what oil and coolant
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Lurker
2007 piaggio mp3 250
Joined: 03 Nov 2020
Posts: 3
Location: california
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:42 am quote
just got 07 mp3 250 . oil and coolant change,,,, so what brand? is any oil good as long as synthetic and coolant made for aluminum engine. I just used honda premixed for my goldwing. Is that good?
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 21 Nov 2017
Posts: 296
Location: Austin, TX
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:33 am quote
For coolant, the best thing is to use the recommended brand in the service manual. There are a ton of colors and formulations that are possibly not compatible with the residue of undrained coolant that remains in your scooter. Best just to use the OEM stuff- you don't change it that often, so spending an extra $20 once every 5 years is pretty cheap.

For oil, there are lots of opinions, but it needs to at least meet the recommended specifications in the service manual.
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 292
Location: Belgium
Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:00 pm quote
Most importantly is that the engine oil has a MA or MA2 rating.

That indicates it is a engine oil designed and approved for use in motorcycles engines.

For coolant, I use G12 spec coolant. Same pink stuff as the factory but lasts the full 2 years without breaking unlike the factory coolant. I use VW/Audi coolant and it has the same pink dye.
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Mp3 Yourban 300 i.e
Joined: 12 Nov 2020
Posts: 15
Location: Italy
Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:27 pm quote
Just follow the specs that you can find in your user manual, it doesn't matter if you don't use recommended brand products.. I use Paraflu up - Bardahl and Repsol as hub oil.
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2007 piaggio mp3 250
Joined: 03 Nov 2020
Posts: 3
Location: california
Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:07 pm quote
thank you all for the information Good advise !
Member
2K9 MP3 500
Joined: 17 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Irving, TX
Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:06 am quote
If you want with what is available at your local parts store:

Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 Full Synthetic Engine Oil

Coolant:
VALVOLINE™ ZEREX™ G-05™ ANTIFREEZE / COOLANT

I have also used the following on Japanese and Triumph Bikes:
Valvoline Zerex Asian Vehicle Blue OR Red Ready-to-Use
Lurker
2007 piaggio mp3 250
Joined: 03 Nov 2020
Posts: 3
Location: california
Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:17 pm quote
das96s,,,,,,,,, I did buy the shell rotella T6 5w-40 full synthetic. As for the coolant I found "Ravenol J4D2078 TTC C11" In the specs it said it meets "CUNA NC 956-16". so it conforms with the manual. It was $33.69 plus $5.95 shipping on Amazon. It's a 5 liter container of concentrate so i will mix in the distilled water... Thanks
Hooked
Sportcity 350ie
Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 111
Location: Zagreb/Croatia/EU
Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:12 pm quote
Moto cool expert.
Member
2K9 MP3 500
Joined: 17 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Irving, TX
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:03 pm quote
blades33 wrote:
das96s,,,,,,,,, I did buy the shell rotella T6 5w-40 full synthetic. As for the coolant I found "Ravenol J4D2078 TTC C11" In the specs it said it meets "CUNA NC 956-16". so it conforms with the manual. It was $33.69 plus $5.95 shipping on Amazon. It's a 5 liter container of concentrate so i will mix in the distilled water... Thanks
That's quite a bit of $ for coolant.
But if you really want to be in "spec" then you gotta pay the price.
Member
Mp3 Yourban 300 i.e
Joined: 12 Nov 2020
Posts: 15
Location: Italy
Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:54 pm quote
I paid 12.50 Euro for 2 liters ready to use + 1 liter.. enough for my bike.
I don't like to keep container of oil and other fluids for years open in garage (especially if mixed).
If I need 2 litres of coolant I buy 3 liters just in case I have to fill it up during the year.
By doing this I have always "fresh fluids" to use.
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 292
Location: Belgium
Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:46 am quote
Shell Rotella T is a heavy duty diesel engine oil, NOT a motorcycle oil.

