Upgrading VBB ignition???
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Member
1964 VBB
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 27
Location: South Orange, NJ
Mon Feb 15, 2021 9:53 am quote
I've been in conversations with a few amazing Modern Vespa users who are helping me determine the best approach to upgrading my '64 VBB to an electronic ignition. below are my posts from another topic chain:

Hey all, I've started restoring a '64 VBB and have been told that an electronic ignition would be more reliable overall. I am unsure about what kit to use. I've been waiting for a restock of the kit below:
https://www.scooterworks.com/Tutti-Ricambi-Electronic-Ignition-Kit-LG-Frame-Vespa-2-Port-P14174.aspx?ItemId=14696

I am trying to keep as much of the vintage look as possible thus the coil example in the Tutti kit.

I've heard that the Vape kit needs modifications to the frame in order to mount the regulator. I'd love overall points of view. I feel like I am stuck in 'Analysis Paralysis'.
Thanks
Stoller

Electronic ignition for '64 VBB
Thanks Chandlerman.

Makes perfect sense. Just to be certain, which kit am i looking at?

http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Electronic-Ignition-Kits

Electronic ignition for '64 VBB
Good to hear MJ. I'm looking between Scooter Mercato and Scooterspeed.

Would this be the wiring loom I'd need?
http://scooter-speed.com/vespa-wiring-loom-ac-electronic-bgm-pro-a4-9077011/
Ossessionato
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 61 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 86 & 96 Elite 80s, 2015 HD Road Glide Special, 2011 Ural Tourist
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 3886
Location: Oceanside, CA
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:40 am quote
Back in January I literally had the same question. Nice folks on here helped me out so here’s my opportunity to pass it on. Take this with a grain of salt as 2 cents is about 2 cents more than my opinions are usually worth

I’d go with that BGM harness you picked out, use the included handlebar switch, buy this brake switch that “shutters”. The links below are just what I found easily. You buy from whoever you want to.

http://scooter-speed.com/vespa-brake-light-switch-shutter-pascoli-vbb-gs-rally-v4i-18163700/

And then the SIP Vape STATIC ignition kit.
http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Electronic-Ignition-Kits/510061RA_2

Lastly, the mounting hardware (which is NOT included from any vendor)
http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Electronic-Ignition-Kits/16484500

http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Electronic-Ignition-Kits/17910410

Then twice as many 12V bulbs as you need for whatever bulb holders you have. Youre guaranteed to blow one or two in the wiring process.

As far as the Tutti kit, electronic parts that are out of stock never easily come back in stock. Better to get something in stock with lots of spare parts than wait for something discontinued/ specialty.

I get keeping it looking vintage but if you do it right, you can easily hide the vape setup and the only person who will know is you. Check out Qascooters regulator he attached with shoe goo. Needed one extra ground wire but its hidden under the cowl, close to all the electronics for easy install, NO holes drilled and its very accessible for troubleshooting.

CFC2042A-393C-48F3-9685-BCA0412BDC2A.png

Member
1964 VBB
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 27
Location: South Orange, NJ
Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:48 am quote
Thanks MJ
Thanks for getting back to me and for the info. As I said in an earlier post, I was just informed that the Tutti EIK is back in stock, and the set up is pretty simple. I will ask about the mounting hardware as well as bulbs, although I only have the headlamp at the moment.
Member
VBA
Joined: 12 Mar 2018
Posts: 47
Location: Texas
Mon Feb 15, 2021 1:53 pm quote
Your original stator looks fine except that it needs a requires a re-wire. Scooterworks sells a kit for the P-series, but you may be able to call and ask if they can make one for VBB (they make them in house, but I am not sure). Takes a bit a patience and an afternoon.

Points can be very reliable and start first kick. That all said, if you are going to have to buy new everything might as well go CDI.

Wiring Harness:
BGM Harness 9077011 w/ handlebar switch is a good harness from what I have seen. I have a BGM stator and am very happy with it. Watch out for the 9077011U which is the same harness but without the switch (most places don’t carry it anyway). Link to harness with switch, cheaper than other link.
http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Wiring-Harness/9077011

Brake switch:
Alternate supplier for switch. It says out of stock, but I would call to see when they are getting them back in. Cheaper than the other link.
http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Switches/181637

CDI retrofit kit:
What is your goal of this part, look, reliability, or cost?
You mentioned you wanted the vintage look as much as possible. The problem I see with the Tutti kit is that support might be an issue. A search on this forum didn’t yield any results for this stator kit. So if you end up having issues other than general advice, very few may have experience with this particular kit. Not to mention replacement parts may be a struggle to find if SW discontinues selling Tutti products. The kit has a very “straight from India” feel to it, but I could be wrong. Or maybe you luck out and it is white label of a well-known brand. I do like the fact that the Tutti kit includes the harness, headlight switch, brake switch, mounting hardware, sparkplug wire, regulator with it. This begs the question though, how did they get the complete package priced down to ~$100 less than several competitors?

