A balancing act
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern
Author Message
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2504
Location: London UK
Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:53 am quote
For a long time I have had a judder on the front end of my 221. Between 60 and 70mph it vibrates and goes away as it speeds up. This is no big issue but when slowing down from high speed, especially suddenly its more concerning. Some years ago I brought stick on balance weights and had a go at balancing it on the scooter. Results mediocre. Better but not gone. Done this for a few front tyres with similar results. All the time I was sure it just needed doing better.

Game changer. Brought a bike wheel balancing jig on ebay, cheap Chinese garbage but hey, it worked. Now 20g stuck on (in the right place) and its wonderful, like silk brushing over velvet in the breeze.

Here's a recent thread with more discussion by our pals
Tire/Wheel Balancing


If you do this yourself, balance the hub on its own first. Be sure to fit all 5 wheel nuts.

Balancing jig.jpg
My jig. I'm going to be balancing everything myself from now on.

Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1258
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Wed Nov 18, 2020 4:04 am quote
Re: A balancing act
Hmmm, if you tried an entire assembly and put the valve stem where the weights are I wonder if you would need less weight?
Jack221 wrote:
For a long time I have had a judder on the front end of my 221. Between 60 and 70mph it vibrates and goes away as it speeds up. This is no big issue but when slowing down from high speed, especially suddenly its more concerning. Some years ago I brought stick on balance weights and had a go at balancing it on the scooter. Results mediocre. Better but not gone. Done this for a few front tyres with similar results. All the time I was sure it just needed doing better.

Game changer. Brought a bike wheel balancing jig on ebay, cheap Chinese garbage but hey, it worked. Now 20g stuck on (in the right place) and its wonderful, like silk brushing over velvet in the breeze.

Here's a recent thread with more discussion by our pals
Tire/Wheel Balancing


If you do this yourself, balance the hub on its own first. Be sure to fit all 5 wheel nuts.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1819
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:34 am quote
Good one Jack! I was pleasantly surprised when I balanced the hubs and rims on the P200. The front end used to wobble a bit when I'd go hands free. Now it's smooth as butter...

20200519_120731_resized.jpg
Balancing the hub so when I change rims/tires all that needs balancing is the rim/tires.

Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2342
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:51 am quote
I've been wanting to do this but wasn't sure if those cheap Chinese ones would be worth it. Looks so.
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1844
Location: california
Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:57 pm quote
Jack - have just a faint amount of what you describe - right between 50-55

Thatís two votes for balancing.
Suspect Iím gonna really like the effects now that Iím seeing that speed more.

Also suspect my new 11Ē rims are more unbalanced than my last.
Will be interesting to find out!

Thanks foe posting yíall.
Will let you know if it makes a difference on mine.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1819
Location: Florence, OR
Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:41 pm quote
swiss1939 wrote:
I've been wanting to do this but wasn't sure if those cheap Chinese ones would be worth it. Looks so.
This is the one I got Swiss: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PT9D8KJ/ It looks like it's unavailable, but you get the drift.

I had to lube up the bearings so it spun super easy, which makes balancing more precise.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2342
Location: Staten Island, NY
Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:42 pm quote
qa, seems all those similar ones on amazon are unavailable. Shortage of wheel balancers in the force!

I just ordered this one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07HGXCTK8/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

with these weights:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08GFQVYHG/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2795

Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:06 pm quote
I have this Marc Parnes wheel balancer that i sometimes use on my KTM's... http://www.marcparnes.com/KTM_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm In the motorcycle world, you would have the tire and tube mounted while you balance it. Also, on brand new tires (both moto and auto) look for the yellow and red "ink stamped dot". They get lined up with the valve stem depending on how your bare rim is weighted. https://www.topgear.com.ph/features/tip-sheet/do-you-know-what-those-colored-dots-on-the-sides-of-new-tires-are-for-a2600-20181008 Yes, even most scooter tires have those dots as well.

I've really never thought about balancing a 10" rim before. It makes sense though. But i've have much bigger issues finding rear brake hubs that run true and are not warped.
Jet Eye Master
PX221 Malossi, O tuned PX200 and some motorbikes
Joined: 14 Jun 2017
Posts: 2504
Location: London UK
Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:19 am quote
qascooter wrote:
Good one Jack! I was pleasantly surprised when I balanced the hubs and rims on the P200. The front end used to wobble a bit when I'd go hands free. Now it's smooth as butter...
Amazed we did the same thing the exact same way but then again, how many ways are there.
Still so impressed with the smooth riding. Wish I'd been a bit more interested in this issue years ago.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2342
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:16 pm quote
Well this one is going back to Amazon! The mounting cones are milled poorly with lots of slop in the rod so they do not sit centered on the rod hole when tightened, causing it to not be balanced without even throwing a wheel on it. And the bearings were crunchy even after lube!

