The tale of two rebuilds - VNB2 and VNB5
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Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1205
Location: Racing Capital of the World
Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:00 am quote
qascooter wrote:
Thanks GL, CM and K22!

Not much to share EXCEPT - The VNB5 kickstart gear arrived, and Chris is coming over today! So in the meantime I've been working on rearranging and cleaning the garage, and cleaning parts in preparation for today.
update your carb filter to a 20.20. you have an earlier one which you had to cut in order to fit your newer 20.20 carb. you will not regret it.
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2072
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:09 am quote
GickSpeed wrote:
update your carb filter to a 20.20. you have an earlier one which you had to cut in order to fit your newer 20.20 carb. you will not regret it.
Thanks Gick - It's on order. It looks like the person that put the 20/20 carb on Rocket cut out the old choke mechanism for the old carb. A shame.

Speaking of that - I've got a 20/15 carb and proper filter if you come across anybody doing a restoration, vs just a upgrade/rebuild. Actually, I've got all the parts - Cylinder/Piston/Shocks.....
Molto Verboso
Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 1205
Location: Racing Capital of the World
Sun Mar 14, 2021 8:26 am quote
qascooter wrote:
GickSpeed wrote:
update your carb filter to a 20.20. you have an earlier one which you had to cut in order to fit your newer 20.20 carb. you will not regret it.
Thanks Gick - It's on order. It looks like the person that put the 20/20 carb on Rocket cut out the old choke mechanism for the old carb. A shame.

Speaking of that - I've got a 20/15 carb and proper filter if you come across anybody doing a restoration, vs just a upgrade/rebuild. Actually, I've got all the parts - Cylinder/Piston/Shocks.....
i have an entire tote of 20.15 and 20.17 carbs.

There was a local guy that thought he knew what he was doing, thought he was cleaver, and rode his Allstate across the great state of Indiana with the front swingarm spring not screwed into the plate holder. it must have been the worst riding Allstate ever. anyways, some other folks bought this bike after his "epic" ride with friends and had me go through it. Not only did he not match the carb box to the new 20.20 carb, but he cut the filter up to match the carb much like what you have there. "i've done restoration before, this should be simple. i got this." okay.
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2072
Location: Florence, OR
Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:39 pm quote
I hear you Gick. People's ignorance amazes me sometimes. Not that they don't know, it's that they think they know.

I know enough to KNOW I don't know. Well, not everything, but definitely not to do a restoration, and to know the difference between restoration and refurbishing.

On to todays endeavors!

Chris came over and we were psyched to get the engine running - spoiler alert - we're back to where we started!

Here is the blow-by-blow:

So we heat up the fly side of the case and put the case halves together, bolt and torque it down. Hmmm, the seal doesn't look right on the fly side case. We melted it while heating up on the hotplate.

Split the cases, replace the fly side seal and put the case halves together, bolt and torque it down. Dangit - here is the kickstart gear - fell out when splitting the cases.

Split the cases, in the kickstart gear and put the case halves together, bolt and torque it down. So far so good.

Install piston, cylinder, head, and pressure test - wooohooo - holding solid while we BS and drink coffee and eat cinnamon rolls.

So, install the carb, ....and stator, .....and flywheel

Then comes the clutch - we got it installed and realized it wasn't working right. We forgot the washer behind the clutch. After putting the washer in, we couldn't get the clutch to slide onto the woodruff key - filing and screwdrivers were involved....until....I noticed the seal behind the washer was damaged, by said screwdriver trying to pop the back of the woodruff key down and slide it into the clutch. DAMN

Split the cases - for the third time - and put in the new clutch side seal. Fortunately we had a spare set of seals.

And we ran out of time for the day. So we're essentially where we started. I enjoyed BSing in the garage with Chris and also learned two valuable lessons:

1) Don't overheat the rubber seal when heating up the case, and
2) Dont f&ck up the seal behind the clutch with a screwdriver - and don't forget the washer, which would've prohibited the seal from getting whacked by the screwdriver.