The SIP VAPE is a great kit and SIP has shown a long support life for their products. That awesome VAPE flywheel may be a bit too shiny for your “stock look” application. Another option is BGM BGM6661PRO kit. The BGM kit is based on OEM products like the blue Ducati CDI and Ducati based flywheel combined with BGM’s good stator’s. The Ducati CDI is what came factory on P series Vespas. If the Blue is too much color for you, you could always paint it black and no one would pay no mind to it. Giving you 2 links because Mercato says they are out, but again call.
https://www.casalambretta.us/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=2163
http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Flywheels/BGM-IGN-KIT-VLB

I'll muddy the waters more, I found the brown Bakelite style CDI on Mercato. Again, I do not see a known brand attached to this product.
http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Ignition-Coils/CDIvintagestyle

Good tips from MJ about the mounting hardware needed for some kits and the shutter switch. You will also need a solid core spark plug wire and cap with some of the kits mentioned. Don’t forget to buy a flywheel removal tool for your specific flywheel (if it is not included in your kit or you don’t have). For the bulbs you will most likely need AC for whatever kit you get. I got 5W and replaced with 10W if they blew, but not sure what the right thing to do was. a flywheel lock washer and new flywheel nut may not be a bad idea if your kit doesn't come with one.

FYI Your head lamp may only be 6V and not 12V.
Member
1964 VBB
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 27
Location: South Orange, NJ
Mon Feb 15, 2021 2:45 pm quote
You're all awesome
Thanks to you both. I have heard back that the Tutti EIK is entirely Indian made, so that makes me pause. I asked about the coil and they told me it's the same internals as the 199055 and that it's a P-series CDI, so maybe for aesthetics, I can replace the coil in the BGM EIK.
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3058
Location: Nashville
Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:15 pm quote
Not to confuse matters, but if you haven't rebuilt your motor yet, you can get a VBB crank with a P flywheel cone on it and then you can run any P-Series ignition. If you have, or don't want to mess with it, then...Never mind...

(I've taken to doing this on all my small-cone crank rebuilds just because it gives me more options and interchangability across my entire fleet)
Member
1964 VBB
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 27
Location: South Orange, NJ
Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:26 pm quote
Chandlerman
The engine has been rebuilt by the original person I had bought the Vespa from.
I’ve taken charge of the restoration now and as the stator is original, I just would like to convert to EIK.
So can I use an alternative cdi?
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3058
Location: Nashville
Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:37 pm quote
You just need to make sure that the electronic ignition that you pick fits the smaller cone on your crank.

Once upon a time, there was pretty much only one option from Bajaj and it was not a good kit. I just noticed that SIP carry it, but describe it as a "Grade D" repair, and even that's more credit than it deserves. Now, you can get a variety of solid options, whether a Ducati, the SIP Vape (my personal fave), or the sketchy Indian version.

you probably want static timing and 12V AC out (I assume you're running no battery and Incandescent lighting), so something like this on the high end or, if it were in stock, this option, which I can't speak to personally, but Scooter Center generally also do a good job on their house brand parts.
Member
1964 VBB
Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 27
Location: South Orange, NJ
Mon Feb 15, 2021 7:46 pm quote
Chandlerman,
As suggested above,
http://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Flywheels/BGM-IGN-KIT-VLB
That BGM kit was where I was likely headed, I just wondered if I can use the vintage looking Bakelite CDI in place of the one included.
East coast here, so I’ll pick this up tomorrow. Thanks for all your help
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3058
Location: Nashville
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:18 am quote
Yes, you could use the Bakelite CDI you have linked with the BGM kit.
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3058
Location: Nashville
Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:35 am quote
SIP have a Ducati-style Bakelite CDI, too.

So you have lots of options here.
Hooked
1958 Allstate Super Cruisaire 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 220
Location: Philadelphia
Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:31 am quote
That SIP one seems to be speed limited according to the only review on their site
Ossessionato
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella
Joined: 16 Jun 2011
Posts: 3058
Location: Nashville
Tue Feb 16, 2021 10:28 am quote
It's a 2-port motor in a VBB. If he hits the limiter on that CDI, it won't matter because he's already ridden it off a cliff.
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