Modern Vespa

Ginch, I actually had watched that guy's videos once before. They made a lot more sense to me this time, so maybe I'm learning a little bit.

I think that the real question for me right now is how much steel is going to be left once the rust is off the frame. If it's feasible to put a plate underneath like V oodoo and then just bolt the whole thing together, that might be a winning design for me.

Since it's a resto-mod, I can either work it into my aesthetic and/or add the extra bolts under the foot rails, so it won't even be visible unless you really know what you're looking at. Then, I can just fix the rot with good metal filler, don't even need to weld.

All of this is predicated on the assumption I can actually get a VIN. I'll be making my first run at bluffing my way through the DMV for that on Friday, assuming I can keep my schedule clear. I expect I'll need a couple tries, but I have to go down there to get Tennessee plates for the rest of my herd anyway, so that's fine.

I don't want to get too far into the process before that happens, though, so the bike will be looking thoroughly Barn Found if I need a cop to come inspect it (which I still expect I'll need to do).

I think it's less about "do they work?" and more about "how much of a mess do you want to make with blasting media?" since I don't know that many of us have a blasting cabinet.

Also, as I understand, it's pretty easy to blast away more than just the rust if you're not careful and/or don't know what you're doing (i.e. "me"). Not to say I might not try it, but I'll probably start with some phosphoric acid first.

At home blasting can get pretty messy. To do a frame, you need big yard and understanding neighbors.

Or neighbors you don't like

Speaking of neighbors, what happened with your 45 bullet?

if you are going to blast at home, check craigslist for a cheap 2-3man pup tent, contains mess considerably, and there is a chance of recovering some of your media to use again.

Nothing, other than getting the car fixed, but I didn't expect anything else. Unless someone had gotten picked up for Unlawful Discharge at the same time as my car got shot, there's no case even if they had a tie to a gun and shooter.

How about filling in the floor boards with lead? I know it's some substitute at this point, but it would be a metal filler.

I headed down to the DMV to see about getting a title today, and the Bill of Sale Only, based on the engine number, was not an issue.

What *was* an issue was the fact that the scooter was reported stolen in Florida at some point in its life, and then that flag has never been cleared.

So now I need to start back-tracking the provenance of the bike (Patrick bought it at the Amerivespa auction some years ago before passing it along to me) and find someone (probably the auctioneer, per the very nice woman at the DMV) who could remove the stolen flag from the VIN.

So now my options are to track back the provenance of the scooter to the Amerivespa auctioneer for the year Patrick picked it up and see if I can get them to clear it.

Barring that, I'm not quite sure what my next step is as of now...

Well... fuckstockings.

That’s no good.

Checking to see if I understand this correctly.

The Tennessee DMV was able to identify the scooters VIN using the engine S/N. I know Minnesota tracks both to make sure they match, I have to figure out what I want to do with mine since I have two motors I can use.

The engine serial number was reported stolen?

The VIN was ground off of the frame most likely when it was stolen?

Can you find out who or when it was reported stolen? Maybe follow up and see where that takes you?

Doesn’t the problem go away if you put a different motor in it?

Yup, you got it all correct. But things are taking turns for the better...

I PM'ed oopsclunkthud and he thinks he still has the original auction paperwork and is sending it to me, so I can go back to them and ask them to clear it. He did the initial tax paperwork at the time and it came up clean, but these systems clearly aren't perfect.

And since I had to go back to the DMV for another run at getting my wife's plates, I asked about getting a VIN & registration for it with no VIN, showed them my pictures of it as a basket case, and they had me sign a bunch of papers and gave me a plate, and will be issuing me a new VIN, but that process is a little bit murky, so I'd prefer to be covering all my bases, but things are looking up.

Sort've...but I still would like to have a VIN on the frame that doesn't come back stolen depending on what they DMV types into their computers.

Scooters should only be *ridden like* they're stolen.

Over the weekend, after I hung lights in the workshop I got back to work on the GL.

I spent some more time grinding on the frame to ascertain the state of rust and, other than one spot that will be under a rail, I think the floorboard is sound enough to use.

Now, I'm waiting for paperwork to work its way through the Tennessee DMV before I invest too much more into this project. That works out pretty well, though, because I'm not going to be able to make much progress for the next ten days or so, and by then I might even have a new VIN.

While that's going on, I tore down the fork yesterday. Now, I need to get it ready to prep and paint, which leads me to another line of questioning...paint.

Doing research (i.e. googling), I know that I want to go with a two-part paint process, but am struggling with sourcing. I want to do my fork and other painted trim parts in a black satin finish, so I assume that means that I need to buy (matte) black paint, and then coat it with a satin clear coat?

And where do people like to buy their paint from? I have my HVLP setup from doing the boat, just need paint & clear coat, but don't need to buy a gallon for the fork (obviously).

Also, how much paint does it take to paint a scooter? A quart?

