The tale of two rebuilds - VNB2 and VNB5
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2211
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:40 am quote
If the cases are still split, tap out the circled stud, clean the rust and grease it. You don't want this seizing in the aluminum, since it's the only stud that gets all the road crap through the swingarm's hole...

20210110_125043_resized_17894.jpg

Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2071
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Jan 11, 2021 11:49 am quote
SaFiS wrote:
If the cases are still split, tap out the circled stud, clean the rust and grease it.
Excellent SaFIS - will do. Thanks for the heads-up! This is the VNB5 case. The VNB2 case bolt is out and clean...
Member
1959 Allstate
Joined: 14 Jan 2021
Posts: 17
Location: San Francisco, CA
Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:38 pm quote
Thank you for the exposure
Thank you for the recommendation to read this, I can see that there are plenty of helpful people that roam this halls. I look forward to tapping into that knowledge.

Great write up so far, thank you and keep up the great work. I know it can be difficult to both document and get things done.

Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2071
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:23 pm quote
On Any Sunday
We worked on the VNB2 today, no bitchen riding like Steve McQueen or Malcolm Smith, but it is two Sundays in a row we got to wrench. So here's the writeup

We put the case halves together on the VNB2. MJRally called at the perfect time and imparted some words of wisdom on how he puts case halves together, which we followed.

Then comes the piston and cylinder.

I almost made the call to blow off pressure testing it cause I was looking for the kit I put together, and where could it leak from anyway, right?

Well, After dinking around with sealing up the carb intake with a big slab of rubber, it was still leaking...from the top of the cylinder! So off comes the cylinder, new gasket coated liberally with red RTV, and voila - the leak was fixed.

So we checked all the other seals. An ever so slight bubbling coming out next to the metal seal of the flyside seal. Not enough to pull apart. It held air for 5 mins at 150 ppm, so it was technically good to me, but we put it on it's side and wiped a bit of red loctite on it. Hopefully that'll handle it, and if not, it's not enough to damage anything. It literally made one dinky bubble after the loctite was put on there, so after it dries, it'll be fine.

Chris says "So the lesson learned here is - If either one of us puts an engine together without pressure testing it, you get a swift kick in the nuts". Ha!

Installed the stator and flywheel.

Managed to install the old clutch, only to have to remove it because I forgot the washer that goes on first, between the seal and the clutch.

And we chased some threads of the oil plugs. We JBWelded magnets on the ends and I got a bit of JBWeld on the threads. Nothing that a die didn't fix in a couple minutes.

And that's as far as we got. The clutch cover and actuator arm need to be installed, all the rear wheel stuff, carb, and test fire. Then it'll be ready to go back in!

Oh, we did put a compression gauge on the spark plug hole and with a few easy kicks it was at 140 psi.

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The flyside case is on the hotplate

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Cylinder is on

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Holding air nicely!

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The leak was initially right at the top part of the cylinder. Reapplying RTV took care of it!

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An ever so tiny leak was happening between the case and the seal, on the right, at 3 oclock. Put some loctite in the seam and calling it good.

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Stater and flywheel installed

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Clutch and carb installed.

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2183
Location: california
Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:13 am quote
Home made chocolate muffins?
Your posts are better than the British Bakeoff channel.

Safis or others - what is the best way to remove that stud that get's rusted in place on these cases? I was afraid to do anything else with mine for fear of cracking the case. Wouldn't move at all.

20210110_125043_resized_17894_22459.jpg

Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2071
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:11 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Home made chocolate muffins?
Your posts are better than the British Bakeoff channel.
Ha! Naah, store bought, and I just like pastries and coffee

As far as getting that bolt out: I put the nut on the end and gently tapped it, then got a little more forceful, and it started moving. Then I put a punch on it and a few more taps, and I was able to get it out. I'd imagine heating the case and tapping for a really stubborn one, and using Kroil oil would do it....
Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4777
Location: Hustletown, TX
Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:21 am quote
Looking good. (Muffins too!)
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2211
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:16 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Safis or others - what is the best way to remove that stud that get's rusted in place on these cases? I was afraid to do anything else with mine for fear of cracking the case. Wouldn't move at all.
Since most of times it's a full rebuild, including silent blocks, I soak the cases in a tub full of diesel fuel. Penetrates and lubes everything. But there will always be that ONE...

