Modern Vespa

The air filter in my Supertech (Oct/2019) is not like any photos or parts list that I've seen ...


air filter


Last edited by steelbytes on Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

It's part 1A007327





Last edited by Motovista on Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

Thanks

Interestingly all the parts websites say it's for the gts 125 & 150. SIP says it's incompatible with the HPE 🤔

Needs a new version of my airfilter mod .

lol

Am wondering if this filter type vs the sponge is better ...

The thing that inspired me to open the box today is that I have done a lot of country riding on gravel roads over the last several weeks and in the last 1-2(?) weeks I've felt that there's been a power drop. Maybe I've just got used to the higher speeds and it's all perception, or maybe the air filter or spark plug or something is bit iffy?

Was gonna book it in for a service very soon (1-2 weeks) so was just investigating / pondering before then

If the filter is so dirty it means that it has done its duty very well, imagine the dirty one in the engine.
It is also a warning to everyone to disassemble it even before its change and check if it is appropriate to do maintenance first.
And also check the levels, not all of them do.

is mine dirty? I don't know how a 'slightly used' looks or how a 'very dirty' looks. I have no experience of how filters (of either type) should look after different usage amounts

Excuse me but you made me laugh ... I state that I attend two large motorcycle / scooter service workshops for passion and because they are owned by two friends (from whom I have been buying my vehicles for more than twenty years) and I happen to see when they disassemble the pieces for assistance ...
The filters ... if you could see how clean they are (compared to yours) ..! But also a little dirty but ... I showed the photo of your filter to the service mechanic and he was stunned; he says he doesn't want to be a mechanic in Australia, too much work.

lol, thanks. looking forward to a service soon (and new tires as my rear is down to the wear indicators, and my new suspension which I ordered)

Yes, however, remember that the components of a vehicle can always be improved; it all depends on how much the owner is willing to spend. The good thing about the Vespa is that it has thousands of opportunities available on the accessories and spare parts market, if you keep it well it will last many years. Just think that here in Italy the first models of modern Vespa GT 200 are still running, which at 80,000 km I saw with the engine open only to replace the cam chain because it was elongated by use (an operation that an authorized workshop does in four hours).

There's a part number on your filter. What is it?

Zooming in on the photo* 1A007327. same


* original photo, the forum upload maybe lower image quality

Infact the whole air box and intake is completely different, it has a snorkel like on a 4x4 which opens at the front of the seat where the hinge is (see 20 on the attached pic). I had assumed this was the case for all HPE but seems to be just the APAC

It's exactly like the Vespa GTS 125 4T 3V iGet ABS E3 2018 see below.

https://www.parts-piaggio.com/vespa-scooters/125-VESPA-SCOOTER/GTS/2018/Vespa-GTS-Super-125-4T-3V-iGet-ABS-E3/Engine/Air-filter/1319/0/1012/2900


air filter

then I'm guessing that's the correct filter for that air box. SIP's information is mainly for the European market.

yes, I understand that. my pondering is more about the pros and cons of the two different air box & filter styles. And also why Piaggio fits a different air box in Asia vs Europe.

It does make sense if you consider the difference between European road and Asian/Oceania roads..

The foam filter works well when oiled, but it does require more frequent washes/changes than the paper filter. If you take a paper filter out and actually open it, you quickly realise that the paper square surface is huge compare to the foam filter size. Paper does filter much better than foam and to tell you the truth here in Australia most people (that do travel a lot) tend to install a foam filter to actually protect the OEM paper filter (more expensive)

For this part of the world, paper filter is a better choice over foam filters..
Ok, they cost a bit more, but they last longer and give your engine a much better protection from sand, dust and dirt..

It also does make sense for the production company to have to export only one kind of air box and one kind of air filter for the entire range of vehicles

hmm, I'm seriously considering putting a spare face mask (surgical type) over the opening of the 'snorkel' when riding on gravel roads (frequently this summer when I've been 'escaping' the city for day trips).

I've ordered a couple of new filters (paper) as my mechanic used pressured air to blow it clear when it was serviced last week but didn't replace it. he didn't have one in stock I think or maybe just thought blow clear was adequate.