So then the basic order for the fork, which won't get any filling/fairing is:
- Tear down
- Strip paint
- Clean up & de-grease
- Rust removal
- Clean up & de-grease
- sand
- mask non-painted areas
- final wipe down (MEK/Acetone, tack cloth)
- lay on base coat (2+ coats)
- top coat (2+ coats)
- Remove masking
- Let dry
- Profit!

For the body work, I'll be starting hammer & dolly adventures to get things straight next, then return to the surface prep after that.


legshield crease. One on each side.

How do you get a grinder around the brake pin?

crusty. Maybe too crusty.

progress.

I used a dremel with a small grinding attachment.

I guess I'm glad is not a very large area, then

If the only parts you're going to do in black are the fork, swing arm, and hub, Spray Max makes a nice, super durable 2K single stage satin black in a can. You won't need to put a clear over it, though you can if you want. For just a few parts, it's much easier and cheaper than buying black base and clear, plus hardener and reducer, mixing it up, setting up your spray gun and compressor, spraying, then having to tear down and clean everything.

A quart of clear and a quart of base will be plenty. Your local auto paint supply store should have everything you need. I'd recommend a 2K urethane. There are places to buy online too. If you want specific brand recommendations, pm me. Auto paint isn't cheap... the cost adds up with the hardeners, reducers... so be prepared for some sticker shock. There's a difference between brands and lot depends on how much you're willing to spend and how nice you want it to turn out.

Will be fun.

ooh...that's good advice on the paint for the fork, especially for the limited amount of coverage and the fact that other than the hub, it'll mostly be hidden behind other stuff like the shock & spring anyway.

It looks like I prime it with 368 0034 epoxy primer, then shoot the 2k over that and I'm good-to-go.

Getting back to thinking about paint...

The sticker shock is relatively mild, but I definitely have a little bit. I don't want to go too crazy on quality products since this is my first attempt at this level of work.

I'm kind've tempted to go with the Summit Racing house brands, if only because they lay out all the dependencies nicely, which for me would seem to mean (other than the temp ranges, which I'll figure out once I'm actually ready to go):
- primer & activator -- applied after I finish metal prep and filling/fairing
- high-build primer & activator (lay on, then sand down afterwards to clean up the final surface)

Are both primers necessary???

- base coat (paint), reducer, and hardener

- gloss or satin medium solids clearcoat & activator (per googling, while high solids give potentially better results, it's harder to lay down without orange peel, so as a newb I should probably go with the medium solids)

Does that sound about right? i.e. was my google-fu close?

A primer surfacer (the high build primer) is critical to use over any sort of body filler. If you don't use it, sand scratch swelling is all but a given.

whodats speaketh the truth. “Filler primer” fills in the (hopefully) slight sanding scratches and other surface imperfections that are left after you’re done shaping the filler. It’s then sanded with a finer grit. The whole bodywork and paint process is essentially one of applying progressively finer finishes.

While I haven't done that much actual work this week, other than a little bit of panel beating on the legshield (it actually looks better...go figure), vpfalcon has been making progress on the fork of his GL project and we've captured some good info over there.

I also went ahead and ordered a couple batches of parts from Scooter Center and SIP, because neither site had everything I needed. The seam on my front fender was pretty badly rusted and beat up around the fork opening, so I ordered a re-pop of that, along with new cowls since one of mine was gone entirely and the other one would need a bunch of welding. Repairing that will be my first welding project, once I get to that stage of my life.

On the bright side, I discovered there's a Makerspace in Nashville that offers welding classes & equipment about two miles and five to ten minutes from my house, so once the world improves a little bit more, I'll more-than-likely be joining it.

So...even though I didn't get that much "done," I still feel like I made progress this week.

OK...after a mild bit of sticker shock, all the paint is ordered. I'm going with gunmetal gray and a gloss clearcoat, so let's hope I don't hate it.

With the current state of shipping due to winter storms, nothing is going to show up for a while anyway.

I made a little bit of progress over the weekend.

The frame is as hammered as it's going to get on my watch, I think. So I cleaned it off good, then started on the stripping.

I tried both with & without a plastic bag on the front of the legshield just to see if it made a difference, and I have to say, if it did, I couldn't tell.

After an hour, I tried scraping with a putty knife and made minimal progress, but the wire wheel on my angle grinder took it off easily. It'll need some more wheel work before it's ready to prime, but things are moving forward.

The other thing I did was treat myself to a sonic cleaner. While I've only used it on two parts, the front hub and suspension arm, I think I'm going to like this thing.

Basically, wipe off the worst of the grease, throw it in the bath and set the timer, come back and the parts are super-clean.


Progress

Before

after

Before

After

I'm thinking I may keep the Legshield Badge un-repainted.

nice work!!! down to bare steel is always a nice milestone.

mind sharing info about your ultrasonic cleaner? I'm looking at adding one of these to the shop as well

CM1!
Man - you are going deep.
Just read this and can see the rods I failed to send to you lying on my desk next to my computer as I type. Doh!

Oh - and another thing.
While I am here spending your money - I would put a good word in for a welding table.
I have a fancy one on the way - but in the interim - I bought one of the Klutch ones.
$200 shipped to my door (they list for $400 but often are available at half that).
Really makes a difference to have a great surface to weld on when time comes to do components - though I know you are thinking more filling holes on a frame.
Comes with some clamps as well.
I'd put this on the xmas wish list as spectacular value vs what else is out there for that kind of money.

