Verification of Services Being Done
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Member
2019 GTS 300 HPE Touring
Joined: 25 Dec 2019
Posts: 5
Location: Sacramento California
Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:12 am quote
Yesterday I had the belt break on my 2020 Vespa GTS 300 HPE, luckily I was on a city street going 15 mph and not on the freeway. My concern is that the belt only had 5,000 miles on it which is below the manufacturers recommended 6,000 mile replacement. This incident combined with others has me seriously questioning if any of the service work that I have paid for has ever been done. I say this for the following reasons:
1.) After the 4,000 miles my Vespa would have difficult time with acceleration and would almost die from a dead stop. Noticed the ASR system was malfunctioning. Took it to the dealer and they stated that the belt needs to be replaced. Had them replace the belt and the initial problem went away. However when I got the bike back the oil ad been over filled and I lost 5 miles off my maximum speed and the was a squeak upon acceleration from detad stop.
2.) Took the bike in at the 6,000 mile mark for the required service and to replace the rear tire, however due to the COVID-19 outbreak they had it for two months. When I got the bike back one again the oil was over filled by a substantial amount. I also noticed that none of the other fluids were topped off (brake, coolant) and upon further inspection near of the air filters were cleaned or replaced. Alengine n I inspected the engine I noticed that all of the original horse clamps were still there. This caused me to question if the valves had been checked.
I questioned the dealer about the over filling of the oil and the other fluids not being topped off. I was told that they estimate the amount of oil to put in when it is changed and that it can be difficult to get an accurate reading of the other fluid levels. The only time I ever estimate the amount of oil to use is when I'm topping it off because when I change it I know exactly how much oil to add. And it is real simple to check the fluid levels, just find a flat level surface and put the bike on it's center stand and wait a few minutes. Then when I asked about the hose clamps I was told that the tech did not have to lower the engine in order to check the valves. I didn't ask about the valves and I told them I would like to see how he checked the valves without lowering the engine or disconnecting any hoses. I have yet to see a YouTube video where the engine is not lowered. So at this point I don't believe any of the service work has been done on the bike. I don't believe the belt was changed at the 6,000 service like they said it was and I don't believe the recall work that should have been done on the brakes was. So how do I verify if any of the $2,000 in service work has ever been done?
Molto Verboso
2013 GTS300ie
Joined: 12 Dec 2017
Posts: 1216
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:25 am quote
In South Africa, you are entitled to receive back all parts that were replaced under the service rendered by the service provider. Obviously oil is not returned, but I always insist on getting the used belt so that I can examine it for wear. I also rinse the oil filter to detect any metal shavings as a warning of future problems.
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8481
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Thu Jan 28, 2021 7:01 pm quote
wait. wut? 2K in service work? did i miss something?

you broke a belt and had a big service done. how does that come out to 2G's?
Addicted
2018 GTS 300 Touring Rosso Vignola, 2020 BV 350 Matte Green, 1956 VL3
Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Posts: 878
Location: Herriman, Utah
Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:09 pm quote
Disturbing. I used all caps but MV wouldn’t let me shout.
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3221
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Fri Jan 29, 2021 3:22 am quote
This sounds rather suspicious to me. You need to have a frank conversation with them about this work. It seems to me they haven't done the work correctly and am still reeling from the $2,000 bill! Might be worth speaking with a proper Vespa scooter tech first and letting them look the bike over. It will cost you though so think carefully about which way to go. If your bike is still under warranty that should cover a belt break I'd say particularly as you have full service history. Once fixed, you need to take the bike to a 'proper' dealer who does a 'proper' job and doesn't overfill the oil. That in itself will impact the performance.
Member
2019 GTS 300 HPE Touring
Joined: 25 Dec 2019
Posts: 5
Location: Sacramento California
Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:26 pm quote
Service Costs
The $2,000 dollar price tag comes from the following services:
-600 miles service= $450
-Replacing the belt at 4,000 miles plus oil change= $657.00
-The 6,000 mile service= $800.00
-Replacing the rear tire= $198.00 (During the 6,000 mile service)
Unfortunately I have had a candid conversation and in spite of my concerns and the evidence to back them up they assure me that all work has been completed and done to the manufactures guidelines. Which not the case, I provided them with a list of 12 items that were not done according to the manufacture's service manual (Which I bought) and they still insisted it was done correctly. The real problem here is that they are the only place around the is certified to do the service work
Enthusiast
Vespa LX50
Joined: 30 Oct 2020
Posts: 60
Location: Honolulu
Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:25 pm quote
This is what the contemporary internet is for. Either you are full of it or trying to dox a legit repair shop or the "legit" repair shop is bending you over and having a great game of butt darts in your arse.