My mechanic did suggest I do something about the air intake for the transmission cover when riding on gravel as the transmission housing had a hell of a lot of dust in it. the existing foam ring under the black / front cover is pretty minimal ...

Well, you have the company Uni filter but I don't think they make one for the Vespa snorkel under the seat. A piece of sponge or like you mentioned a face mask could help, but remember that the more filters the air has to got through, the worse your engine performance will be. It is always a compromise..

Regarding the dust in the transmission... If dark in colour, that would be from the belt itself and not from outside. Quite standard. I wouldn't worry about that too much...

The odds are that Piaggio did not choose to share this information with members of this forum. Paper filters are more common on modern scooters. I can't think of another manufacturer who still uses foam air filters on street vehicles, so it's a bit surprising that they haven't changed over at least a decade ago.

I know my gts 300 from 2017 has a foam/sponge air filter that my mechanic almost never change insisting on cleaning it as enough.
Have to check if my HPE Racing Sixties has the more regular paper filter.
A bit worried by Burt37 comment regarding foam filtering less than paper. Climate in Israel is often humid and sandy... and we get the European models.

I didn't mean to worry anyone with my statement, as a foam filter properly oiled and cleaned regularly is still quite effective..
But foam filters have always been for performance engines where they often get rebuilt regularly.. They are also better in a wet environment, where if the water does reach a paper filter instead, it normally breaks into pieces, or it gets sucked in by the engine. That's why most motocross bikes use foam as they can deal with water and mud...

Plenty of references if you search online...

PS.

Your mechanic is wrong as foam filters also do deteriorate in time (especially when the vehicle is not used often), so yes they can be washed and reoiled several times, but eventually the foam becomes brittle or completely saturated by dust and required replacement..

the point of my questions have been around two things


Since piaggio initially started using this paper filter in gts 125/150 around 2016/17 (europe and asia) is it suitable for a HPE which would of course need more airflow? ie, did piaggio stick a filter in the gts 125 that can handle twice the required airflow and therefore can handle a 300? is the foam more or less restrictive. the answer to this is probably no enough difference to matter, but no one seems to know.


Also, also been wondering a little about the time period of clean / replace for the two types. yes this will vary by enviroment & riding but I am asking relative to each other.

You are presuming that the airfilter was designed for a 150cc engine, where actually they are designed with fuel consumption (stoich level) and noise emission in mind. I bet if you check the air filter box intake that uses the foam compared to the one you have the cubic capacity of air intake is the same.

The paper filter should be replaced as per manual scheduled interval services.

The foam filter should be wash and reoiled based on kind of usage and colour based upon inspection. Most foam filter are good for between 3-5000km. In a very dusty environment they should get cleaned daily.
Paper filter mileage vary based on the square surface size and engine size (anything from 10,000 to 40,000 km)

So to answer your question in relation to each other, if used in the same environment, you get double the mileage with the paper filter. Then again if you use a very thick foam or a higher density foam, the foam could go as far as the paper..

I always prefer the paper filter because it is more visible when and how dirty it is.

That is true if the foam is black, but is actually exactly the opposite especially when using red filters like the Malossi. Dirt always shows like brown/black when mixed with oil and very easy to see.

As far as paper filter, we (workshop) use the weight system.

You take a brand new filter and check the weight, then compare it to the used filter. Obviously they have to be the same brand and quality of paper. It is the only sure way to know how your paper filter is doing. It can look clean, but it doesn't mean it is. So we keep blasting them with air until the weight difference in minimal.

But as I previously mentioned, I honestly believe that the main reason for Piaggio to install all the models that come out of the Asians factories with the same paper filter, is to keep freight costs down.. Nothing more than that..

what sort of weight difference are we talking? ballpark

Any difference..

There is no ballpark figure. If the used filter is heavier than the new, it is dirty! The more dirty it is, the heavier will be.. Simple as that..