Always stick to the specified oil weight (e.g. 5W-40) with the proper oil certification. For motorcycles, including the MP3, it requires a MA or MA2 type oil NOT some heavy duty truck enigine oil.
Member
2K9 MP3 500
Joined: 17 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Irving, TX
Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:26 am quote
sbaert wrote:
Shell Rotella T is a heavy duty diesel engine oil, NOT a motorcycle oil.

Always stick to the specified oil weight (e.g. 5W-40) with the proper oil certification. For motorcycles, including the MP3, it requires a MA or MA2 type oil NOT some heavy duty truck enigine oil.
The Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 Diesel Oil in USA market has the JASO MA certification.



I've been using this oil for years plus on various Japanese, Italian, British motorcycles.
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6412
Location: NWAOK
Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:44 am quote
das96s wrote:
The Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 Diesel Oil in USA market has the JASO MA certification.

I've been using this oil for years plus on various Japanese, Italian, British motorcycles.
No, it doesn't. Nothing on the container says JASO gave it any certification. What it says is that the people who sell that oil believe it meets the requirements for that certification. It might.
Given how long most people in the US keep them, and how far they ride them during that time, most people wouldn't see any ill effects using dollar store 30 weight oil. But if you ride it long enough, you will.
The effects of using different qualities and weights of oil take tens of thousands of miles to appear, unless it's something like vegetable oil. That will probably take you around the block a couple of times. I don't know this for a fact, because I haven't ever put vegetable oil in an engine. I do know that if you put Walmart 0-30 in a small air cooled scooter and ride it in a place that gets very hot during the summer, the top end probably won't last 3000 miles.
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2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
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Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:07 am quote
You are completely correct Motovista. Not Jaso certified. Not actually suitable for motorcycle engines in spite of what many say who continue to use it. Diesel engines have a very different requirement of their oils compared to petrol engines. Shell do not advise using it in any mc engines unless they are diesel (yes, there are some diesel engined bikes out there).
Member
2K9 MP3 500
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Posts: 9
Location: Irving, TX
Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:57 pm quote
Motovista wrote:
das96s wrote:
The Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 Diesel Oil in USA market has the JASO MA certification.

I've been using this oil for years plus on various Japanese, Italian, British motorcycles.
No, it doesn't. Nothing on the container says JASO gave it any certification. What it says is that the people who sell that oil believe it meets the requirements for that certification. It might.

Given how long most people in the US keep them, and how far they ride them during that time, most people wouldn't see any ill effects using dollar store 30 weight oil. But if you ride it long enough, you will.
The effects of using different qualities and weights of oil take tens of thousands of miles to appear, unless it's something like vegetable oil. That will probably take you around the block a couple of times. I don't know this for a fact, because I haven't ever put vegetable oil in an engine. I do know that if you put Walmart 0-30 in a small air cooled scooter and ride it in a place that gets very hot during the summer, the top end probably won't last 3000 miles.
Have you seen the most recent container of Rotella T6 5w40?

The latest 2020 version of the oil container says T6 meets the performance requirements of: XXXX, JASO MA/MA2, XXX

If I could remember, Shell added the JASO MA/MA2 a couple years ago in to the container's specification.
The old old versions of container had no JASO MA/MA2 certification.

Of course, I would not never run car XW/30 oil in motorcycle/scooter especially oil with detergents/energy conserving.
It's just going to slip on motorcycle with wet clutch.
And it's probably too thin for those with high revving motorcycle engine or air cooled engine which requires at least 40 weight and full synthetic

MP3 500:
SAE 5W-40 Synthetic Oil that exceed the requirements of API SL, ACEA A3, JASO MA Specifications

Triumph:
Semi/Full Synthetic 10w/40 or 15w/50 with specs API SH or Higher and JASO MA

Rotella T6 meets the above requirements (Stated in the container)
And so far around 30k miles total on my Triumph, many more miles with my friends's Yamaha, Aprilia, and Honda w/o any issues for years.

And of course, no doubt Motul 7100, Castrol Power 1 4T, M1 Racing 4T dedicated motorcycle oil is probably better but I am showing the alternative that can be easily found at local store.

