A California 2-tone legend in TX (66 VSC Resto)
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Ossessionato
79 P200E, 62 Allstate, 2008 Stella
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 2072
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:53 pm quote
Birdsnest wrote:
I will make sure it’s as good as as can be for the next caretaker.
Right on!
Petty Tyrant
GTS250 GTS300 MP3 500
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 29886
Location: Bay Area, California
Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:25 pm quote
As you were, then.
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 591
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:53 pm quote
Love the positive attitude! Ain't nuthin cant be fixed with some time, money, hard work, study, time, perseverance, time, money, hardwork, time and money. Even the hard stuff is fun on a Vespa! Keep up the good work.
Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4800
Location: Hustletown, TX
Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:16 am quote
Horn Update
I was going to wait to post an update on the horn until the repair was complete... but I am now off down another rabbit hole, so I figured a quick update was worthwhile...
First and foremost - thanks to everyone who advocated for backers and braze. It worked better than anticipated and Terry's nail idea was a real gem.
Next - Mark gets the kudos for his steady hand with the torch... he was better at it than me by a mile!

Learning curve 1. Heat.
Propane is not hot enough. You will need Map gas at least..
Even with Map I was still having big issues and finally found that you really need to have a high heat tip. The benzomatic general purpose tips you buy at Lowes or Home depot just struggle to get you up to the proper temps. I ended up buying this tip from Amazon and it worked a treat:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081F82B67/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Learning Curve 2. Practice.
I still need a ton. I brazed 4 or 5 holes on the horncast in about 45 minutes. (And they were the easy ones) Mark stepped in and did the rest (and the more complicated ones) in about 15 minutes. I need way more practice obviously.


Process.
As mentioned Terry's idea about nails as backers was the winner. Mark thought tacking them in place instead of holding them in place while brazing was the best path forward and brought over his welder. Ace idea.
After all the nails were in place, I took a cut off wheel and reduced the stab factor of nails. (A. Clearly we have established I am accident prone. B. Easier to work around).

We then brzaed.
Then, took a flap wheel and a dremel and ground things down.

Sunday I went back and tried to close up some of the bigger pinholes.
This is a challenge as you obviously melt the brass again and can make matters worse... Luckily I was successful on the horncast. I was less successful on the tail area. But... that's another post...

It still needs some final dolly and hammer work and a touch of mud in a spot or two, but 95% sure we will keep the horn OG.

Hornnails.jpg
Hellraiser

Horn gbrazed.jpg
first pass

Horn G brazed 2.JPG
cleaned up and ready for more D&H

Addicted
1967 Granturismo 177, 1979 P200E, 1974 Primavera 125 Hooligans S/C Seattle/Austin
Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 605
Location: Austin, TX
Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:01 am quote
Looks great
Almost as if it never happened. A little bit more and a coat of paint, it'll be unnoticeable.
Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 591
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:18 am quote
Nice work saving that horncast. Looks miles better!

You're racking up the experience points, and you'll level up in no time! Learning is fun!! haha
Hooked
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
Joined: 24 Nov 2016
Posts: 275
Location: Flatness, TX
Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:29 pm quote
Not gonna lie.... I was kinda digging the ‘hellraiser’ look just a tad bit.....

But alas, must stay true to the bike!

F0D5544A-3522-458A-A8A9-704C98227F94.jpeg

Ossessionato
VSX, Stella 177, VNX1T, V9B1T
Joined: 20 Jul 2018
Posts: 2907
Location: Staten Island, NY
Mon Mar 08, 2021 1:14 pm quote
Now that would be an awesome themed rat scoot!
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8128
Location: seattle/athens
Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:15 pm quote
You just need a car to match!

Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4800
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:28 am quote
Back
Sorry for the delay in updates. Progress slowed to a crawl on the SS. As mentioned elsewhere, when trying to fill some pinholes on the tail I melted some braze on the inside, (Eeek) and then subsequently we found a couple cracks in the frame. If you zoom in on the pic you can see them running perpendicular the center line.

Needs more than braze work to get a long term, quality fix.

