My 1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire project.
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern Previous12
Author Message
Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:25 am quote
other side of the leg shield. big ol crack. except not really THAT big

IMG_4598.jpg

Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:25 am quote
and maybe the worst of it:

IMG_4597.jpg

Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:26 am quote
moving on from there here's the rear brake stuff, looks gross in there!

AD6691A7-2F96-4AE2-B25B-7835B4207F63.JPG

Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:27 am quote
busted weld on one of the wheel studs... gonna need a new one of these.

IMG_4653.jpg

Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:28 am quote
do I need a special tool to remove the clutch? It's pretty rusty in there.

AC6036B0-0C58-40FD-AEFB-10721D897C9B.JPG

Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:29 am quote
gear selector box is all cleaned up now

A4D91FE5-48D4-4A4B-B9F9-0EED8251FD80.JPG

Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:30 am quote
as is the carb

BAE9BA90-9DA9-43F0-84F4-0441FA06E430.JPG

Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:32 am quote
and anyone have any tips to remove the flywheel? the nut on here is some inbetween size (like 13.5mm) and has a weird piece of metal behind it making it almost impossible to get anything to attach to that nut... is there an alternate way to remove the flywheel?

D834D0A0-18EE-4907-9607-34B79437E215.JPG

Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:44 am quote
FridayMatinee wrote:
FatAmy wrote:
IF you can get the old piston ported motor free and turning you may very well make it run with some crank seals & rings unless its all rusted up. I got my
VNA running after sitting for almost 50 years. I got lucky, i never opened up the motor, in fact i put new tires on a day ago and took it out for a spin today. Its not the fastest thing but its a still a joy to ride.
My non stripped kickstarter will be here tomorrow so I can see if I can get it to budge. Figure that'll at least give me some leverage. We'll see tomorrow.
They are such good looking scooters. I was out on my Vino today. A rare 75 degree day in November!
new kickstart lever doesn't fit. the screw to cinch it protrudes into the hole for the crankshaft to slide into. sigh. either way that piston is stuck in TIGHT. soaked it since Nov6th till yesterday and it didn't seep in AT ALL. Still had the same amount of oil I put in. So looks like it'll be an engine swap happening. Unless I split the cases and can free it. Even then though what more can I do to it to get it running? I'll need a new cylinder and piston and may as well just save that cash and get a P engine and then shelf the stocker in case I wanna go back to the original set up (doubtful, but never say never!)
Enthusiast
'13 LML '70 Sprint Veloce
Joined: 01 Aug 2019
Posts: 60
Location: London
Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:11 am quote
That's lovely! The Legshield on my '70 Sprint has the same damage- caused by the steering stops being damaged which lets the headlight hit the frame.
Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:17 pm quote
Anyone got any tips on removing the floor rails? Like a how to video maybe? That's up next while I wait till Wednesday to order tools and such.

Can't do much else till I get that castle (is that what it's called?) nut off the clutch and all.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1819
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:54 pm quote
I don't have a video, but if you use an old wood chisel with the wedge towards the bottom of the scoot, at the rivet, and give it a tap, usually it'll cut that soft rivet clean and then you can just pop it out with a punch or awl.

Hope this helps.
Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:45 pm quote
qascooter wrote:
I don't have a video, but if you use an old wood chisel with the wedge towards the bottom of the scoot, at the rivet, and give it a tap, usually it'll cut that soft rivet clean and then you can just pop it out with a punch or awl.

Hope this helps.
Perfect. I'll tackle that tomorrow night. Thank you kindly
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5509
Location: So Cal
Mon Nov 23, 2020 7:01 pm quote
Quote:
new kickstart lever doesn't fit. the screw to cinch it protrudes into the hole for the crankshaft to slide into.
Take the bolt out before putting the kick lever on. The bolt fits into an indentation on the shaft.
Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:54 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Quote:
new kickstart lever doesn't fit. the screw to cinch it protrudes into the hole for the crankshaft to slide into.
Take the bolt out before putting the kick lever on. The bolt fits into an indentation on the shaft.
My shaft doesn't have any indents though.
I'll post a pic shortly to show ya
Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:56 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Quote:
new kickstart lever doesn't fit. the screw to cinch it protrudes into the hole for the crankshaft to slide into.
Take the bolt out before putting the kick lever on. The bolt fits into an indentation on the shaft.
Without looking at the shaft I now understand what you mean.... I'm an idiot. FFS how did I miss that?
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2340
Location: Staten Island, NY
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:35 pm quote
FridayMatinee wrote:
SoCalGuy wrote:
Quote:
new kickstart lever doesn't fit. the screw to cinch it protrudes into the hole for the crankshaft to slide into.
Take the bolt out before putting the kick lever on. The bolt fits into an indentation on the shaft.
Without looking at the shaft I now understand what you mean.... I'm an idiot. FFS how did I miss that?
We've all been there...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnxEZJCey4
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1819
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:58 pm quote
Ha! Reminds me of just the other day Chris and I were pulling off his flywheel to get to the stator while timing his 64 allstate. We've already done this a couple of times, so this time I thread the tool on and proceed to crank down on the bolt to pop the flywheel off...and....it's not coming off.