See pic below.
This Shell Rotella T6 was purchased recently from local Walmart.
Shell states that this oil meets the performance requirement of JASO MA/MA2

IMG_0032.jpg

Untitled.jpg

Member
Mp3 Yourban 300 i.e
Joined: 12 Nov 2020
Posts: 15
Location: Italy
Mon Nov 23, 2020 11:09 pm quote
So, if there isn't JASO MA/MA2 on the container it means that the oil is not suitable for motorcycles?

Here in Italy lots of people are using Bardahl xtc c60, which has all specs required (5W40 etc..) except JASO MA/MA2.
I was thinking on using this oil in my next oil change but at the dealer shop they told me that it's better if the oil respect ALL the workshop manual specs..
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3123
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:07 am quote
das96s wrote:
Motovista wrote:
das96s wrote:
The Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 Diesel Oil in USA market has the JASO MA certification.

I've been using this oil for years plus on various Japanese, Italian, British motorcycles.
No, it doesn't. Nothing on the container says JASO gave it any certification. What it says is that the people who sell that oil believe it meets the requirements for that certification. It might.

Given how long most people in the US keep them, and how far they ride them during that time, most people wouldn't see any ill effects using dollar store 30 weight oil. But if you ride it long enough, you will.
The effects of using different qualities and weights of oil take tens of thousands of miles to appear, unless it's something like vegetable oil. That will probably take you around the block a couple of times. I don't know this for a fact, because I haven't ever put vegetable oil in an engine. I do know that if you put Walmart 0-30 in a small air cooled scooter and ride it in a place that gets very hot during the summer, the top end probably won't last 3000 miles.
Have you seen the most recent container of Rotella T6 5w40?

The latest 2020 version of the oil container says T6 meets the performance requirements of: XXXX, JASO MA/MA2, XXX

If I could remember, Shell added the JASO MA/MA2 a couple years ago in to the container's specification.
The old old versions of container had no JASO MA/MA2 certification.

Of course, I would not never run car XW/30 oil in motorcycle/scooter especially oil with detergents/energy conserving.
It's just going to slip on motorcycle with wet clutch.
And it's probably too thin for those with high revving motorcycle engine or air cooled engine which requires at least 40 weight and full synthetic

MP3 500:
SAE 5W-40 Synthetic Oil that exceed the requirements of API SL, ACEA A3, JASO MA Specifications

Triumph:
Semi/Full Synthetic 10w/40 or 15w/50 with specs API SH or Higher and JASO MA

Rotella T6 meets the above requirements (Stated in the container)
And so far around 30k miles total on my Triumph, many more miles with my friends's Yamaha, Aprilia, and Honda w/o any issues for years.

And of course, no doubt Motul 7100, Castrol Power 1 4T, M1 Racing 4T dedicated motorcycle oil is probably better but I am showing the alternative that can be easily found at local store.

See pic below.
This Shell Rotella T6 was purchased recently from local Walmart.
Shell states that this oil meets the performance requirement of JASO MA/MA2
As Motovista says, I'm afraid it does not meet high enough specifications to be classified as JASO MA/MA2. Note, the label does not show it as being a JASO classified oil. None of the diesel engine oils from any manufacturer are ever likely to meet that standard. Although it may initially perform in a similar way according to the label on these newer formulations. But it's important to understand that performance may be short lived and in my opinion, won't be anywhere near as good as a proper JASO mc oil at anytime while in a mc engine. But, I haven't tested the latest version of that oil. When we tested it some years ago we found it to be the least best oil at performing in petrol engines, particularly mc engines. It is not a motorcycle oil. It was never designed to be used in a mc. It did not possess a high enough oil film strength compared to mc oils and it lacked enough of the additives that make it cling to fast revving petrol engine components which accelerated engine wear exponentially in many engines (diesel engines rev very low compared to petrol engine so they are not needed in the same quantities). It also lacks the additives that render the carbon from petrol engines harmless inside your engine. Diesel engine carbon is very soft and easy to dissolve. Petrol engines produce a smaller gritty carbon which has to be part dissolved and wrapped up to protect your engine from engine wear. Diesel engine oils performed poorly at doing that. The reason of course is that it's not a petrol mc oil. Mc oils wrap up harmful gritty deposits really well we found and have a huge oil film strength compared to diesel engine oil.