This one was drilled from both sides to get it out...

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Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4598
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:17 am quote
so it begs the question - so long as the threads are good and all, it it's stuck, why not just leave it be?
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2071
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:19 am quote
WOW - I'm glad this one came out fairly easy.

Adding it to my list of must do's any time an engine is opened up. Thanks for the info SaFIS!
Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: 02 Aug 2015
Posts: 2211
Location: Veria, Greece
Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:31 am quote
John, dissimilar metals, galvanic corrosion. I have seen aluminum cracking from the expansion of the corrosion...
Ossessionato
2015 GTS300, 1974 Primavera, 04 Ninja 250
Joined: 04 Apr 2013
Posts: 4598
Location: San Diego, CA
Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:03 am quote
Ah so the concern is the eventual damage to the case, that makes sense.
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2183
Location: california
Mon Jan 18, 2021 2:46 pm quote
Wow - that bolt Safis shows was my concern...
Have heard the vat of diesel for a week method as well.
For us home garage types - I suppose heat and some more modest form of soaking might be in order.

SDJohn - I in fact just let mine last time - but I don't know if it would hold the torque of another re-tighten if I had to split again.

qas - project looking good overall!
That fly side seal on the older cases is a PIA.
Think I am sold on using one of the DRT adapters that allows insertion from the outside on my next build.
Thanks for allowing me to chime in.
Carry on!
-CM
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2071
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:26 pm quote
It's alive! The VNB2 has been officially started! Now it's time to put on the brake plate, brakes, etc, and reinstall in B-62. I'm gonna run it in the stand tomorrow through a few heat cycles, then put it back in...

https://youtu.be/yZNInWv1Icw

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Installed the newly painted shrouding

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Ready to be started in the engine stand. I added a removable post to hang the IV gas bottle.

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Now to install the brake plate and brake stuff after I cleaned it all up

Addicted
P125X, P200E
Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 782
Location: Fresno, CA
Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:44 pm quote
Congratulations QAScooter! Another job well done!

(I didn't know your engine had come from the Navy)
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1539
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:49 pm quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
Congratulations QAScooter! Another job well done!

(I didn't know your engine had come from the Navy)
Haze grey and under way.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5747
Location: So Cal
Tue Jan 26, 2021 4:53 pm quote
Nice work Scott... always a pleasant surprise when they start after being in pieces.
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2071
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:14 pm quote
Progress is slowly being made. We've been waiting on parts, and other life issues.

My mother passed away a few weeks back and we made a trip to SoCal (Oxnard) to help empty out the house. I emptied the attic - amazing how much my parents accumulated. They lived in their motorhome for 14 years and visited every state and province in North America, and every state in Mexico, and even beyond. So we all got together, brothers and sisters, and laughed, cried, told stories, and essentially loved each other up. It's the house I went to High School in. Now it'll go to another family soon. End of an era....

The weather was awesome and the motorhome ran fantastic. 1900 miles round trip.

So the only stuff I've managed to do on the engine is put the brakes and new hub together, and run it in a bit, on the stand. Soon it'll be back in the chassis.

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Cleaned up back plate and parts, ready to install

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Back plate is in

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Brake shoes in

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New sexy Pinasco hub is on! And yes, I won't forget to torque and install the cotter pin for the rear axle. :)

Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2071
Location: Florence, OR
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:23 pm quote
A couple of pics from the trip south.

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Driving over the Golden Gate Bridge

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The motorhome, affectionately known as the SS Minnow, parked on my parents RV pad.

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101 by Crescent City - four wheeling in the rig. It was dicey for a few days if we'd get home that route.

