$3100 LibertyS is really $4300...
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Molto Verboso
2018 LIBERTY 150S, 2013 Kymco LIKE200iLX
Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 1277
Location: Ohio
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:21 pm quote
....out the door most places.
But Honda PCX is $4900 OTD

I had to smile at the $4300 - as I unboxed the Liberty - and the PDI only required spinning the mirrors on.
So.
O.S.
Molto Verboso
2006 LX150 (carbed) | 2007 GT200
Joined: 29 Jun 2016
Posts: 1123
Location: Toronto
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:35 pm quote
Is this reminiscing? Or did you buy a PCX?
Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4364
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:38 am quote
The Piaggio Medley 150 (12 Kw) (in Italy) also has an excellent price: 3600; and the latest version really has it all.



Hooked
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 399
Location: Norfolk, VA
Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:06 am quote
I like the new Honda ADV but have never asked the OTD price, and I'm friends with the sales guy so he would cut me the best deal on current/new model. I should ask next time I'm in there, just to know. But I like my flat floor to much to give it up. And I would pick the ADV over the PCX.
Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4364
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:08 am quote
The ADV is similar to a scooteer / motorcycle hybrid, it is a new category of two-wheeled vehicle but it is nothing new in an absolute sense. There have been and there are scooters with enduro wheels and high frames; small 50cc initially, then 125cc and now also 150cc with one exception: the Honda ADV 750. Will the other off-road scooters from other brands also grow in displacement? We'll see...
In the meantime, high-wheel scooters could be modified with off-road tires, increased and raised suspensions, variator with greater torque start; this thing has already happened years ago with motard motorcycles, they were cross / enduro models to which they have decreased the diameter of the wheels, lowered the suspensions, installed enduro tires, softened the torque ... in practice the reverse path.

Molto Verboso
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2007 Burgman 400
Joined: 30 Mar 2014
Posts: 1838
Location: Minneapolis USA
Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:16 pm quote
Piaggo Medley 150
Attila,

That Medley is super because it has the big wheels. My first scooter was the
Scarabeo 150 with big wheels. I could keep up with the Maxi-Scooters.
I finally stepped up to a 400 Burgman and 300 Vespa. The Scarabeo 150 was great, but, I was always pushing it to max rpms to keep up.

Bob Copeland
Minnesota

Aprilia Scarabeo.jpg
This was a great scooter.

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 39107
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:47 pm quote
Attila - you may not be aware that in the US the price quoted on the sales floor is NEVER the price you actually pay - there are always loads of extras on top. This applies to all consumer transactions, not just scooters.

This is unlike the EU and UK, where the ticket price is the price you pay, and shopkeepers are not allowed to claim more.
Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4364
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:47 pm quote
Bob ... obviously the choice factors are variable according to personal needs.
Hooked
2017 Piaggio BV350
Joined: 21 Jun 2016
Posts: 350
Location: Irving, TX
Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:57 pm quote
jimc wrote:
Attila - you may not be aware that in the US the price quoted on the sales floor is NEVER the price you actually pay - there are always loads of extras on top. This applies to all consumer transactions, not just scooters.

This is unlike the EU and UK, where the ticket price is the price you pay, and shopkeepers are not allowed to claim more.
Vespa Dallas always listed the Out The Door (OTD) price on their price tags (although I'm not sure why the numbers listed on the tag don't add up):

edit: Ok, I looked at the quote I got from them for my 2017 BV350, and kinda figured it out. They listed TT&L on the price tag, which most people read as "Tax, Title, & License." But it's really only Title and License. Taxes are not itemized on the price tag (both sales tax and vehicle inventory tax). Those two taxes make up the difference. Also, only the vehicle is taxed (at 6.25%), not the Title, License, PDI, and Freight costs.

BV350PriceTag.JPG
Vespa Dallas BV350 Price Tag

Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4364
Location: Latina (Italy)
Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:11 pm quote
jimc wrote:
Attila - you may not be aware that in the US the price quoted on the sales floor is NEVER the price you actually pay - there are always loads of extras on top. This applies to all consumer transactions, not just scooters.

This is unlike the EU and UK, where the ticket price is the price you pay, and shopkeepers are not allowed to claim more.
But really..? How curious ... it is very strange.
Ossessionato
GTS250
Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 3694
Location: Tempe, AZ
Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:19 pm quote
monogodo wrote:
jimc wrote:
Attila - you may not be aware that in the US the price quoted on the sales floor is NEVER the price you actually pay - there are always loads of extras on top. This applies to all consumer transactions, not just scooters.

This is unlike the EU and UK, where the ticket price is the price you pay, and shopkeepers are not allowed to claim more.
Vespa Dallas always listed the Out The Door (OTD) price on their price tags (although I'm not sure why the numbers listed on the tag don't add up):

edit: Ok, I looked at the quote I got from them for my 2017 BV350, and kinda figured it out. They listed TT&L on the price tag, which most people read as "Tax, Title, & License." But it's really only Title and License. Taxes are not itemized on the price tag (both sales tax and vehicle inventory tax). Those two taxes make up the difference. Also, only the vehicle is taxed (at 6.25%), not the Title, License, PDI, and Freight costs.
Uh, that doesn't add up. Where does the missing $400 go?
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 39107
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:51 pm quote
Syd wrote:
monogodo wrote:
jimc wrote:
Attila - you may not be aware that in the US the price quoted on the sales floor is NEVER the price you actually pay - there are always loads of extras on top. This applies to all consumer transactions, not just scooters.