Rotella is a great oil in diesel engines, which is what it was designed for. In fact it's one of the best. But bear in mind diesel engines do not require a high specification oil as they overall run cooler than petrol engines, don't require a high oil film strength, and only have to deal with a very soft relatively harmless carbon. Shell do not recommend using it in mc's. Never have understood why anyone would put a truck oil for diesels in a mc. Oil is not something to economise on especially these days with many vehicles having a very specific need for certain additives in their oils to prevent wear and catastrophic failures. Using mc oil makes you engine last much longer and is less likely to have any premature component failures. That's simply what we found.
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2K9 MP3 500
Joined: 17 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Irving, TX
Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:18 am quote
If it doesn't protect in the long run then why Shell would even put JASO MA/MA2 on its container at al and there tons of positive experiences and reviews

Looks like they are waiting for law suits to come in especially in the USA
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 292
Location: Belgium
Tue Nov 24, 2020 8:23 am quote
Why you ask? For the same reasons you don't ever put a oil with a ENERGY CONSERVING sunburst on the can in your motorcycle or a diesel engine.

The front of the Rotella T shows a truck, a car, a tractor, and a backhoe. Why no motorcycle if it works just the same at half the cost of a true motorcycle oil?

I am a lifelong diesel vehicle mechanic. Oil is the lifeblood of an engine, and just as with mammals there are different blood types. You cannot simply mix and match even if it looks the same.

Diesel oils are engineered to protect motors that run cooler and turn much slower than a motorcycle.

Oil is cheap, engines are not. And having had previous encounters with Italian vehicles, I use strictly Eni motorcycle oil. Their 5W-40 PG (Piaggio branded) oil is half the cost of the Eni Racing stuff and is the stuff they put in at the factory.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ENI-i-Ride-PG-5W-40-litre/dp/B006NJKO6M
Member
2K9 MP3 500
Joined: 17 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Irving, TX
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:48 am quote
sbaert wrote:
Why you ask? For the same reasons you don't ever put a oil with a ENERGY CONSERVING sunburst on the can in your motorcycle or a diesel engine.

The front of the Rotella T shows a truck, a car, a tractor, and a backhoe. Why no motorcycle if it works just the same at half the cost of a true motorcycle oil?

I am a lifelong diesel vehicle mechanic. Oil is the lifeblood of an engine, and just as with mammals there are different blood types. You cannot simply mix and match even if it looks the same.


Oil is cheap, engines are not. And having had previous encounters with Italian vehicles, I use strictly Eni motorcycle oil. Their 5W-40 PG (Piaggio branded) oil is half the cost of the Eni Racing stuff and is the stuff they put in at the factory.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ENI-i-Ride-PG-5W-40-litre/dp/B006NJKO6M
Why I ask?

Because IT HAS JASO MA/MA2 certification.
Yes it's a freakin diesel oil BUT it has certification of JASO MA/MA2.

NO, it's not marketed to be an MC oil but it has JASO MA/MA2 on the container.

No. It doesn't have MOTORCYCLE OR SCOOTER PICTURES!
Because it's not marketed for motorcycle use!
BUT AGAIN: IT HAS JASO MA/MA2.

Do you have any REAL problem that you experienced on your own using this oil on your own MC/scooter?

Or you are just typing this because you are a brand snob?

No it's not about the price of the oil!
It's about what works and why throw away money if it's not necessary.
I have several powersports and I like to just buy one brand of oil/fluids for all.

This is a daily drive MP3 500. It's not even for a track use.

And don't give me crap about putting 5w-30 energy conserving oil into my engine. CAUSE I DON'T!. I put JASO MA/MA certified oil!