WTF????

Lets put a bigger wrench on it - yeah, that'll fix it!

Nope.....Hmmmm.....

Remove the puller...The nut is still on, holding the flywheel in place!

Doooohhhhhh!!!!

Now the nut is muchroomed to a 15mm.

Fortunately we didn't rip up any threads, just a mushroomed bolt. Just goes to show, we all do boneheaded maneuvers now and again!
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7949
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:04 pm quote
Also make sure you have the older style lever to match your motor, w/ splines 360 degrees that you can install whatever angle you want, and NOT the more common one with teeth only opposite the clamp bolt that only installs in one position and won't fit.


But you need to remove flywheel, split motor and remove stuck up crank, rod, piston and cyl I think. Do NOT try to kick it over with the kick start until it's turning free. You'll just be buying another one.

Be sure to mash that sheet metal retainer behind the flywheel nut down tight, you gotta remove that nut first. Then flywheel could be pulled w/ a generic puller used properly and bolted securely into those tapped holes. Use penetrant and a little heat in the center, then tap sharply on the end of the puller screw down center bolt as you slowly tighten it. Should pop off. Eventually revealing this perhaps, and your cylinder is borked anyway

Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:41 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
FridayMatinee wrote:
SoCalGuy wrote:
Quote:
new kickstart lever doesn't fit. the screw to cinch it protrudes into the hole for the crankshaft to slide into.
Take the bolt out before putting the kick lever on. The bolt fits into an indentation on the shaft.
Without looking at the shaft I now understand what you mean.... I'm an idiot. FFS how did I miss that?
We've all been there...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRnxEZJCey4
such a good movie and very appropiate in this instance!
Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Tue Nov 24, 2020 3:47 pm quote
V oodoo- Yeah I have the correct full splined one, Just didn't realize to put the lever on all the way and the screw slides into that space between the outer and inner grooves that's got no groovy.

and correct also, I have to tear the engine apart and remove the frozen cylinder and piston concoction. I only got the new lever to see if a little bit of leverage would get it to budge at all. At this point I'm not even gonna bother, and just split the cases when the castle nut tool arrives with the fork tool too.


got the floor rails off though! easy as cupcake with the chisel. Accidentally sucked up one of the rail ends in the shop vac though. Sigh. I'm not going inside the bag though-- too much lead dust in there already and I've got 2 young kiddos. Need to replace them anyways, they are beat to crap.
Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:04 pm quote
Tried to put the kickstart lever on just because and it def doesn't fit. The screw is way to big to fit in the channel on the crankshaft, the original one slides right in but is too short to use on the new one.

Oh well. Not worrying about that at all anymore.

Got the brake pedal off finally too tonight

IMG_4768.jpg

IMG_4769.jpg
And the flywheel bolt finally! Nothing more to do until I get the castle nut tool and the fork one.

Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:06 pm quote
also: How do I pull that flywheel if there's no threads on the inside ring of the flywheel? There's nothing to attach the tool to?

I'm stumped there.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1819
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:13 pm quote
FridayMatinee wrote:
also: How do I pull that flywheel if there's no threads on the inside ring of the flywheel? There's nothing to attach the tool to
There are threads in there FM, rusty as they are. When you get the tool, you'll see.
Enthusiast
Joined: 14 Jan 2018
Posts: 52
Location: H-town, TX
Tue Nov 24, 2020 9:40 pm quote
I believe thatís the older, self-extracting flywheel that needs the circlip in place as you back out the flanged-nut. I think I see a groove for a circlip in the picture.

https://scooterhelp.com/tips/engine/flywheel.old.vespa.html

C9B9608B-CE29-43A7-835E-FFC218C4C7A6.jpeg

Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7949
Location: seattle/athens
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:18 am quote
I agree, but a standard bolt down puller could work too, especially first time. But needs to be done carefully!

Also needs that damn weak link, sometimes works fine snapring too, when it goes back together. Along with the proper nut w/ big flange, which looks to be missing and would explain all this:

Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:57 am quote
V oodoo wrote:
I agree, but a standard bolt down puller could work too, especially first time. But needs to be done carefully!

Also needs that damn weak link, sometimes works fine snapring too, when it goes back together. Along with the proper nut w/ big flange, which looks to be missing and would explain all this:

The flange is there on the nut, that rusty "wing" is covering it. I had to chisel that off in order to get the socket to actually sit on the nut, even then it was angled on. Luckily I have an impact wrench so it came off easily with that but any other way most likely would have stripped that nut. That weird wing was part of the nut or was rusted on so much that it decided to get married? Could go either way.
Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:38 pm quote
There's no circlip and no threads for a puller tool. WTH?