This is unlike the EU and UK, where the ticket price is the price you pay, and shopkeepers are not allowed to claim more.
Vespa Dallas always listed the Out The Door (OTD) price on their price tags (although I'm not sure why the numbers listed on the tag don't add up):

edit: Ok, I looked at the quote I got from them for my 2017 BV350, and kinda figured it out. They listed TT&L on the price tag, which most people read as "Tax, Title, & License." But it's really only Title and License. Taxes are not itemized on the price tag (both sales tax and vehicle inventory tax). Those two taxes make up the difference. Also, only the vehicle is taxed (at 6.25%), not the Title, License, PDI, and Freight costs.
Uh, that doesn't add up. Where does the missing $400 go?
Sales tax and vehicle inventory tax, as suggested above?
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 39107
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:54 pm quote
Attila wrote:
jimc wrote:
Attila - you may not be aware that in the US the price quoted on the sales floor is NEVER the price you actually pay - there are always loads of extras on top. This applies to all consumer transactions, not just scooters.

This is unlike the EU and UK, where the ticket price is the price you pay, and shopkeepers are not allowed to claim more.
But really..? How curious ... it is very strange.
Each state, county and city will have their own individual sales taxes on top of the ticket price. The price of any item can vary by any difference in those taxes even between two shops from the same chain, if they are in neighbouring cities. And a city in the US is often no more than a small town...
Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4364
Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:38 am quote
jimc wrote:
Attila wrote:
jimc wrote:
Attila - you may not be aware that in the US the price quoted on the sales floor is NEVER the price you actually pay - there are always loads of extras on top. This applies to all consumer transactions, not just scooters.

This is unlike the EU and UK, where the ticket price is the price you pay, and shopkeepers are not allowed to claim more.
But really..? How curious ... it is very strange.
Each state, county and city will have their own individual sales taxes on top of the ticket price. The price of any item can vary by any difference in those taxes even between two shops from the same chain, if they are in neighbouring cities. And a city in the US is often no more than a small town...
I understand only now thanks to your explanations, it is literally another planet ...
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190, Primavera
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 6732
Location: New Zealand
Thu Nov 19, 2020 3:12 am quote
Attila wrote:
jimc wrote:
Attila wrote:
jimc wrote:
Attila - you may not be aware that in the US the price quoted on the sales floor is NEVER the price you actually pay - there are always loads of extras on top. This applies to all consumer transactions, not just scooters.

This is unlike the EU and UK, where the ticket price is the price you pay, and shopkeepers are not allowed to claim more.
But really..? How curious ... it is very strange.
Each state, county and city will have their own individual sales taxes on top of the ticket price. The price of any item can vary by any difference in those taxes even between two shops from the same chain, if they are in neighbouring cities. And a city in the US is often no more than a small town...
I understand only now thanks to your explanations, it is literally another planet ...
I arrive in LA on the way to Burlington on a secret mission to buy some Heady Topper. It's secret because my boss thinks I'm going to a conference. I have a few hours before the flight so want to catch the bus to Santa Monica beach to soak up the northern sun and exercise my eye balls. I go to starbucks and cunningly buy whatever swill masquerading as coffee will give me the right change for the bus. I am so smart. Then I count my change and cry a little at the added tax. That salty tears improve the taste of the coffee.
Hooked
2017 Piaggio BV350
Joined: 21 Jun 2016
Posts: 350
Location: Irving, TX
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:06 am quote
Syd wrote:
monogodo wrote:
jimc wrote:
Attila - you may not be aware that in the US the price quoted on the sales floor is NEVER the price you actually pay - there are always loads of extras on top. This applies to all consumer transactions, not just scooters.

This is unlike the EU and UK, where the ticket price is the price you pay, and shopkeepers are not allowed to claim more.
Vespa Dallas always listed the Out The Door (OTD) price on their price tags (although I'm not sure why the numbers listed on the tag don't add up):

edit: Ok, I looked at the quote I got from them for my 2017 BV350, and kinda figured it out. They listed TT&L on the price tag, which most people read as "Tax, Title, & License." But it's really only Title and License. Taxes are not itemized on the price tag (both sales tax and vehicle inventory tax). Those two taxes make up the difference. Also, only the vehicle is taxed (at 6.25%), not the Title, License, PDI, and Freight costs.
Uh, that doesn't add up. Where does the missing $400 go?
Yeah, what jimc said.