Did you have your own person problem using this oil?
If you did, did you document it?
Did you perform any oil analysis that shows it shears bad at XXXX miles.
What was your oil change interval?
Riding style, ambient temperature, etc.

I am putting this oil diesel oil which HAS JASO MA/MA2 certification from the manufacturer which unfortunately marketed for diesel engines not as motorcycles.

Anyways.
Put whatever you like in your scooter.
If you want to see alternative then Rotella T6 is a good alternative JASO MA/MA2 fluid that doesn't burn hole in your wallet.

Last edited by das96s on Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6250
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:57 am quote
das96s wrote:
sbaert wrote:
Why you ask? For the same reasons you don't ever put a oil with a ENERGY CONSERVING sunburst on the can in your motorcycle or a diesel engine.

The front of the Rotella T shows a truck, a car, a tractor, and a backhoe. Why no motorcycle if it works just the same at half the cost of a true motorcycle oil?

I am a lifelong diesel vehicle mechanic. Oil is the lifeblood of an engine, and just as with mammals there are different blood types. You cannot simply mix and match even if it looks the same.


Oil is cheap, engines are not. And having had previous encounters with Italian vehicles, I use strictly Eni motorcycle oil. Their 5W-40 PG (Piaggio branded) oil is half the cost of the Eni Racing stuff and is the stuff they put in at the factory.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ENI-i-Ride-PG-5W-40-litre/dp/B006NJKO6M
Why I ask?

Because IT HAS JASO MA/MA2 certification.
Yes it's a freakin diesel oil BUT it has certification of JASO MA/MA2.

NO, it's not marketed to be an MC oil but it has JASO MA/MA2 on the container.

No. It doesn't have MOTORCYCLE OR SCOOTER PICTURES!!!!!!!
Because it's not marketed for motorcycle use!

Diesel oils are engineered to protect motors that run cooler and turn much slower than a motorcycle.
BUT AGAIN: IT HAS JASO MA/MA2.


Do you have any REAL problem that you are experiencing on your own using this oil on your own MC/scooter?

Or you are just typing this because you are a brand snob?
Or you are one of those people who uses OEM brand only for everything?
If you are then good for you!

No it's not about the price of the oil!
It's about what works and why throw away money if it's not necessary.
Come on. This is a daily drive MP3 500. It's not even for a track use.

And don't give me crap about putting 5w-30 energy conserving oil into my engine. CAUSE I DON'T!. I put JASO MA/MA certified oil!

Did you have your own person problem using this oil?
If you did, did you document it?
Did you perform any oil analysis that shows it shears bad at XXXX miles.
What was your oil change interval?
Riding style, ambient temperature, etc.

I am putting this oil diesel oil which HAS JASO MA/MA2 certification from the manufacturer which unfortunately marketed for diesel engines.


And it will work just fine for you.

Almost certainly it will.

Member
2K9 MP3 500
Joined: 17 Apr 2020
Posts: 9
Location: Irving, TX
Tue Nov 24, 2020 12:10 pm quote
Amen
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 292
Location: Belgium
Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:16 pm quote
I am very familiar with Shell Rotella T. I use it in all my old diesel cars, along with Chevron Delo400.

However, you are mistaken if you believe it is a MA/MA2 certified oil.

Shell Rotella it merely states that it "meets performance requirements". That can be anything from flow rate, shear strength, just to name a few. And neither does it mean it meets ALL the requirements. It merely states "meets performance requirements"

Just to give an example, the Rotella T states that it "meets the performance requirements" of Mercedes 228.31. Fine, so it is, EXCEPT that 228.31 is a service standard from the late 1970s/early 1980s.

A LOT has changed since then in the world of engine technology.

Is Rotella T suitable for a brand new diesel? If it is Mercedes, definitely not despite the fact that Rotella T is a oil with a Mercedes approval number. In fact, Rotella T is NOT suitable for any new modern diesel that uses DPF emissions technology.

