Modern Vespa

I got my scooter very cheap from a seller who assured me it wasn't stolen he just didn't have paperwork. It has the original microchip key so stolen seems very unlikely. I have the Vin and the license plate with current registration but nothing else. Any recommendations on how to find the previous owner using this information? I'm hoping to contact them and offer them some money for helping me get the title. Is the dmv the only option for this or is there a 3rd party company/service that could have this info. I've tried googling but seem to find scam sites only.

A bonded title may be an option down the road but I'd prefer to start by trying to contact the previous owner.

What state are you in? What is the yr/make/model of the scooter?

Depending on the second question, you may be able to register the scooter in Vermont. You don't have to live here to do that and there are threads here on registering a scooter in VT. Do a search.

The scooter is a 2006 Vespa LX150. I did read about the Vermont thing, I assume the vin would be an issue. Since it was previously registered and titled in California once I have a Vermont title and then tried to convert it to a CA title I assume the vin would create a flag issue from the previous title?

Just go the 'duplicate title' route. This is quite a common problem, so a solution is available:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv-virtual-office/duplicate-title/

That requires the previous owners information, which I don't have.

VT does not issue a title for scooters/motorcycles less than 300cc. So you register it in VT for a year or two and then when transfering, you state VT does not title these and CA would have to create a title.

That doesn't address the previously titled in california problem, won't CA go "but there is already a title for this vin RED FLAG"

Is not the "seller" the "previous owner"? If they didn't have the paperwork when they sold the scooter to you, why do you think they would help you now? I would first call the CA DMV with the current registration and VIN and find out if it was reported stolen.

By previous owner I am referring to the previous documented owner.

You say above that you have the registration for the bike at the time of purchase. Why wouldn't that be the same information as on the title?

Interesting and also disturbing ...
Being a large state with small nations inside and different legislations between them can be complicated.
Our Italian regulation for the purchase / sale of vehicles provides for the immediate verification of the previous owner before proceeding with the passage of the plate (which follows the vehicle as if it were the vin) between the owners; possibly at the vehicle registration centers (or on the website) by paying about € 20 you can find out the chronological history including the presence of any financial mortgages.
A universally valid advice ... don't get caught up in a rush, evaluate every purchase you make.

According to the info below, as long as there isn't a lien on the scooter, you should be able to work with the previous owner for their signature (bill of sale?), fill out the appropriate forms and pay the various fees.

To transfer a title, you will always need:

Either the California Certificate of Title or an Application for Duplicate or

Transfer of Title (REG 227) (if the title is missing).

The signature(s) of seller(s) and lienholder (if any).
The signature(s) of buyer(s).

A transfer fee.

Depending on the type of transfer (see below for additional types), you might need to complete and submit additional forms (see the full list of transfer forms below).

Submit your title transfer paperwork and fee (if any) to a DMV office or by mail to:

DMV
PO Box 942869
Sacramento, CA 94269

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/vehicle-registration/titles/title-transfers-and-changes/#:~:text=When%20you're%20buying%20a,from%20DMV%20in%20the%20mail.&text=If%20you%20don't%20have,REG%20227)%20to%20transfer%20ownership.

I have the license plate with current registration STICKER. I don't have a registration card or anything, sorry that wasn't clear. Yes but in order to do that I would have to find the previous documented owner. Which is what i'm trying to do, but I have spoken with third party registration services and they said privacy laws do not allow them to give the information of the previous owner. I'm not sure if the DMV is different because I haven't gone yet for obvious reasons DMV reasons.

I guess this is where I am confused. Why do you need the previous owner? If the seller has a plate, registration and a bill of sale why can't you use this?

Or are you saying you have no way of contacting the seller?

The seller did not have any paperwork. The title was not in their name nor the registration. The seller said they had traded a friend for the scooter and received no paperwork. The plate on it is not registered to the seller though the sticker on the plate is current. So I have no contact and no idea who the documented owner is. Without that information I cannot do anything but a bonded title. THIS IS WHAT IM TRYING TO FIND OUT, a service or way to find the previous documented owner.

The plot thickens with every post. I guess I would see if the seller's 'friend' has info that can put you in touch with the pervious owner and work backwards. Or if you know anyone who can run a plate or VIN for you.