I am kinda new around here but both of these things are common where I've been.

Are you saying that in the state capitol there is only one place to get your scooter serviced? That is sad...

Oh and never be shy about asking for every single part back when you pay anyone to work on your stuff. I always say that I like mechanical stuff, just to check it out and I like to make art projects out of them.
Member
GTS hpe 2020
Joined: 08 Aug 2020
Posts: 34
Location: Northern California
Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:41 pm quote
I live in Sierra foothills. The Sacramento dealer is much more convenient for me but I bought my 2020 hpe from Revolution Moto in Santa Rosa. IMO that dealer had much more knowledge of the product. I have also seen good reviews of the dealer in Oakland. Suggest you consider one of them for your future service needs -- yes it is inconvenient but again IMO worth the extra effort.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 21712
Location: Harriman, Tennessee, Tn
Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:42 pm quote
Re: Service Costs
badblackbishop wrote:
The $2,000 dollar price tag comes from the following services:
-600 miles service= $450
-Replacing the belt at 4,000 miles plus oil change= $657.00
-The 6,000 mile service= $800.00
-Replacing the rear tire= $198.00 (During the 6,000 mile service)
Unfortunately I have had a candid conversation and in spite of my concerns and the evidence to back them up they assure me that all work has been completed and done to the manufactures guidelines. Which not the case, I provided them with a list of 12 items that were not done according to the manufacture's service manual (Which I bought) and they still insisted it was done correctly. The real problem here is that they are the only place around the is certified to do the service work
wow wow wow, IMO that dealer is way way way over charging ,
600 mile service is an oil change and inspection, oil and filter your looking at $30 tops and 1.5 hrs MAX or time to include end to end inspection, really should be no more than 1 hour.
rear tire replacement is a 1 hour job with the cost of a tire of $60-70.

A valve check adjustment is not due till 12k miles
Enthusiast
2012 GTS 300 Super
Joined: 16 Dec 2020
Posts: 68
Location: Tigard, OR
Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:18 pm quote
Personally I would go directly to the owner of the dealership, review the services performed, and ask if he/she sees anything funny. Give the owner a chance to un-F your situation. If he says it all looks good then call him on the carpet (demand accountability) and a partial refund. Then seriously consider either taking it to a different shop for service or learn for yourself. They wonder why they get a bad reputation. Geez. FYI, I’ve had more work done on a Ducati race bike for less money!
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8481
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:53 pm quote
Re: Service Costs
badblackbishop wrote:
The $2,000 dollar price tag comes from the following services:
-600 miles service= $450
woo. that's some dough. maybe something closer to half that or a little less
Quote:
-Replacing the belt at 4,000 miles plus oil change= $657.00
seems a little early for a belt, but definitely way over for that. let's stretch it and say 3hrs plus parts, you're still under $500
Quote:
-The 6,000 mile service= $800.00
jeezus. that's absurd. what in TF did they do? i mean, you *just* had a belt done. what else would you need besides an oil change and safety check?
Quote:
Replacing the rear tire= $198.00 (During the 6,000 mile service)
that's about rate at a shop. so, no bigs there.
Quote:
The real problem here is that they are the only place around the is certified to do the service work
i'll bet you dollars to donuts that there's a qualified, quality wrench in your area. look for an indy they might meet your expectations a little better and will probably be cheaper.

-g
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 39324
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:55 pm quote
Re: Service Costs
badblackbishop wrote:
The $2,000 dollar price tag comes from the following services:
-600 miles service= $450
-Replacing the belt at 4,000 miles plus oil change= $657.00
-The 6,000 mile service= $800.00
-Replacing the rear tire= $198.00 (During the 6,000 mile service)
Unfortunately I have had a candid conversation and in spite of my concerns and the evidence to back them up they assure me that all work has been completed and done to the manufactures guidelines. Which not the case, I provided them with a list of 12 items that were not done according to the manufacture's service manual (Which I bought) and they still insisted it was done correctly. The real problem here is that they are the only place around the is certified to do the service work
You have been Right Royally Shafted.
Hooked
2020 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: 27 Sep 2019
Posts: 300
Location: San Francisco
Sat Jan 30, 2021 11:18 pm quote
I think I paid about $225 for my 625 mile service at Rev Moto.