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2183
Location: california
Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:50 pm quote
Just catching up.
Lota joy packed in the first start video.
Can never get enough of those.
Why do we all hang our gas supply from the stand we are mounting the motor to?
Wonder none of us has lit our selves on fire.
On you tube.
In front of a crowd.
But I digress.

Looks and sounds fantastic.
Sorry to hear news of your mom - though get the sense she used every inch of the road. May we all be as lucky.

Thanks for sharing.
Cheers.
-CM
Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2883
Location: Staten Island, NY
Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:01 am quote
Very sorry about your mom... glad your family got together and honored her life!

Sometimes these scooters are paradoxically both so unimportant and so crucial to our sanity! Can't wait to see more updates.
Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:02 am quote
Sorry about your mom QA.

This quote says it all "So we all got together, brothers and sisters, and laughed, cried, told stories, and essentially loved each other up". Brought up right!

Onto Scoots, I am going to repeat what was suggested to me. Replace those 50 year old brake pads with something new!
Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1201
Location: Racing Capital of the World
Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:08 am quote
Chatis wrote:
Sorry about your mom QA.

This quote says it all "So we all got together, brothers and sisters, and laughed, cried, told stories, and essentially loved each other up". Brought up right!

Onto Scoots, I am going to repeat what was suggested to me. Replace those 50 year old brake pads with something new!
awesome drum. . but that 50 year old brake shoe ain't helping. get yourself some SIP's with the soft medium; you will have outstanding brakes on the big setup of yours.
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2071
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:17 am quote
Thanks guys - my parents were one of a kind, and they'd do anything to help out.

As far as brake pads, will do - I will pull the hub off shortly and change those puppies. I had another pair that didn't quite "fit" but I believe they will with the new hub.

And Jonathan - Thanks very much for the hub It's badass...
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 574
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:50 am quote
Scott, my sincere condolences on the loss of your Mother. I know the complexities of that loss, as all of us do in our own unique lives. I'm happy to hear you got to make an adventure and new memories out of a difficult time. Thats what life is all about (most) of the time. Turning lemons into lemonde, as they say. I hope that we can all embrace a lifestye of adventure and exploration as your parents did. I think as scooteriests, we already are

And great progress on the scoots, even an inch of progress is progress. keep it up! You'll be speeding along in warm weather soon enough

Live life to the fullest, and explore every inch of the road. Ride on and scoot safe!

Last edited by GeekLion on Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:25 am; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2071
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:32 pm quote
Thanks GL - appreciate the support. And speaking of inching along in progress, B-62 is officially back together! Wooohoooo! Pics below.

I ran it up and down the gravel road called a street to the neighbors gate a few times, feeling the clutch and engine and how it's all playing together. Seems pretty nice! Tomorrow if weather and time permits, I'll take it out on the pavement and go for a cruise around the neighborhood.

I've still got the old rear brakes and rebuilt old clutch in it. I'll swap out those when the new stuff gets here. Thanks for the tip on the SIP shoes - that's what I ordered.

And GL - come spring/summer, maybe a ride up to Yachats from Florence, or a ride around the Eugene area via ScootNewB (Chris)? It'd be very cool to do just that. And the 100 is coming up in June too!

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I got B-62 up on the table

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Then got her all cleaned up underneath. Probably hasn't been that clean since it came over from Italy. Ha!

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Then came the electrical - got it all put back together

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Next came cables for carb, air baffle, filter and cover. Then brake cable, clutch cable.

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Ready for the test run up and down the dirt track called a street to my neighbors gate.

Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 574
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Wed Feb 24, 2021 3:30 am quote
This is great news! How exciting! I love that feeling of a job (almost) done, and rideable. You've done some nice work.

A ride around Florence, and/or Eugene sounds great! It will happen. Spring is around the corner and with it warm roads, and safe conditions. We'll be cruising together soon enough.
Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4777
Location: Hustletown, TX
Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:44 am quote
Dig it! Looking good!!!
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5747
Location: So Cal
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:47 am quote
Clean work, as usual Scott, hope it runs as good as it looks.
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2071
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Feb 25, 2021 6:23 pm quote
Thanks BN & SCG - Appreciate the encouragement.