Still, a great day wrenching

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Chris heating up flyside case half

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Crispy seal

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On goes the head

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Pressure is holding - premature celebration of more coffee!

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Sexy Pinasco clutch

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Damaged clutch side seal

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New clutch side seal installed. Back to square one

Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 591
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:08 am quote
Great work guys!!! Very inspiring. Celebratory Coffee is well deserved
Member
Vespa 152l2
Joined: 04 Dec 2018
Posts: 32
Location: location
Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:30 am quote
I think you might find it's the main crank bearing that goes in first and butts up against the circlip, then the seal goes on after the bearing is fully installed. You'll need to use a crank bearing installation tool, or heat up the casing around this area to install the bearing.
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2072
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:36 pm quote
VNB5 is ALIVE
So we got the VNB5 started, and the first heat cycle.

We had a couple of scares - stripped out the old flywheel bolt - thought it was the new crank! And snapped off an old bolt for the clutch cover. It came out easily with a pair of pliers.

As far as the pressure test, it was holding steady at 140 for 7 minutes while we BS'd. Sweet.

Now to run a few more heat cycles on the stand, and reinstall in the chassis.

The kickstart quadrant is jacked, and we didn't put in a new one, thinking the old one was OK. So we're going to try a new kick start arm first, and if the cases need to be split once again, so be it...

BTW, we went for a fun, rainy ride to the beach and did a couple of runs comparing the P200 vs the 177. The 177 pulls stronger

This is the very first start - with all the fiddling included. It even started with the kickstart lever slipping a set of teeth.
https://youtu.be/6vqAqb36uMI

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Pressure testing the case

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Are we having fun yet? Oh yeah!

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Jetty overlook

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Ocean stop

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Old Town harbor stop

Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4800
Location: Hustletown, TX
Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:41 pm quote
dig that!
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8128
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:36 pm quote
Quote:
Are we having fun yet? Oh yeah!
I know that I wish I lived much closer and come play with you boys sometimes.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5771
Location: So Cal
Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:47 pm quote
Isnít it amazing how a two-stroke engine can bring so much joy?
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2072
Location: Florence, OR
Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:07 am quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
Isnít it amazing how a two-stroke engine can bring so much joy?
I know - crazy!

Thank BN!

And Voodoo - you are welcome to come hang out ANYTIME! I even got a scooter for you to ride. Yes, that's right, three running, vintage scooters. It could've been three scooters in those pictures yesterday.

Something tells me we'd have more fun coming up to your neck of the woods though.
Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2072
Location: Florence, OR
Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:11 pm quote
Getting closer
Slow progress. The kickstart lever on Rocket is stripped. A new one (with a quadrant) has been ordered.

Chris has been busy with work so I've been continuing work on Rocket - slowly.

So I put the brake assembly together,
The engine back in the chassis,
Reinstalled the selector box,
Dialed in the clutch and brake cable.

Then I realized I haven't taken a close look at the kickstart quadrant and compared it to B62's brand new one. It looks like the quadrant needs to be replaced or the new lever is gonna get stripped. The divot where the bolt goes has been elongated on top of the quadrant.

Dangit - gotta split the cases - again. Maybe we'll do it while it's in the chassis. Hmmm...

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Brakes assembled - I won't bore you with all the other pics of the assembly process

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Sexy Pinasco hub

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Kickstart quadrant ovalized top the bolt cutout. No good...

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I took the motorhome in to get some work done on it and rode the scooter home. It was a bit chilly outside.

Hooked
1963 Vespa VBB, 1965 Allstate Cruisaire, 1974 Vespa Super, 2003 Stella 2T
Joined: 31 Jan 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Kansas City
Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:18 pm quote
Re: Getting closer
qascooter wrote:
The divot where the bolt goes has been elongated on top of the quadrant.
QA, do you have a welder? I had a similar thing on the headset bolt on Rufus (since you give your scoots names the red Allstate I am close to finishing is Rufus). I filled it with some weld and then smoothed it out. Worked great.

Yes, concern about heat so close to the case BUT you can have a cold wet rag and douse it as soon as the weld is in. I would absolutely do that before opening the case.

D
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