I know they do pickup and delivery in the Bay Area; not sure if they go east as well. I like the mechanic there; you can tell he knows what he's doing by the way he explains things.
Addicted
GTS 300ie Touring - Signora D'argento
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 691
Location: Limassol, Cyprus
Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:48 am quote
If I was the OP, I would be straight back to the dealer armed with a copy of this thread to substantiate my claim at being overcharged. At the very least he needs a full breakdown of labour and parts costs.
Addicted
2007 GT200, 2008 Yamaha C3
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 690
Location: Denver
Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:17 am quote
Do they wear a rubber glove while they are doing this to you? Holy crap! Divide all that by the miles travelled, you could Uber for cheaper.
Hooked
2020 GTS 300 HPE
Joined: 27 Sep 2019
Posts: 300
Location: San Francisco
Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:16 am quote
You may also want to contact the Bureau of Automotive Repair.
Hooked
SilverWing 600-- 4nprevious Vespa
Joined: 13 Oct 2010
Posts: 443
Location: chattanooga tn
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:03 am quote
Learn to do it yourslelf
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 8481
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Jan 31, 2021 11:21 am quote
mayorofnow wrote:
You may also want to contact the Bureau of Automotive Repair.
BAR ain’t gonna do shit. What are you gonna say? They gave me a price and i agreed to pay that price.

Same with the dealer. They’re gonna tell you to pound sand.

Dude got the smoke show. Learn from it and move on.

-g
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 9642
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:00 pm quote
Abner_Bjorn wrote:
Do they wear a rubber glove while they are doing this to you?
I'm just hoping there was K-Y involved.
Hooked
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 470
Location: Norfolk, VA
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:07 pm quote
So the $2000 service cost was spread out over a 6,000 mile time span? Okay, so your'e paying someone else to do the services. Do the simple ones yourself to offset the cost if you don't wanna pay it and make sure its done right. My dealer will go over everything with you before returning it after a service, so you see the oil is correct and other "show me" things were done. And they do offer to let you see the old parts if there's any questions.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 11609
Location: Oregon City, OR
Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:25 pm quote
sc00ter wrote:
Do the simple ones yourself to offset the cost if you don't wanna pay it and make sure its done right.
The problem is that this was a story about someone who did choose to pay a dealer so the jobs were "done right" - but they weren't.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6331
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:01 pm quote
It's threads like this that make me revisit the idea of bringing anything to anyone else to work on.

Yeah, I have trust issues....
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6536
Location: NWAOK
Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:01 pm quote
In a lot of places, they tell you up front what the cost of a first service is, so the OP might have known that's what it would cost when he bought the bike. There is usually supposed to be a whole slew of inspections done, but if everything seems okay, the oil is sometimes changed, and the bike parked in service for a couple of hours.
So what doesn't make sense is that the belt was replaced at 4K miles and broke after 5000 miles. That's a total of 9K miles, not 6.
If the first belt wore prematurely, there was more than likely an issue in the rear pulley system, usually because in Asia they act like grease has gold dust in it and use as little as possible. If the belt broke, the rear pulley assembly should have been taken apart, cleaned out, and greased like crazy. If they opened the transmission up, blew it out and stuck another belt in, they didn't fix the problem. Belts are not covered under warranty.
Most dealerships that sell motorcycles have techs who got into the business because they want to work on motorcycles, and they really don't want to learn how to fix a scooter, so the service manager has a hard enough time getting them to keep from scratching the crap out of it. You will have techs who can replace the variator, clutch and belt on an ATV after it's been buried in four feet of mud who will get glassy eyed when they see a scooter on the work order and try to hand it off.
The odds are that the tech got it in, fixed the obvious without addressing the reason it needed fixing, and sent it back out. If you find someone who will open the case, remove, clean and service the variator and entire rear pulley assembly, your problems will probably stay away.