Gonna try the harbor freight one tomorrow.
Molto Verboso
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 1819
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:14 pm quote
Bummer...
Molto Verboso
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 1844
Location: california
Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:46 pm quote
This one is sitting in my office waiting for assembly.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JBZ2XH8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hope it doest suffer the same as Swiss's.
Swiss - post how the harbor one is after you give it a go.
I'll do the same.
Quite looking forward to seeing what the effects are.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 150
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1258
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:30 am quote
Pimp My Wheel Balancer
I was looking at this one,

https://www.amazon.com/DURHAND-Motorcycle-Bicycle-Balancer-Truing/dp/B08B1HNCTW/ref=asc_df_B08B1HNCTW/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459657529872&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=5475553609936405144&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=200613&hvtargid=pla-942171290616&psc=1

I want it to adjust bicycle rims also. I have one that needs trued. I know with Harbor Freight Iíve bought two of something I had to have that day and used the best parts out of two boxes. Then returned the second one as defective.

Iím looking at the bearings from the point of view of wheelchairs having an off the shelf bearing. You can replace most of them with a bearing from Grainger, McMaster etc. Look for a bearing number on the seals. Racing RC cars the $1000.00 hobby grade version, not the $69.00 Walmart version, if the seals are rubber a metal shield or no shield bearing will have less friction. Or even a fidget spinner if you ever play with one of those.

If the bearings feel like they have grit in them you can usually remove the seals flush them clean, then lubricate again. Rubber seals will usually pop out with an exacto knife. Iíve taken apart rust seized bearings, cleaned the rust out, flushed with whatever I had that worked. Then relubed with grease, I only due this in an emergency when a wheel is locked up and I donít have a replacement. For the wheel balancer application Iím going to try a light machine oil.

Iíve seen complaints about the rod and cone fit, make wonder what can be done with the fit? Maybe a larger OD rod? Somebody measure the rod size and letís see if there is something a little bigger, if seen some junk, who knows maybe the rod is undersized?

https://www.mcmaster.com/rotary-shafts/rotary-shafts-5/for-motion-type~rotary/finish~chrome-plated/

https://www.mcmaster.com/rotary-shafts/rotary-shafts-5/system-of-measurement~metric/

Last edited by Christopher_55934 on Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:16 am; edited 2 times in total
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 2903
Location: Nashville
Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:47 am quote
I have a wheel balancer that I bought off Amazon that's still in the box. I never got to it before the move.

Since I have the new 11" tires & rims on the way from SIP, I'll break it out and balance those before they go on the bike.
Ossessionato
1980 P200E , 2005 Stella 177
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2342
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Nov 22, 2020 11:25 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
This one is sitting in my office waiting for assembly.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JBZ2XH8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hope it doest suffer the same as Swiss's.
Swiss - post how the harbor one is after you give it a go.
I'll do the same.
Quite looking forward to seeing what the effects are.
Well on assembly and quick test with a spare hub, the harbor freight one looks to be fine. The mounting cones are milled correctly with minimal slop in the center hole for the balancing rod. Hub spins fine on it. The only down side to the harbor freight one is that there are no adjustable feet and bubble level for the base. But that's easy solved by gluing a bubble level to the base and just using shims underneath the base to level it.

I'll report back when i actually get a chance to balance my hubs and rims on the Stella.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and new to 2018, '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 8014
Location: Victoria, Australia
Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:44 pm quote
Balanced a couple of wheels a few years ago, about 15 - 20g per wheel from memory. Wasn't the night and day I'd been hoping for, but then I looked more closely at them for straightness... and couldn't find any. After that it was an easy choice to get some decent wheels, in my case the Pinasco split rims. Have never even thought about balance since then.
Team Scooter Trash for Petfinder Foundation   vespa scooterwest scooter west Motorsport Scooters   Cool Ass scooter seat cover
Post Reply    Forum -> Not-So-Modern
[ Time: 0.1926s ][ Queries: 25 (0.0370s) ][ Debug on ]