Of course... My welder Daryl has gone MIA, which sucks cause A. he was close B. he was good. C. he was hilarious. But, BUT... an old friend Sean put me in touch with his brother who lives an hour away but has been a professional welder for 30+ years, and the guy rides PTWs... When I showed him the scoot and the work needed I mentioned, "Obviously, burn through was a concern." He didn't even pause and replied, "Eh, I welded aluminum panels for airplanes for 20 years. There won't be burn through."

My man!

...hopefully we will finish all the welds this weekend.

(So, maybe a week or two from media blasting and paint prep? )

Forward.

SS180 Tail.JPG

Ossessionato
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
Joined: 26 Jan 2019
Posts: 2202
Location: california
Fri Mar 19, 2021 7:49 am quote
Quote:
Mark thought tacking them in place instead of holding them in place while brazing was the best path forward and brought over his welder. Ace idea.
. Still liked my idea of Mark pulling on the nails while you brazed - but what ever.
Quote:
My welder Daryl has gone MIA, which sucks cause A. he was close B. he was good. C. he was hilarious. But, BUT... an old friend Sean put me in touch with his brother who lives an hour away
Daryl, and his other brother, Daryl.
Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4800
Location: Hustletown, TX
Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:08 am quote
Quote:
Daryl, and his other brother, Daryl.
*snickers*
It is now certain I will accidentally call him Daryl at some point.[/quote]
Molto Verboso
Vespas 1964 GS160, 1965 SS180, 1977 V9A1T, 1983 PX150E
Joined: 16 Apr 2011
Posts: 1674
Location: Siam
Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:02 am quote
It’s looking good man. They are great riding bikes. I really like the the way they sound, run, and feel while cruising. You’ll be stoked for sure.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8128
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:46 am quote
And I'm curious why you didn't just keep going and completely weld in the nails, then grind flush. Welding is how I've done it so far on all frame repairs, but I wanted to learn more about brazing which doesn't melt the steel for in places the nail trick won't work or I can't get my copper heatsink in behind.

The 16D nail is fatter than the sheet metal, and with the welder on a low setting you can get a good weld because the nail acts a heat sink to help prevent blowing thru. I also use the fat nails laid in sideways in small gaps as filler to make a good weld easier.

Hooked
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
Joined: 24 Nov 2016
Posts: 275
Location: Flatness, TX
Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:52 am quote
V oodoo wrote:
And I'm curious why you didn't just keep going and completely weld in the nails, then grind flush. Welding is how I've done it so far on all frame repairs, but I wanted to learn more about brazing which doesn't melt the steel for in places the nail trick won't work or I can't get my copper heatsink in behind.

The 16D nail is fatter than the sheet metal, and with the welder on a low setting you can get a good weld because the nail acts a heat sink to help prevent blowing thru. I also use the fat nails laid in sideways in small gaps as filler to make a good weld easier.

The consensus was that we could tack a weld to hold the nail in place, and then braze with no worry of blow through or excessive heat warpage. I was scared to weld all the way around as all I have access to is a DC flux core wire welder. Not a TIG or MIG. Fearful of too much heat and blowing through the sheet part even with the nail as a heat sink. Hope this makes sense.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8128
Location: seattle/athens
Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:36 pm quote
It makes perfect sense. I don't know how to use those newer flux core wire welders but I tried a sketchy one once and I can see how it would be hard to control.
I use an old 220V Montgomery Ward 200 amp buzz box stick welder that I can turn way down with the smallest rod they sell. I use a copper heatsink behind the weld and only a quarter inch at a time, and let it cool a bit between. But practice, lots of practice is your best friend!
Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4800
Location: Hustletown, TX
Tue Mar 23, 2021 2:35 pm quote
Welding on the rear is done
Dolly and hammer is 90% done
Raised all the low spots I could.

Gonna spritz some primer on and sand a bit to ID and take care of some high spots... and then off for media blast and real paint.

5BE99AF1-AC6E-4D3B-A286-9FC6C9A6CB06.jpeg

Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4800
Location: Hustletown, TX
Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:36 pm quote
Speaking of paint.... Opinions please:

OG SS red from 65?
(The tasty darker red... was also the original color of the bike)

Or pavone blue?
(Which was technically a 66 + color.)

Show your work!