Last edited by Motovista on Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
Veni, Vidi, Posti
MP3 500, GTS 250 (both 2008 MY), 2012 Honda NC700 DCT, 2014 Can Am Spyder RT
Joined: 02 Mar 2013
Posts: 6331
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:03 pm quote
Motovista wrote:
So what doesn't make sense is that the belt was replaced at 4K miles and broke after 5000 miles. That's a total of 9K miles, not 6.
I don't recall the OP ever stating how many miles are actually on the scooter.
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6536
Location: NWAOK
Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:06 pm quote
Re-reading, you are correct. But it appears the belt was changed at 4K miles and at the 6K service. So there have been three belts in that bike. Assuming it does have 11K miles on it, that's quite a few.
One thing people tend to forget when challenging work done is that the auto repair industry is regulated, and if you have an disgruntled tech who leaves and then claims a lot of work wasn't actually done, it would be investigated. There are too many people involved with no motivation to keep a secret, that would have to, if they were to get away with charging for work that wasn't done. No Dealer Principal is going to risk his franchise, and no service manger his job, over a belt.
Member
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 38
Location: Oregon
Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:10 pm quote
+1 on switching shops if you can make that work. Even with the HPE maintenance schedule service isn't -that- frequent and you might be able to find a local indy scoot or moto shop to handle the basics if you are not inclined, oil changes and such, any bike shop should be able to do that esp if you're clear about your instructions (this type of oil, dipstick should look like this when you're done, etc.). Plus you might be able to develop a relationship with a good shop which is invaluable. Then when you need that bigger maintenance done transport the scoot to a place you like or someone here recommends. Hassle yes but beats wondering if any work is getting done on your machine.

I doubt you'll get any retroactive anything from your current shop (more power to ya if you do) but my guess it will just cost you more life moments.

All the best and hoping you are enjoying that scoot!
Hooked
2019 Piaggio Liberty 150
Joined: 20 Feb 2019
Posts: 470
Location: Norfolk, VA
Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:42 pm quote
I rebuilt the torque driver on my Liberty at 10,000 miles because I was in there. Plus I was curious as to why a rebuild/re grease was mentioned in he service manual. The assembly was so dry! I repacked the poo outta it with SuperLube as I've used it before with no issues. Grease is gold dust to the torque driver assemblers (good one Motovista!).

I would love to have a dealer do all my services but the dealer is just so far and parking is becoming a bear, so I do most of it myself now. And I've been stung before paying a dealer to service a scooter and find something wrong after getting it back. So I feel the OPs pain.
Ossessionato
2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs/asr/ess Settantesimo '70'
Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3221
Location: East Anglia, a dryer region of the UK than Israel
Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:59 pm quote
Re: Service Costs
old as dirt wrote:
badblackbishop wrote:
The $2,000 dollar price tag comes from the following services:
-600 miles service= $450
-Replacing the belt at 4,000 miles plus oil change= $657.00
-The 6,000 mile service= $800.00
-Replacing the rear tire= $198.00 (During the 6,000 mile service)
Unfortunately I have had a candid conversation and in spite of my concerns and the evidence to back them up they assure me that all work has been completed and done to the manufactures guidelines. Which not the case, I provided them with a list of 12 items that were not done according to the manufacture's service manual (Which I bought) and they still insisted it was done correctly. The real problem here is that they are the only place around the is certified to do the service work
wow wow wow, IMO that dealer is way way way over charging ,
600 mile service is an oil change and inspection, oil and filter your looking at $30 tops and 1.5 hrs MAX or time to include end to end inspection, really should be no more than 1 hour.
rear tire replacement is a 1 hour job with the cost of a tire of $60-70.

A valve check adjustment is not due till 12k miles
No...service items are different on the HPE. It needs a valve check at 6000 miles plus belt and roller change. So it is more expensive at that service interval than the previous GTS. However, it doesn't then need a 9000 mile transmission service which kinda levels the service costs. Overall is shouldn't be any more expensive, and is possibly less expensive to service than the previous model. It does sound as if the dealer has been over charging if what we are being told is correct.
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Granturismo 218
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 6536
Location: NWAOK
Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:44 pm quote
sc00ter wrote:
I rebuilt the torque driver on my Liberty at 10,000 miles because I was in there. Plus I was curious as to why a rebuild/re grease was mentioned in he service manual. The assembly was so dry! I repacked the poo outta it with SuperLube as I've used it before with no issues. Grease is gold dust to the torque driver assemblers (good one Motovista!).
The secondary fixed sheave, or whatever Piaggio calls it, (I'm using Yamaha speak, because I don't want to go look it up) has three holes for the pins and a fourth hole. That hole is for liberally squeezing grease into. When you buy this part for a Silverwing, Honda gives you two tubes of ptfe grease and tells you to put both of them in that hole. I think it's a total of about 30 ml. In their service manual they tell you to grease just about everything that doesn't touch the belt on that part of the clutch assembly. Most people I have seen service a clutch, myself included prior to seeing this, will maybe put a finger full of grease on the outer bearings, and call it a day.
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