Speaking of encouragement, after the little run up to the neighbors fence and back a few times, I rode it on the road around the neighborhood, about 5 or so miles. It's strong, like, real strong. The new seals, bearings, kickstart quadrant, etc, seems to have made a difference. I'm stoked!

So with that, I cleaned up the garage a bit and the lift, and got Rocket in position for the chassis to get cleaned up while we're waiting for the kickstart gear and a few rubber bits. They are in the mail today, so next week sometime. Chris is coming over tomorrow and we'll get busy.

I'm also getting a bit better at welding. I realized just today that light from the overheads in shining in through the top of the welding hood and reflecting off the glass in my face, making it impossible to see what I was welding. Put on a ball cap, closed the hood, and voila, I can see what I was working on! It's the little things...

And my good friend Bruce Brickman painted this picture of Kasi, our dog. What a wonderful surprise. The dude is so thoughtful and talented. What an awesome gift.



On with the pics...

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Rocket's on the lift

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Before

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First pass - much better

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The outside cleaned up a bit. Amazing how greasy everything gets.

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I welded the gas tank stub onto the engine stand. Getting better...

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Kasi's portrait.

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How cool is that?!?

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2183
Location: california
Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:44 pm quote
Hey!
Looking good!!
Swirls are nice.
Looks like you got it!

To get that one step learner:
- Clean the metal before you weld.
- Then clean it again...
- Then acetone wipe it when its already shiny and clean.

A little antisplatter spray could help - but super duper clean - which is kinda your brand anyway - limits splatter.

Looks like you are probably using flux core?
Thats a pretty damn good weld if yes.
If no - could throw a few more in is you are using gas.
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2071
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Feb 25, 2021 9:58 pm quote
charlieman22 wrote:
To get that one step learner:
- Clean the metal before you weld.
- Then clean it again...
- Then acetone wipe it when its already shiny and clean.

A little antisplatter spray could help - but super duper clean - which is kinda your brand anyway - limits splatter.
Thanks CM22! Flux core it is. I hit it with the wire wheel on the grinder for clean, then went for it. Next time I'll wire wheel, then clean, then acetone.

And I'll look up what anti-splatter is. I usually take a grinder to the splatter but took the picture before I did.

I'm going to be welding some drag wheels on the RV in the next week or so, so your advice is perfectly timed. Thanks again!
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2948

Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:42 pm quote
Sorry to hear that your mom passed away Scott.
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1539
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:39 am quote
qascooter wrote:
charlieman22 wrote:
To get that one step learner:
- Clean the metal before you weld.
- Then clean it again...
- Then acetone wipe it when its already shiny and clean.

A little antisplatter spray could help - but super duper clean - which is kinda your brand anyway - limits splatter.
Thanks CM22! Flux core it is. I hit it with the wire wheel on the grinder for clean, then went for it. Next time I'll wire wheel, then clean, then acetone.

And I'll look up what anti-splatter is. I usually take a grinder to the splatter but took the picture before I did.

I'm going to be welding some drag wheels on the RV in the next week or so, so your advice is perfectly timed. Thanks again!
If you can get a tank of gas, try it. I leased a tank from a local welding supplier. Made a huge difference in splatter, using my mig with my amateur welding. When I was practicing welding I had been using flux core. I bought a tank of gas and solid core and could tell immediately the splatter went away. That roll of flux core is sitting in a box as a paper weight on the bottom shelf of my welding stand.
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2948

Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:30 am quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Home made chocolate muffins?
Your posts are better than the British Bakeoff channel.