Thanks in advance.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8128
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:12 pm quote
Why just one color? I kinda like this period correct combination because YOLO.





Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8128
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:19 pm quote
On a more serious note, have you considered white? I dunno the years, but is a proper SS180 color.

Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7703
Location: San Francisco
Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:24 pm quote
if two tone then Grimstead Hurricane

I've always thought white was "THE" color for the GS/SS, until I saw the blue, but if it was originally red...
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5772
Location: So Cal
Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:26 pm quote
Both are beautiful. No wrong choice.
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7703
Location: San Francisco
Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:38 pm quote
regarding paint, more than color is can you get a good single stage?
Hooked
Joined: 13 Dec 2014
Posts: 215
Location: Ohio USA
Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:38 pm quote
If you are doing a color change, Blu Pavone. If it's originally Rosso, I'd go with that, as it's original. So many white ones... Or do some 'nammer two-tone for maximum resale value(sic).

Kidding about two-tone, don't do that unless you are REALLY going all Grimstead. And I mean full 200cc spec, Hurricane speedo, etc.

Just my two cents.

Looks like a nice rescue.
Style Maven
74 50s x3 78 P200 x2 84 Cosa PK50XL2 58 AllState 68 Sprint 80 50special '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8128
Location: seattle/athens
Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:47 pm quote
Blue or white, not red, if it was mine. I think you like blue too or you wouldn't put it out there even though not ORIGINAL for the year(?). Therefore, just do the beautiful blue, but let's see a damn pic!
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8650
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:48 pm quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
regarding paint, more than color is can you get a good single stage?
this is critical, i think. a two stage isn't gonna look right. maybe could get away with an integrated clear, though.

but i'm with you on it patrick. it's gotta be that single stage look.

-g
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8650
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Tue Mar 23, 2021 4:51 pm quote
red, but the *right* red. that deep almost burgundy red. but also can't go wrong on the blue that's sexy too.

my third thought is off the rails: something from a car that's period correct?

just not ferrari red.

-g
Banned
2:6
Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 7703
Location: San Francisco
Tue Mar 23, 2021 7:01 pm quote
wait, is this a '65 or a '66?

If it's a '65 you have to return the Mickey Mouse tail light, them's the rules...
Ossessionato
Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 2954

Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:04 pm quote
oopsclunkthud wrote:
wait, is this a '65 or a '66?

If it's a '65 you have to return the Mickey Mouse tail light, them's the rules...
I hear that many people here have had bad luck with shipping companies lately. It might just be quicker to just snap the ears off instead. It will save time so the UPS driver doesn’t have to do it.
bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x 2), 74 Primavera (x 2), 06 Fly 150
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Posts: 5772
Location: So Cal
Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:19 pm quote
Definitely use a quality single stage. A little clear mixed in the final coat(s) like greasy suggested is ok, will give it extra gloss and depth, but go easy. Do not let your painter talk you into a 2 stage.

645D0A9A-BD72-42CA-A77B-0C755768AD84.jpeg
The red

A9802A43-3376-488E-A27C-0D0EC999201D.jpeg
The blue

Addicted
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: 06 May 2019
Posts: 591
Location: Roseburg, Oregon
Tue Mar 23, 2021 11:49 pm quote
I have 1 strong vote for Rosso, The original Red. It would be really awesome to TRULY restore this scooter to the way it was originally; including the original color for this scooter. So many scoots get color changed, and I'm down for any color really; but you have a chance to restore this particular example to the way it was. I think thats pretty cool.

My second vote is for Blue.

And here is where I place the standard boiler plate tag line: "its Your scooter, so do what You want" You're doing good work so far. Whichever way you go with color, good luck!
Molto Verboso
2007 Stella 225
Joined: 02 Nov 2019
Posts: 1580
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:50 am quote
Red is my favorite color, but I lime blue cars for some reason. Pick one I don't think you could go wrong with either.
Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4800
Location: Hustletown, TX
Wed Mar 24, 2021 5:20 am quote
whodatschrome wrote:
oopsclunkthud wrote:
wait, is this a '65 or a '66?