Sales tax is 6.25% of the vehicle cost. PDI, Freight, and Title & License are non-taxable. The Vehicle Inventory Tax rate is not as simple, as it is an extension of property tax. I found this explanation on how to calculate it:
Quote:
Unit Property Tax: To compute, multiply the sales price by the unit property tax factor. For fleet, dealer and subsequent sales that are not included in the net motor
vehicle inventory, the unit property tax is $0. The unit property tax factor is the county aggregate tax rate divided by 12 and then by $100. Calculate your aggregate tax
rate by adding the property tax rates for all taxing units in which the inventory is located. Use the property tax rates for the year preceding the year in which the vehicle
is sold. If the county aggregate tax rate is expressed in dollars per $100 of valuation, divide by $100 and then divide by 12. Dividing the aggregate rate by 12 yields a monthly tax rate and by $100, a rate per $1 of sales price.
Subtracting the price of the scooter ($6399), PDI ($200), Freight ($350), Title & License ($148.25), and Sales Tax ($399.94) from the OTD price leaves us with the VIT total - $14.53. Dividing that by the price of the bike gives us a tax rate of 0.2271%.
Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4364
Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:16 am quote
znomit wrote:
Attila wrote:
jimc wrote:
Attila wrote:
jimc wrote:
Attila - you may not be aware that in the US the price quoted on the sales floor is NEVER the price you actually pay - there are always loads of extras on top. This applies to all consumer transactions, not just scooters.

This is unlike the EU and UK, where the ticket price is the price you pay, and shopkeepers are not allowed to claim more.
But really..? How curious ... it is very strange.
Each state, county and city will have their own individual sales taxes on top of the ticket price. The price of any item can vary by any difference in those taxes even between two shops from the same chain, if they are in neighbouring cities. And a city in the US is often no more than a small town...
I understand only now thanks to your explanations, it is literally another planet ...
I arrive in LA on the way to Burlington on a secret mission to buy some Heady Topper. It's secret because my boss thinks I'm going to a conference. I have a few hours before the flight so want to catch the bus to Santa Monica beach to soak up the northern sun and exercise my eye balls. I go to starbucks and cunningly buy whatever swill masquerading as coffee will give me the right change for the bus. I am so smart. Then I count my change and cry a little at the added tax. That salty tears improve the taste of the coffee.
... I'll have to watch out for New Zealanders from now on ...
Molto Verboso
2018 LIBERTY 150S, 2013 Kymco LIKE200iLX
Joined: 26 Jul 2013
Posts: 1277
Location: Ohio
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:42 am quote
monogodo wrote:
jimc wrote:
Attila - you may not be aware that in the US the price quoted on the sales floor is NEVER the price you actually pay - there are always loads of extras on top. This applies to all consumer transactions, not just scooters.

This is unlike the EU and UK, where the ticket price is the price you pay, and shopkeepers are not allowed to claim more.
Vespa Dallas always listed the Out The Door (OTD) price on their price tags (although I'm not sure why the numbers listed on the tag don't add up):

edit: Ok, I looked at the quote I got from them for my 2017 BV350, and kinda figured it out. They listed TT&L on the price tag, which most people read as "Tax, Title, & License." But it's really only Title and License. Taxes are not itemized on the price tag (both sales tax and vehicle inventory tax). Those two taxes make up the difference. Also, only the vehicle is taxed (at 6.25%), not the Title, License, PDI, and Freight costs.
$1100 more to get a $6400 scooter out the door is one thing.....but $1200 more to get the $3100 S model Liberty out the door puts paid to Robot's sales pitch and bargain claims for this scooter!

I do love my Liberty - but having had to drop 38.7% more $$ than the sticker price to get it to the street ....is goofy....and should be addressed by Robot in his next sales pitch on utoob.
O.S..
Ossessionato
In garage: Yamaha Tricity 155 Urban 2019 - MV Agusta 125 RS 1956
Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Posts: 4364
Location: Latina (Italy)
Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:49 am quote
OldSchooot wrote:
monogodo wrote:
jimc wrote:
Attila - you may not be aware that in the US the price quoted on the sales floor is NEVER the price you actually pay - there are always loads of extras on top. This applies to all consumer transactions, not just scooters.

This is unlike the EU and UK, where the ticket price is the price you pay, and shopkeepers are not allowed to claim more.
Vespa Dallas always listed the Out The Door (OTD) price on their price tags (although I'm not sure why the numbers listed on the tag don't add up):

edit: Ok, I looked at the quote I got from them for my 2017 BV350, and kinda figured it out. They listed TT&L on the price tag, which most people read as "Tax, Title, & License." But it's really only Title and License. Taxes are not itemized on the price tag (both sales tax and vehicle inventory tax). Those two taxes make up the difference. Also, only the vehicle is taxed (at 6.25%), not the Title, License, PDI, and Freight costs.
$1100 more to get a $6400 scooter out the door is one thing.....but $1200 more to get the $3100 S model Liberty out the door puts paid to Robot's sales pitch and bargain claims for this scooter!

I do love my Liberty - but having had to drop 38.7% more $$ than the sticker price to get it to the street ....is goofy....and should be addressed by Robot in his next sales pitch on utoob.
O.S..
Is it a good thing or a bad thing? I mean ... do you think something has been overlooked in favor of something else?
PS: when I show friends scooter riders the photo of your Liberty with its characteristic license plate and the beautiful landscapes where you live, they ask me if they are scenes from a film.
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