Safis or others - what is the best way to remove that stud that get's rusted in place on these cases? I was afraid to do anything else with mine for fear of cracking the case. Wouldn't move at all.
Mine have never been 100% seized, but closer to 98%. What i do with any dirty cases that i get, is to stick the end of a pressure washer wand down through the opening in the swingarm and blast all the gunk out. And a coin-op pressure washer might not be high enough pressure to clean out all the solidified gunk back in there. I happen use a belt drive 3500 psi washer with a zero degree tip, rain gear, and safety goggles, and let it rip. Will that get the bolt out, no. But it will let you see what all is going on and you will have an easier time getting penetrant oil on both end of the bolt. Hopefully LOTS of heat on the bolt will get it out the rest of the way. If not then it may be time to start drilling. Once the old bolt is out install a new one with plenty of anti-seize.
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2071
Location: Florence, OR
Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:58 pm quote
Thanks WhoDat. Much appreciated.

And thanks for the input Christopher on getting a tank. Maybe someday...

Today was a totally bitchen day!

Chris came over and we ate chocolate muffins, drank coffee, listened to Jackson Brown and BS'd a bunch. Oh, and replaced the clutch cable on Rocket, cleaned it up some more, removed the rear shock for replacement, and adjusted shifter cables. The chassis is ready for the engine.

As if that wasn't enough of a treat, we bundled up and went for a ride through Florence, on Olive and B-62, in the rain! It was awesome.

B-62 is officially rolling. I'm running it on the old rebuilt clutch and ancient rear brakes, but it's rolling. Those parts will be replaced when they come in next week.

The rebuilt engine isn't what I was expecting - it's a whole lot more. More compression, tighter, feels more solid riding, and sounds awesome. It used to sound like a box of rocks. Now it purrs like a 2t should.

I rode it over the bridge into town, then Chris rode it from there. I wanted to watch it from different angles, and I can ride it anytime. The new engine mounts keep the wheel perpendicular to the road, and it just looks totally badass rolling.

Chris hit 57 mph without trying, sitting up straight, not even winding it out. Since this cylinder and piston ran in a while ago, I only ran it through 3 or 4 heat cycles before today, and figured that was enough, and we weren't pushing it today - just feeling it out to see how it runs.

Since it's a three speed, when he'd give it gas in 2nd, I'd have to grab a throttle full and wind up the LML to catch back up to him. It was super cool to see it from a different perspective, and I know I'm going to have some fun riding it around town and to the beach and lakes around here.

I didn't take many pictures cause I basically was having too much fun BSing and riding to remember to take pictures for y'all.

Anyway, can you tell I'm excited?!? One down, and one to go...

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Chris going deep...

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Mr. Safety admiring how nice B-62 runs

Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 574
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:05 am quote
Oh man!!! I cant tell you how happy this makes me! I have grin from ear to ear just picturing you 2 crusing around in the cool Oregon weather! I'm so happy B62 is rolling right! Congratulations. And Chris will be there on 8" in no time! This update just made my day
Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2183
Location: california
Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:25 pm quote
I second that emotion.
Looks great.
Damn - there is a lotta coffee drinking and muffin sampling in preparation for work that is done up there.
Like your style.
Addicted
'66 Super 150
Joined: 11 Jul 2017
Posts: 766
Location: MN
Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:45 pm quote
Hi Qa

Just read your first and last post in this thread.....

(sorry, Iím kind of absent from MV during the winter months and miss a bunch of good stuff)

Iím so excited to read the middle! Congrats on your success!!

Love how you incorporate delicious foodie treats into scooter repair

(and back to reading the middle...)
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2071
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:53 am quote
Thanks GL, CM and K22!

Not much to share EXCEPT - The VNB5 kickstart gear arrived, and Chris is coming over today! So in the meantime I've been working on rearranging and cleaning the garage, and cleaning parts in preparation for today.

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I put a rubber plug in the spark plug wire hole, since it's now Electronic Ignition, the hole just allows dirt in.

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Cut the plug off on the inside...

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Dirty brake plate and brake parts

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Clean brake parts

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Dirty carb parts

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Carb cleaned, reassembled, and ready to go

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The engine halves, patiently waiting to be put together...

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