GL, I went back and forth a fair amount about the sonic cleaner. I had been considering it or a parts washer, but ultimately decided that the only things I'd probably ever use a parts washer for are things like engine cases, and we all know I just put my cases in the dishwasher when my wife isn't home, then lie about why the whole house smells like gasoline.

Size-wise, I decided I wanted one that was big enough to handle relatively blocky parts like carb's and wheel hubs, which pointed me toward a larger model. Mine was a 15L cleaner off Amazon and has all the hallmarks, including Engrish translations, but it gets the job done, even if, at $175, it was more than I really intended to spend.

I have it filled with about a 4:1 mix of water to Simple Green and that's what I used on the suspension arm. It has a heater with a thermostat, which takes probably 20 minutes to heat up, and a timer for how long you want it to run. It makes a noticeable, but not distracting, hum while it's running.

I took the hub, knocked the worst of the dirt off it and stuck it in the mix for 10 minutes, it came out looking better than I'd had any reason to expect.

The swing arm, though, still had lots of petrified grease on it, including gumming up the threads for the bearing cover that I'd been unable to get off with a casual cleaning. Threw it in the cleaner, did 15 minutes, turned it over (it didn't quite fit in the bath), gave it another fifteen minutes, and it came out looking great.

CM2, The rods will get here when they get here. It's all good

I'm still getting to welding, but it'll happen soon enough. Or, at the rate my projects seem to be moving, maybe that table *will* be the perfect Christmas present for me this year.

I'm hoping I can get the frame stripped and my paint booth assembled this weekend. One thing that I've been pondering is the best way to handle painting the frame. It seems a little big & awkward to hang, or at least it does with the lack of scrap lumber I have in the new workshop, so do people paint it (bottom first, I assume), then flip it over to paint the top?

My new cowls finally showed up in the US on Feb 24th and were supposed to arrive today, but are still stuck in customs, so who knows when they'll get them. I'd kind've like to shoot my paints all at the same time,

Oh, and on the floorboards, I found a recommendation in a couple vintage car restoration forums for a metal filler called Alvin Lab Metal which I laid on after treating with ospho and washing. It remains to be seen how well it'll hold up, but it's seriously hard stuff, and even after ospho, there were still only three holes, so I'm going with it and keeping the project rolling.

And final update, the State of Tennessee refused to grant me a new VIN (even though I was able to get a license plate for it), so now it's time to ping Patrick and see if he ever had a chance to look for the original auction paperwork so I can go chase those guys.

The progress feels good

I think I might try using the 2nd “vin number” stamped on the GL frame and get a registration from Vermont. I’m pretty sure that stamp is unique to your scooter and it might be worth a shot for $78 bucks.

The VIN from the motor was reported as stolen when I tried to register it at the TN DMV and the VIN on the frame is ground off. I'm guessing that the auction company didn't clear the VIN in the insurance sale as a result of it "not having" a VIN, but that's just speculation on my part.

Nice work!

(Seeing your clean, straight horncast makes me jealous!)


Looking forward to seeing more of your progress.

Can you run some wire or string to suspend the frame from like a ceiling or something? Wrap a string through the fork hole then out the little slice for the wiring and cables up front then through the holes under the seat for the rear?


edit: regarding the VIN issue, what about using the stamped numbers on the inside of the wheel well? Non engine side.

Now that you put it that way, I can totally do that...I'll hang it through the fork tube, which doesn't get painted anyway and be good-to-go.

That's why I love this forum...because if there's a solution to be had, someone will have it!

Thanks, Friday!

Hahaha. As if she didn't know.
Guess you could always smoke some weed in the house to try and cover up the gas smell?

Always an answer on this forum!

Waiting for customs clearance is its own special kind of Hell.

There's pretty much no way I'd be ready to starting spraying this weekend, but that's beside the point after three weeks of waiting for parts.

Best plan to stay out of harms way! Even if your partner gets pissed, you'll be stoned so.... you'll be chill

Not sure this is a great idea. Ask me how I know. Before you commit, try hanging it and blowing some alcohol or acetone on with your spray gun. You’ll see how unstable it is and how much it moves around. It’s like trying to hit a moving target unless it’s anchored at both ends. Plus if you hang it, it’s going to be hard to get a good angle on the back end and the inside areas under the tank. You’ll be scrunched down on your knees or lying on your back. Lots can go wrong.

I found it’s easier to prime the bottom and wheel well first, let that cure, then flip it and do the top. Repeat with basecoat. Repeat again with clear.

I guess it's a good thing I didn't go splash out $1.49 for an eyebolt, then.

Great point, Mike. I had been thinking to do the bottom, then flip it over, but was hoping I could get away with doing it in one shot by hanging it

Not the end of the world by any means and I'm glad you pointed it out before I was dealing with that and the frame swinging around while I had a gun full of paint.