles, nothing has gone wrong with it. I changed tires, belts and oil along the way. Bullet Proof. 14 years on the road - never let me down.

Every year, I would go to the Motorcycle Show and sit on and admire the classic Vespa. In 2013, I walked into my local scooter dealer (Scooterville of Mpls)
and saw a Dragon Red Vespa GTS300 Super. I could not take it any longer. A complete impulse buy that I have never regretted - I love the machine.

Reliable? The Vespa came from the factory with the water pump gasket improperly installed. Day one, the scoot over heated. This forum told me what was wrong. Quick fix covered by warranty. No problems since.

Answer - Japan for the reliability, Italy for the classic brand design.

Bob Copeland

dsc05866_29147018394_o.jpg
Longer range ride with leg forward seating and amazing air deflection - Suzuki clear side air deflectors (add on)

dsc06124_34513293045_o.jpg
Looking the look, styling the style.

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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
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Location: NWAOK
Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:34 pm quote
Re: Update on 2021 Scooter Rankings
Harbinger wrote:
So where does that put Germany? I think in some ways you get the best of both worlds but German design is a bit more pragmatic.
One of the problems for American buyers with German vehicles in general is that German manufacturers expect you to regularly service the vehicle per the maintenance schedule, and replace parts as the manufacturer dictates. They make components with that in mind. Japanese manufacturers seem to have a better grasp of American buyers and expect that you probably won't do any maintenance beyond the bare minimum, if that, and a lot of components are built with that in mind, so the entire vehicle basically wears out at once.
Molto Verboso
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2007 Burgman 400
Joined: 30 Mar 2014
Posts: 1928
Location: Minneapolis USA
Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:05 am quote
Designed Obsolescence
Motovista,

Excellent observation of German Engineering. Frankly, I had not considered that they select component parts that time out and fail. Obviously, certain parts in all vehicle makes wear out (Brakes, Shocks, Tires, Batteries, Starters).

My opinion only: Considering the Premium Price paid for German vehicles and
high end cost of service, you would think they could design component parts that would last longer.

My conclusion only: Perhaps the Japanese Mechanical Engineers are better than their German counter parts.

Despite the above, it will not slow down the rush to buy a BMW, Audi or Mercedes. Brand strength: You could put the BMW emblem on a steaming fresh pile of horse poop, and everyone would buy it. I really am not that critical of German automobiles - they are absolutely beautiful.

Bob Copeland
Minnesota
The Honda emblem on the same pile of poop would not sell.
Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4744
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:24 am quote
I would like to drive my mother's Fiat Panda on your roads to see the faces of other car drivers...

Molto Verboso
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2007 Burgman 400
Joined: 30 Mar 2014
Posts: 1928
Location: Minneapolis USA
Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:52 pm quote
Fiat Panda
After living in Italy, I have always liked and felt Europe produced some
excellent small cars. I would love to be able to drive the Fiat Panda.
My son has the new Fiat 500.

I commute 23 miles to work (One Way). I picked the Honda Fit because it gets 40 miles per gallon. It is fun to drive (small car handling) and it is a hatch back with fold down back seats.

Bob Copeland
Frost Bite Falls

Honda Fit.jpg
Front wheel drive with a decent amount of pep

Molto Verboso
Bashan 150, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 1018
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Wed Jan 06, 2021 5:01 pm quote
The Vespa GTS and BV-350 control a certain niche but venturing into the BMW C400 and Burgman 400 territory is a tough fight. The Burgman has a rabid following and the BMW is.....a BMW. People who want a Vespa buy a Vespa but the BV isn't the heritage bike a GTS is and the XMax has made a lot of noise in the class.
Molto Verboso
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2007 Burgman 400
Joined: 30 Mar 2014
Posts: 1928
Location: Minneapolis USA
Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:58 am quote
Scooter Pick - Something for Everyone
kz1000ST,

I think you did a super job putting the different scooter models in perspective.
Actually, you should be a writer or an artist.

I am rabid about the Burgman and love the classic look of the Vespa.
I did find the BMW Scooter to high of a ride for me. When I test drove the BMW I felt like I was riding on top of a rail.

Several in my riding group have purchased the new Yamaha TMax. It has the
more modern look (not classic). Appeal, big wheels, foot forward riding comfort and 300ccs to go anywhere.

Thanks for your perspective,

Bob Copeland
Minnesota

TMAX.jpg

Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4744
Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:33 am quote
Re: Fiat Panda
Bob Copeland wrote:
After living in Italy, I have always liked and felt Europe produced some
excellent small cars. I would love to be able to drive the Fiat Panda.
My son has the new Fiat 500.

I commute 23 miles to work (One Way). I picked the Honda Fit because it gets 40 miles per gallon. It is fun to drive (small car handling) and it is a hatch back with fold down back seats.

Bob Copeland
Frost Bite Falls
Bob ... I showed the photo of your Burgman with the Ferrari sticker to my friend Mimmo of Leone motorsport in Rome; he is a great Ferrari, Abarth and other brand dealer and service and he liked it very much.

https://www.facebook.com/LEONE-Motorsport-198013400406036/

PS: i have a petrol / LPG Fiat 500 X:

Member
2020 GTS300 HPE
Joined: 07 Dec 2020
Posts: 43
Location: MO
Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:17 am quote
In my choice of a Vespa, I went for style, ease of use and hoping for a alot of reliability! And sometimes you just want to stand out from the rest of the herd. Or I'm a bit of a nonconformist, which is mostly true! There really wasn't a way to 'shop around' too much where I live. I'm 67 so I just want to hop on something and go. No waiting for a bike to warm up, maneuver it around, etc. My husband was talking about getting a used bike and I thought 'he's going to go off riding without me!'. I've had my own motorcycles for 20 years. I would have ended up with a Triumph America LT if I could have found one. What a dream! It comes up off the kickstand with NO effort! But, reliability?? Warped front brake rotor 2 out of 3 years on my 2005 America (not the LT model) Sold it after that, but it was THE BEST ride. And power for the size engine. We don't have the time or inclination for long trips now, but for backroads and a little interstate, I can keep up on my Vespa. Searching for the right seat now!
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