It really doesn't. My original post was pretty clear of the situation. The original seller said the person he traded for was just an acquaintance. So if we go wayyyy back to the first post. Same situation, I need a service that can search for documented owner by vin or license plate...

Yep, starting to sound a little bit shady here. So if I understand, you bought this from someone who had traded something for it from a friend but this person can't give you the friends contact info since they apparently were the owner of record when you bought this?

IMO, something is fishy in Denmark on this. Apologies to any Danes.

This is a pretty common problem, and it is nothing short of a pain in the neck to solve in any state. California is apparently extra-painful. Getting untitled scooters on the road legally can easily turn into way more trouble than they're worth, which is why conventional wisdom around here is to avoid them in the first place.

The fact is that without the title you know nothing about the scooter's provenance. A plate and a sticker could have come from anywhere. The person you got it from may not know either. Somebody along the chain of ownership did a previous owner a favor by taking undocumented possession of the scooter. Whether that favor was acting as a fence or simply covering up for the misplacement of proper documentation, nobody knows.

The person you got the scooter from was legally supposed to pay sales tax on the transaction, DMV fees, and get it retitled in his name. You did them a favor by taking that problem off their hands. The DMV doesn't like that and if you get it straightened out with them is going to assess you for some semblance of the revenue they feel they "lost." I think they make the owner pay the registration fees and penalties for all the time it wasn't officially registered. It isn't "fair" to you but the resulting diminished value that arises from a lack of documentation is an incentive for people to keep their vehicles properly documented.

That is why the Vermont loophole is so useful. I would recommend using it to buy yourself a few years of avoidance of a California reconciliation. Who knows how motivated anyone will be by that point to make that scoot a local Californian anyway.

EDIT: the answer to your question is that you, a civilian, cannot find DMV ownership records. You might be able to find something out if you have a friend who is a cop, but they are taking career risk if they give you somebody else's personal information like that.

Last edited by Juan_ORhea on Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total

A friend of ours bought an ancient camping trailer with the same 'problem'. The seller hadn't any paperwork, but could prove to my friend with photos that he'd had it in his possession for several decades.

The DMV was most obliging apparently - just a bill of sale and the 'duplicate title' form seemed to be required.

As was mentioned multiple times previously. The vermont idea will still be an issue when trying to title in California no? I would assume when walking into a california DMV with Vermont registration and asking for a california title and registration. Since the scooter was previously titled in california the VIN will throw a flag and not allow a new title to be made with the same VIN.

I guess another question, if all I want to do is drive it on the street. I dont actually need a title for that right? Could just get vermont to register it, might even be able to get california to register it as well and just not worry about the title?

Your assumption is incorrect. If you go the Vermont route, the scooter is legal by Vermont standards - registered and plated in Vermont, with no title. The process of then transferring it to California will probably flag that the scooter used to be titled in CA, but there is no forensic analysis done on the situation to identify the date it left California and in what condition its registration might have been at that point. It will get a new, proper, CA title and CA registration. Yes, this feels like title washing. Nobody seems to mind. I guess it is a good-enough way of flagging stolen VINs.

Not sure where you're getting the dual-state-registry idea. Vermont requires registration and does not require a title. California requires both. States have to respect each others' DMV rules.

Ha thats kinda a contradictory statement since in this situation vermont isn't respecting CAs titling rule. I would still assume CA will flag that coming into the state and say something missed here you need to contact previous owner etc etc. Which essentially negates any benefit from the vermont route.

The bummer is if I go the vermont route and your info turns out wrong thats a big waste of time and money.

Your dealer purchased a scooter without getting title? Stolen maybe?

Something just reminded me of why I previously stopped responding to your questions here and on FB.

You've received plenty of well-intentioned and generally relevant and accurate assistance here. Feel free to cross-check it and test your assumptions against the myriad of information on effed-up title situations and Vermont registration available here and elsewhere.

Yessh so sensitive! Well thinking it out, if my main goal is riding it on the street. And vermont will give me legal registration and a plate without a title. There is really no harm in doing that so I can ride. And then I can still go into the DMV with that registration and see what happens with ca issuing a title. It might not be a bad plan really.

it is actually pretty simple and painless. I just registered a motorcycle that i bought from another state without any paperwork.