Would I use Rotella T in my Honda Accord diesel? Heck no. I use Shell Helix Ultra ECT for that since it needs a low spAsh oil to protect the DPF. But I do use Rotella T for my old 1984 Mercedes turbodiesel without reservation.

Using the wrong oil even if it has the correct weight rating is akin to sprinkling a few grains of sand inside a watch movement. Will it quit working immediately? No, but prolonged use will have adverse effects.

As for the lawsuits, if you don't believe feel free to file some against Shell and see where that takes you. Dollars to donuts their claim will be "not fit for intended use".

https://www.shell.com/motorist/oils-lubricants/helix-for-cars/helix-fully-synthetic/shell-helix-ultra-ect-c2-c3-0w-30.html
Hooked
Sportcity 350ie
Joined: 08 Nov 2016
Posts: 111
Location: Zagreb/Croatia/EU
Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:21 am quote
I would say that oil for diesel engine surely have some aditives for heavy diesel deposites what are maybe diferent then aditives needed for gasoline 4T engine. Moto oil should hold high revs and lower pressure forces so I believe there's also aditive diferences vs diesel engine oil. Dpf on diesel and catalitic converter on petrol also have different "chemistry" requirements and for sure low sap oil no needed for petrol engine.
Oil for car and truck are engineered for longer service intervals so have differnt and different portion of detergent aditives too...
...
Since I didn't spent time for research it's easier to follow common sense and use moto dedicated oil with needed grade and specifications.
I also apreciate advanced users who follow own knowledge and share with others. On this way all have benefit.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6250
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:35 am quote
I have an idea. Let's have everyone post what oil they use, and how many miles they have on their scooters. And, if we can all be honest, what potentially oil-related engine problems we have had.

I'll start.

I have used Shell Rotella T6 for almost all of my MP3 500's ~46,000 miles, since I bought it in March, 2014.
I have changed oil 11 times, so average about 4,000 miles interval.

No engine problems other than oil blow-by for the first few thousand miles (and actually at that time I was using motorcycle oil; my records indicate I changed to Shell Rotella after a few thousand miles).

Last edited by Madison Sully on Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 292
Location: Belgium
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:28 am quote
2015 MP3 500 with 30K+ mi/50K km

Eni/Agip 5W-40 PG (Piaggio Group) oil + filter every 3K mi / 5k km

Never had blow-by issues
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6250
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:34 am quote
Ah, good point about oil change frequency.
I have changed oil 11 times, so average about 4,000 miles interval.
I will append above.
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 292
Location: Belgium
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:54 am quote
Another point to consider is that (in Europe) starting Jan 1 2021 all new bikes must meet Euro 5 regulations. The current MP3 500 is only Euro4. My 2015 (current body style) is only Euro2.

If Piaggio is intent on keeping the ancient Master motor viable for sale they will at some point have to R&D the use of OPF (gasoline particulate filters) as found on a few of the new gasoline powered cars now hitting the market.

These also require a very specific oil to protect the particular filter and related emissions equipment.

https://drivetribe.com/p/the-opf-pandoras-box-for-many-petrolheads-Bm-gdk1XSxe-XzbN8VUqEQ?iid=KCu4-lefQuOjEthLjwTSvQ
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6250
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:59 am quote
sbaert wrote:
Another point to consider is that (in Europe) starting Jan 1 2021 all new bikes must meet Euro 5 regulations. The current MP3 500 is only Euro4. My 2015 (current body style) is only Euro2.

If Piaggio is intent on keeping the ancient Master motor viable for sale they will at some point have to R&D the use of OPF (gasoline particulate filters) as found on a few of the new gasoline powered cars now hitting the market.

These also require a very specific oil to protect the particular filter and related emissions equipment.

https://drivetribe.com/p/the-opf-pandoras-box-for-many-petrolheads-Bm-gdk1XSxe-XzbN8VUqEQ?iid=KCu4-lefQuOjEthLjwTSvQ
Surely there will be a specification for that oil, and that specification will be on the label of the oil(s) that comply?
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 292
Location: Belgium
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:06 am quote
It will probably be a oil like the current Shell ECT (emission control technology) that is compatible with gasoline and diesel particulate filter technologies.