If it's a '65 you have to return the Mickey Mouse tail light, them's the rules...
I hear that many people here have had bad luck with shipping companies lately. It might just be quicker to just snap the ears off instead. It will save time so the UPS driver doesn’t have to do it.
This made me laugh.
Thanks for all the replies so far. I am still on the fence. The arguements being made are the very same I have been having with myself. Oh , and I hear ya on the single stage. Noted.

The scoot is titled as a 66, but the frame and engine number put it smack in the middle of the 1965 production run. (So, yes, I do in fact need to return the mickey mouse... to Jess. You guys can wrestle over it. )

In all seriousness, I am still trying to find an affordable way to get it scanned so folks can repop. And if I don't use it, after scanning... I will happily return - or sell publicly and donate 100% of the proceeds to you and Jess' charity of choice.
Molto Verboso
Gina, 1965 Vespa 180SS, Bella,1968 Vespa 150 Super, Francesca, 2006 Vespa LX150, Sofia, 2007 Vespa GT200, Gabriella, 2017 GTS300 ABS
Joined: 21 Jan 2015
Posts: 1391
Location: Hamilton/Kirikiriroa, NZ
Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:00 am quote
Red!

9E26F190-73B5-480A-807E-6D0E0598A375.jpeg
Mine

Hooked
Joined: 08 Sep 2011
Posts: 369

Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:55 am quote
"S" is for sport. Gotta be red.

5dd77401264d7f8a6e11d96829ffbca2.jpeg

Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4800
Location: Hustletown, TX
Thu Mar 25, 2021 7:35 am quote
Piglet,

That is a fine specimen!
Enthusiast
VBA
Joined: 12 Mar 2018
Posts: 94
Location: Texas
Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:44 pm quote
Blue Pavone. A lot of scooters out there are already red.

But if you do go red, at least when there is a group ride you will get the ticket and not me. /s
Molto Verboso
Gina, 1965 Vespa 180SS, Bella,1968 Vespa 150 Super, Francesca, 2006 Vespa LX150, Sofia, 2007 Vespa GT200, Gabriella, 2017 GTS300 ABS
Joined: 21 Jan 2015
Posts: 1391
Location: Hamilton/Kirikiriroa, NZ
Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:33 am quote
Birdsnest wrote:
Piglet,

That is a fine specimen!
Thanks. It sits awaiting a small part that I lost - despite bagging everything as I took it apart and I have a photo to prove it was there. Hopefully it isn't on the ship stuck in the Suez Canal. (I know it's not, that was going from China to the Netherlands.)
Molto Verboso
Gina, 1965 Vespa 180SS, Bella,1968 Vespa 150 Super, Francesca, 2006 Vespa LX150, Sofia, 2007 Vespa GT200, Gabriella, 2017 GTS300 ABS
Joined: 21 Jan 2015
Posts: 1391
Location: Hamilton/Kirikiriroa, NZ
Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:42 am quote
By the way, mine is painted the same red as used in New Zealand when they were assembled here.
There have been various posts over the years about New Zealand Vespas of that era. We had a heavily protected economy and we favoured the Motherland of Great Britain. The way to circumvent some of those issues was to assemble scooters/cars/all sorts of things with 20% local content. In the case of Vespas, they arrived here as bodies and engines seperate from each other and no chassis number stamped in the frame. The 20% was obtained by the labour content, the locally produced wiring loom, locally produced seat, (actually comfortable I believe), locally produced Dunlop tyres and painted locally. The company that put them together was good at painting; they specialised in whiteware. You will see them referred to as Airco produced, a play on the name of the company being something like Eyre and Company Ltd.
Moderator
VNB VSC VBC VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 4800
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:39 pm quote
^^^Super interesting stuff about NZ Vespa imports. Thanks for the history lesson.

———

Today’s award in body work magic again goes to Mark. We uncovered another area of crazy bondo and found an old crease hiding in the leg shield. Mark was so zen about it and just patiently went after it with dolly and hammer implements. A huge thanks and hat tip. I basically held the bike and handed Mark tools for the afternoon, but learned a ton.

I may be a little further way from paint than I had hoped as I found another cross rail that needs welding... but still moving forward with the big assist from Poi Dog.

THANKS Mark!

1AC2E6FB-1C48-42EC-9F61-9F00201061FE.jpeg

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