I don't know on the top of my head, the weight of a new Vespa air filter but for the sake of the exercise, lets say that a brand new OEM filter is around 350 grams. You would presume that if your filter is 700 grams (or double the OEM weight), is pretty dirty. Thing is, that the OEM paper filter is not that expensive to replace, so I wouldn't worry too much and just replace it at the regular scheduled intervals.. If you had a foam filter instead, then I would understand your concern, but you have a paper filter, so.. enjoy the ride..

am doing. the replacement arrived this morning 👍

Excellent..

Where did you purchase the filter if you don't mind me asking?

Wemoto.com.au Bought two to justify the postage and i get the feeling I'm going to be replacing frequently

Now if only my new tyres would arrive then i could go on a road trip. Pirelli Diablo before anyone asks

I just had a look at their website and it looks like they sell the HIFlo brand part N AH2826. If that is what you just bought, HiFlo are good OEM replacement filter and cheaper than OEM..
Mind you, I can't find that part number on the HiFlo catalogue, so I'm not sure..

Now I just had a look at your first post again..

The part inside the red is completely caked with oil and dirt therefore not filtering air any more at all. That would explain your drop in performance as you only had about half filter available of air intake..

You are right about replacing that filter more frequently as that is really bad (for a filter, not for the engine)

Now if you look inside the airbox (the part you have removed) there is a little rubber snorkle inside that make the fresh air going in at the bottom of the filter box instead of the top and to some extent, dropping noise level down a bit. You can remove that bit, and that will allows fresh air to get sucked in by the filter from the top and not just from the bottom (where your filter is very dirty).. You don't have to break anything to perform this little modification, and it may helps a bit to get the filter used a bit more uniformly. There will be no increase in performance what so ever..

Didn't see hiflo when searching by original part number, so bought original.

I assume you mean this bit (see pics). Will see if this is readily removable without cutting it when i stick the new one in in a day or two


1

2

Perhaps it took me to the wrong model when I went on the site..

Yes that's the one.. No need to cut anything other than a ziptie if memory serve me well.. Take your time, and you will see how easy it is to remove. That will allow a slight marginal better airflow to the filter...

One last thing..

If you look at part n.6 in the picture you posted, I do remove that at least once a month, and that allows a bit of oil to come out of the airbox..

It seems to be oil from the transmission, so it is normal to some extent, but if you take that little bit of oil out now and then, perhaps your air filter then will only have to deal with dust...

Also, I think you had the right idea of making a pre-filter (paper,foam) and putting it at the entrance of the airfilter near the seat hinge. That would allow you for a much quicker and simpler maintenance instead of having to open the airbox all the times... I may do the same on mine.. Is not a bad idea at all.. Just nothing too thick to compromise the airflow..

Last edited by Burt37 on Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:07 am; edited 1 time in total

Ah here I agree, large-scale savings are in first place for those who produce ...
Burt, if my mechanic (and maybe Greasy too) saw the filter in the photo they would run away screaming like in front of the "monster of the black lagoon".
And I add that when I change the one on my scooter at the expected distance, recommended by Yamaha, it is so clean (only slightly dirty) that I could resell it as a "used part".

If you saw the road we have on this part of the world (lots of them are still gravel, dirt or bulldust) that filter, is actually quite normal. That's why car's manufacturer use this country for testing of components of things like filters and suspension.. That's also the reason why Unifilter is so popular around here.. Air filter, suspension and shock absorber are a huge business here..

Not sure what the situation is in Italy with Piaggio, but on this part of the planet, not many parts on the Vespa are actually from Piaggio... The are saving a lot of money in freight..

Globalization...sigh.

Io do la colpa alla Piaggio!

La Vespa dovrebbe essere prodotta solo in Italia!

Oddio! Un altro italiano...siete in tanti qua fuori.
Sono daccordo con te, assolutamente..!
Ma ora si vogliono fare facili profitti a bassi costi, per non parlare di Fiat,Alfa Romeo e Lancia ( io compro solo Fiat) che hanno lo stesso problema.

Ma ero dell'impressione che Alfa Romeo e Lancia fossero sotto lo stesso cappello della Fiat..

Are they really that bad these days?