Just double checked. There's a small groove near the top of where threads should be for the puller tool but aside from that it's as smooth as my kids bunz.

There is a little notch at the bottom where the circlip should be, I think you can see it in the pic. it's about the 4pm position. But there's no groove aside from that tiny hole.


What in the world is holding this thing on lol? Magic?
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7949
Location: seattle/athens
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:52 pm quote
Yep, taper magic
It has been drawn very tightly onto the taper on the end of the crank by the nut you removed. The woodruff key hidden inside only locates the flywheel properly, but it depends on that precise fit on the taper to provide all the driving force for the flywheel. This makes it tuff to remove, especially first time.

The correct nut and snap-ring, as shown above by Markos will do the trick usually, so get those as you should have them anyway and it 'should' then come off. The newer screw in style flywheel remover tool works well, but you can't use it on yours.
Enthusiast
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 56
Location: Philadelphia
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:01 pm quote
Re: Yep, taper magic
V oodoo wrote:
It has been drawn very tightly onto the taper on the end of the crank by the nut you removed. The woodruff key hidden inside only locates the flywheel properly, but it depends on that precise fit on the taper to provide all the driving force for the flywheel. This makes it tuff to remove, especially first time.

The correct nut and snap-ring, as shown above by Markos will do the trick usually, so get those as you should have them anyway and it 'should' then come off. The newer screw in style flywheel remover tool works well, but you can't use it on yours.
Ordered them along with the fork and clutch tools and new rubber set today, should be here next Wednesday.

So I'll put that snap ring on then put the nut back on then remove it and it should pull off that way?

Edit: forgot to add that when I removed the nut there was only a lock washer under it. Makes me wonder if a previous owner was in there and lost the snap ring and just used a lock washer instead and forgot about it
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 7949
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:14 am quote
Re: Yep, taper magic
FridayMatinee wrote:
...

So I'll put that snap ring on then put the nut back on then remove it and it should pull off that way?

Edit: forgot to add that when I removed the nut there was only a lock washer under it. Makes me wonder if a previous owner was in there and lost the snap ring and just used a lock washer instead and forgot about it
Actually, that lockwasher first, then you'd torque the nut down to spec if installing and that damn snap ring goes on LAST, but you'd figure that out soon enuff. Clean out the groove as good as you can, and install the snap-ring with sharp edge facing out, or it may pop loose next time you wanna remove the FW. Might do it this time anyway if it's real tight and you don't rig it with some way to tap end of crank safely as you carefully increase tension on the nut (brass punch thru hex drive socket hole for example, I used a std socket & vise grips in a jam. I finally found a deep box wrench that's perfect). The penetrant and heat on the FW can help, but avoiding heat at nut and crank. Good firm taps, but don't wreck the threads or bend the crank, should just suddenly pop loose but don't lose that little woodruff key.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1104
Location: Racing Capital of the World
Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:46 am quote
FridayMatinee wrote:
FridayMatinee wrote:
FatAmy wrote:
IF you can get the old piston ported motor free and turning you may very well make it run with some crank seals & rings unless its all rusted up. I got my
VNA running after sitting for almost 50 years. I got lucky, i never opened up the motor, in fact i put new tires on a day ago and took it out for a spin today. Its not the fastest thing but its a still a joy to ride.
My non stripped kickstarter will be here tomorrow so I can see if I can get it to budge. Figure that'll at least give me some leverage. We'll see tomorrow.
They are such good looking scooters. I was out on my Vino today. A rare 75 degree day in November!
new kickstart lever doesn't fit. the screw to cinch it protrudes into the hole for the crankshaft to slide into. sigh. either way that piston is stuck in TIGHT. soaked it since Nov6th till yesterday and it didn't seep in AT ALL. Still had the same amount of oil I put in. So looks like it'll be an engine swap happening. Unless I split the cases and can free it. Even then though what more can I do to it to get it running? I'll need a new cylinder and piston and may as well just save that cash and get a P engine and then shelf the stocker in case I wanna go back to the original set up (doubtful, but never say never!)
I really love those unique VNA engines.

If soaking them overtime abs hitting the pistons with a piece of wood does not prevail:

Option 1:
That being said, set the cylinder up in a press and use oxy-acetylene to heat up the cylinder. Then press out the piston.

Option 2:

Break out most of the piston and then use a boring bar to remove piston to wall. You are going 1st or 2nd over, so this part is fairly easy.

Option 3: but a good used VNA cylinder and a new piston. It may need bores, but the piston is not stuck either.
Cross Egypt Challenge - A 2400km ride throughout Egypt   Vespa Wasp Pin Badges   AF1 Racing Vespa Austin
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern Previous12
[ Time: 0.3063s ][ Queries: 25 (0.0483s) ][ Debug on ]