Went to DMV, DMV gave me a phone number of a single officer who deals with this kinds of cases. They told me to call him and leave him a message. I called and I left him a brief message. About two weeks later I got a call back, officer told me to show up on this day at this time so he could inspect the bike. He spent about 2 seconds looking at the bike and went inside did his research/paperwork for about an hour. Come back out with a paper work, which i took to DMV and they sent me a new title.

Thats great, I think if this was an out of state scooter i'd have less concerns.

Also I might be a little more concerned as i've had some past experiences that were frustrating. Bought an out of state dirtbike WITH a title and all relevant paperwork. But then was told it was not allowed at all in california. They would not register or title it here and told me I had to take it out of state and sell it.

yeah, you didn't state all the facts from the jump. so don't get pissy when people are asking questions and trying to help you.

1- you need a bill of sale from whatever shady fucker you bought it from. so that's gonna be a 135 OR and 1.020 (but that requires a witness and notarization. depending on your situation, you may need THAT. either way you STILL NEED A MF'N BILL OF SALE

2- statement of facts. that's the 256 form. if you can get whoever the shady MF'r who sold it to you to fill one out as well, even better. but basically, you fill yours out: i bought this clapped out shit box from this crack head for next to nothing. i know nothing about it. he gave me a bill of sale. here's his info and my info. i have not operated on public streets, it has been sitting forever and a day and i bought it at a garage sale.

3-227 application for lost/dupe title. so you need the shit from up there ^^ to make the whole thing complete. it's a lot of filling out of redundant information. but that's the DMV and well, that on you for buying something without a title.

anyway, part of the process is a VIN inspection. now, if you're lucky that local branch of the DMV will just make you wait in a long ass line and do it there on site. if you're even luckier, you can go to a triple A office that does them (hint: not all do) and get it done there. otherwise you're at the mercy of CHP. so book an appointment and wait for that shit to materialize.

so then, after all that you give the nice person at the DMV your application for lost title, a statement of facts and the VIN verification. hand over a few gold dubloons and they send you a new title in a few weeks.

or you could pay about $300 and go thru a lien company and get it retagged to you. or reg it out of state and jump thru the same amount of hoops to bring it back on file.

easy peasy my man!

-g

i just straight up laughed so hard i snorted at this.

but, yup. so true.

-g

Not pissy, and thought i did state all the facts IE don't have anything and would like to get something. Anyways cheerio greasy spoon, I've got multiple options now. Slog the DMV like you mention, Go the vermont route, or let a 3rd party registration company deal with it for me. Quote I just got from a registration service was $50 + DMV fees but we'll see if that materializes as fact with them.

https://www.facebook.com/lokeeinvestmentsllc/

Its true haters are a funny bunch, so far things are progressing well despite the sensitive hater types.

hmmm... wonder why you were kicked out of the MV myfacegroupspace thing? the mind ponders.

anyway...

1- i gave you legit info and you comeback like a total asshat. so, good luck on ever getting another reply from me.

2- you're a nickel dick timewaster, a total cheap ass mother fucker. so, it's not like i'm working on your shit any time soon. once you've exhausted all of your options-- ie. wore out everybody around town and they don't wanna work on your shit no more and you're such a ding-dong you can't fix it yourself, good luck with your shit box of a bike.

3- you come off like a total fucking know it all dildo. and, guess what my man?
*cups hand over mouth and shouts*
NOOOO BBBOOODDDYYY LLLIIIKKESSS THATTTT

but i digress. you ask for help and then argue or disagree when given options. you did NOT provide all of the pertinent information [note: i am too lazy to go back and quote your bullshittery] and your grasp of knowledge, let alone the English language is shaky at best.

in summation: pound sand up your dick sideways, kick some rocks, get bent, feel free to eat an extra large bag of regular sized dicks or a regular sized bag of extra large dicks. you're a pest in the best possible scenario, a total know nothing moron and frankly not worth anybody's time in the best.

with all my love,
-greasy

LOL Right. Thanks for the tip on the tire that doesn't fit btw. I learned not to trust your input quickly anyways.

Sometimes we just have to let things run their course...

give your balls a tug there chachi

but you know what, it's all good baby boy. i'm sure you're aware that every manufacturer kind of adheres to, like, their own idea of "size" right? i mean, take a michelin S38 3.50x10 and compare that to a pirelli SL26 3.50x10 en"tire"lly different.

pun intended.

point is i've been in this business for 20 years. i've installed that size tire on that type of scooter. you ordered some cheap ass shit that didn't fit. sucks to be you. people gave you options and your penny pinching ass went cheap and got burned.