Using a obsolete low tech oil such as Rotella T will cause the filters to clog up and malfunction resulting in a very expensive repair bill. Ask any diesel owner who decided to save a couple of bucks by getting their oil at their grocery store.

https://www.shell.com/motorist/oils-lubricants/helix-for-cars/helix-fully-synthetic/shell-helix-ultra-ect-c2-c3-0w-30.html
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3123
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:23 am quote
das96s wrote:
/quote]
Why I ask?

Because IT HAS JASO MA/MA2 certification.
Yes it's a freakin diesel oil BUT it has certification of JASO MA/MA2.

Hi das96s, you need to learn how to understand the oil certification labels. It is not a JASO MA/MA2 certified oil. Unlike the previous version of T6, I haven't tested this oil (I don't do that stuff anymore as I'm retired). However reading about it behind the scenes it does say it meets some of the specs which makes it perform like a JASO. But it does not meet the full requirements for your petrol engined bike. That's why Shell don't advertise it or recommend it as a bike oil. The fact so many on here seem to use it and say it's ok is not evidence that it is not causing extra wear in their engines over a long period of time. It's a great oil though in diesel engines. Not meant for petrol engined mc's as the requirements for petrol engined mc's are different. By all means use it temporarily if you have nothing else. Your engine won't explode but if it's like the previous T6 formulation it won't give long term protection over thousands and thousands of miles in the same way as a mc oil which will have a stronger oil film strength and stay in spec much better for longer. That is something we did find on the previous version of Rotella and indeed on all the diesel oils, they simply didn't work very well in bikes. Not as good as mc oil. This shouldn't surprise anyone. It's not an mc oil that's why Shell tell you to use their motorcycle brand of oil which, is very surprisingly, meant for motorcycles! It's also not a scam to get you to spend more money on mc oil. Motorcycle oils do tend to cost just a bit more because they are different and have other qualities that car and diesel oils usually don't have.
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3123
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Fri Nov 27, 2020 12:45 am quote
sbaert wrote:
Another point to consider is that (in Europe) starting Jan 1 2021 all new bikes must meet Euro 5 regulations. The current MP3 500 is only Euro4. My 2015 (current body style) is only Euro2.

If Piaggio is intent on keeping the ancient Master motor viable for sale they will at some point have to R&D the use of OPF (gasoline particulate filters) as found on a few of the new gasoline powered cars now hitting the market.

These also require a very specific oil to protect the particular filter and related emissions equipment.

https://drivetribe.com/p/the-opf-pandoras-box-for-many-petrolheads-Bm-gdk1XSxe-XzbN8VUqEQ?iid=KCu4-lefQuOjEthLjwTSvQ
Yes, in fact (and you may know this) Euro 5 actually came into force on January 1st 2020. Although that means some Euro 4 bikes can still be sold this year. Basically here in the UK it means any left over Euro 4 bikes up to 10% (I think) of the previous years sales in total can be Euro 4 and they must be what we call pre-registered. All new bikes must be Euro 5.
Hooked
2015 MP3 500 ie Business
Joined: 29 Oct 2019
Posts: 292
Location: Belgium
Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:52 am quote
Here is some detailed info re. Euro5 on motorcycles. In a nutshell, Euro5 is here but not in full effect until Jan 1 2021

Certain 3 wheelers, like the MP3, have been granted a reprieve until Jan 1 2024.

https://www.acem.eu/new-euro-5-environmental-standard-for-motorcycles-and-mopeds-to-enter-into-force-in-2020

https://www.acem.eu/the-eu-adopts-new-rules-on-end-of-series-to-help-the-motorcycle-sector-to-cope-with-the-covid-19-outbreak
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3123
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:11 am quote
Yes those are good articles. Explains it perfectly.
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