(again, you're a cheap ass)

we ALL told you not to reinvent the wheel and you tried to forge your own path and got smoked. what, you think this hadn't been asked and answered already? and also, making like 5 different threads on a topic that nobody gives a shit about? c'mon son. get a grip. keep that shit to one.

and now you come asking for help with your title, which. wtf? that should be a slam dunk. i buy this from you, you give me a title. duhhhh

but you were a ding-dong and didn't get one, and you ask for help and people give you options but then you act like a total know it all dildo. then, THEN you get all butt-hurt when somebody says some shit you don't like.

anyway, no mas tips or suggestions from my end. besides the fact that you don't appreciate them, listen to anything or take something under consideration you also come off like a right fucking prick. enjoy your shitty "off road vespa" hope you spend a bundle getting tagged and titled in your name. also glad you got smoked on trying to bring in an out of state dirtbike. idiot.

(whispers quietly: there's a reason they're not for sale here, moron)

love and kissses,

your very very best friend, greasy.

jim, you want the over or the under on: fuck all you guys you're a bunch of jerks and i'm out of here post?

betting line starts at 4

Its weird. I really don't know what your problem is? This thread was going pretty smooth till you decided to join.

I'm a cheap ass because I found a bottom dollar vespa that didn't run and was kinda beat up and jumped on it? Is that supposed to like hurt my feelings or something? The tires I bought were maxxis, you know the ones I specifically mentioned in that thread. I guess thats a cheap ass brand though I wasn't aware.

You all told me not to reinvent the wheel, and I'm doing it anyways (I guess?). And the problem is what again? I'm a cheap ass remember, so this is just a fun toy to play with and hey i'm learning abit about CVT's which sooner or later will help for other toys i'm sure. As you well know I plan to ride this thing off road primarily, its a toy. So theres not exactly much potential for "getting smoked" as you love to say. I'll play with it till I break it and then toss it out, or if I end up getting a title and can ride it on the road that will just add a little fun, and if it doesn't get broke maybe I can make a little money when its time to sell the battle scooter!

I'm not sure how expressing concerns is arguing or acting like a know it all. Do questions typically come from know it alls? I guess so in your world.

Not sure what you are talking about with dirtbikes not being sold here, thats kinda a mind blowing statement. And I didn't get smoked for the record, I made money on that bike after riding it for 2 years with an out of state tag. But i'm a dip shit cheap ass moron so what do I know.

I'm also a bit confused with the "starting multiple threads" So on MOST groups thats how it works. New topic/issue/idea new thread. Is that not how you roll here? Am I just supposed to post once and hope people stay engaged for any different topic that comes up in that thread? Maybe this is the only place on the internet thats how it works, i'm not sure.

Again i'm not shitty or pissy, I did express repeating myself a few times but not like I cussed someone out or called them names (that was you).

I'm sure in the Vespa world you are king spoon and all. Thats great for you, you carved out a little niche to live in, high five. But when someone brushes up against your world in a way you don't like no need to be an asshole about it. Just, you know. Skip on by running that comb through your hair and live your life. Is there a way for you to block or ignore me? I think that would be best for your sanity because I clearly really really bother you.

i'd love to quote all of this but instead, here's an emoji of me jerking off.

you were given correct and pertinent information and decided to wave all that off.

i SPECIFICALLY gave you the form numbers AND advice of what you would need. but you continued to be a little argumentative shit bird. so fuck the fuck off on that.

but it's cool man. you go do you.

you are and will always remain a total freekin' ding-dong to me. so if you drown in the tub it wouldn't be much a shock to me.

enjoy your bike, i really hope you get it registered for the street. or, like at least get a title so, that, you know, you own it. please wear a helmet and don't kill yourself while doing some asinine shit. enjoy life and bask in the understanding that everybody around is not only more intelligent that you are, but also pities you.

xoxo

-g

Lol bro, thats an option. I specifically mentioned that as one of my 3 options. Why are you SO OFFENDED, that I didn't just say GOD DAMN MONKEY YOU FUCKING NAILED IT! I think you must have had a rough week at the vespa shop or something, drop that 10mm under the toilet again?

I'm glad we have equal views of each other. Its kinda symbiotic.