2009 MP3 500ie resurrection
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Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:02 am quote
Hi all, 1st post for me on Modern Vespa. Great site that I've used a bunch already. I just recently inherited a 2001 ET4 150 (w/317mi) and a 2009 MP3 500ie (w/107mi). Both scoots have been sitting for at least 10 years. I was able to get the ET4 road worthy, but the MP3 is proving to be a much more temperamental beast. I have read sooo much on this thing and much of it has helped but I am at a scratch-your-head stand still with this project unless someone can recommend a next step that makes a difference.

The issue: Starts but will not stay running for more than 10-30 sec. Just dies/stalls out.

Originally would not start.

What I have done:

    New battery, ytx14.
    New premium gas.
    New oil.
    New oil filter.
    Determined that the fuel pump was dead (at 107 miles). Dropped tank and replaced with Kesmo 13001 FP. Was able to blow through existing fuel filter. Reassembled.
    Checked all fuses, ok. However the one at the coil(?) needed cleaning.
    Tested relays as in the service guide, ok. Also swapped them around to see if that would make a difference, nope.
    Burped gas line of air by disconnecting the gas line at the injector.
    Cleaned throttle body with tb cleaner. Looked pretty clean to begin with.

Thinking spark plugs are the next to replace, even though they are virtually brand new(?).

Steering/suspension lock is not working, but is off. If I try to turn it on it just beeps at me and flashes a red light on dash. Immobilizer system is working fine but turns off as it's supposed to when key is turned to on.

Is there another system that isn't passing some diagnostic test and cutting the bike off?

Any advice on how to proceed, other than taking it to a shop, from here would be most appreciated.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 39463
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:08 am quote
That sounds like the throttle body bypass is clogged - old gas residue? See:
https://cheekythoma3.wixsite.com/itsme/idle
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:33 am quote
jimc wrote:
That sounds like the throttle body bypass is clogged - old gas residue? See:
https://cheekythoma3.wixsite.com/itsme/idle
Thank you. Good read. Will pursue cleaning the throttle body again this time I'm going to pull it off the bike like I would a carb.
It did go from running rough and blubbering to much smoother and even through this process.
I'll post the results later.
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4264
Location: Netherlands Olst
Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:48 pm quote
and a ytx14 is to light its 12 amps it needs to be a ytx16bs 14amp or better a Mtx16bs motbatt 16amp 19amph
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:45 pm quote
I cleaned it out quite thoroughly. The bypass plunger doesn't seem to want to move. Not sure if in closed or open position here.

View from front of tb:


View from back of tb:
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:50 pm quote
Maksor wrote:
and a ytx14 is to light its 12 amps it needs to be a ytx16bs 14amp or better a Mtx16bs motbatt 16amp 19amph
Could that really be the reason for poor idle or stalling? You would think that once started the system would draw power from a stator-like thing rather than the battery. I could not find the oem requirements so I went what the battery mfg. said was supported.
That said, if I need to get a 16 to get it to run right then a 16 it is.
Hooked
BV250, BV500
Joined: 10 Mar 2018
Posts: 116
Location: SFBay
Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:00 am quote
I think there was a slow speed stalling issue with that era MP3 500. I had a 2008 and the ECU needed a reflash at the dealer, for the same reason. Mine started and ran, but it would stall at every stop unless I revved it against the brakes. They charged me a King's ransom for it, but afterwards it started and ran MUCH better.
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:09 pm quote
Ok, new MBTX16U motobatt battery installed.

Same issue.

Starts and runs at 2k rpm then idle starts to drop and shortly after cuts out/stalls.

I plan on getting the ECU flash at a dealer, but my closest is in Portland. I need to touch base with them.

If there any other things I should do or check that haven't been suggested so far please let me know.
Addicted
GTS 300ie Touring - Signora D'argento
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 752
Location: Limassol, Cyprus
Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:52 am quote
Have you disconnected the fuel injector to see if it is producing a good spray of fuel, or have you tried adding fuel injector cleaner to the fuel tank?
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Tue Mar 16, 2021 9:07 am quote
Touring300 wrote:
Have you disconnected the fuel injector to see if it is producing a good spray of fuel, or have you tried adding fuel injector cleaner to the fuel tank?
I have disconnected the hose that goes to the injector to "burp" the line. Got good flow when I turned the key to on.
No cleaner or cleaning done to the injector itself. I think it's getting gas just fine at this point. The issue happens when the bike revs down to a normal operating idle.

I'm wondering if it is safe to disassemble the throttle body assembly to make sure all parts are moving as intended. I think that the bypass might be stuck closed, but I am unfamiliar with what the thing is supposed to look like to begin with. I was hoping that someone with that granular knowledge might be on here.

Vid of it in "action".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf7vK7cW_oE



Last edited by pnwrider on Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Addicted
GTS 300ie Touring - Signora D'argento
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 752
Location: Limassol, Cyprus
Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:34 am quote
It sounds like an ECU update is going to be your fix. I have a GTS with an intermittent stalling issue when slowing down to a stop. I've been told an ECU update should fix it, but I'm going to wait until I return back to the UK in a couple of months time as I don't know anyone with a PADS diagnostics in Cyprus.

Can you post the URL for the video clip? Many Web browsers (including mine) will only play the clips unless there is a link to click on. I think if you amend your post by clicking the 'URL' tab, cut and paste the video link address, then click the 'URL' tab again, we will all be able to see it.
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:13 am quote
Touring300 wrote:
Can you post the URL for the video clip? Many Web browsers (including mine) will only play the clips unless there is a link to click on. I think if you amend your post by clicking the 'URL' tab, cut and paste the video link address, then click the 'URL' tab again, we will all be able to see it.
Yes!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf7vK7cW_oE
Hooked
BV250, BV500
Joined: 10 Mar 2018
Posts: 116
Location: SFBay
Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:22 pm quote
When you talk to the Portland dealership ask them to check the history of your scooter. If you give them the VIN number they may be able to tell whether the updates have all been done or not. No point in making the ride up there and paying money for something that's already been done.
Addicted
GTS 300ie Touring - Signora D'argento
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 752
Location: Limassol, Cyprus
Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:48 am quote
Thanks for fixing the video link.

You haven't mentioned the air filter. Have you checked it for debris or for over oiling?
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:47 pm quote
Touring300 wrote:
Thanks for fixing the video link.

You haven't mentioned the air filter. Have you checked it for debris or for over oiling?
Air filter was checked and was clear and not over oiled. Also same symptoms with stalling at idle without air filter hooked up.
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:48 pm quote
wentwest wrote:
When you talk to the Portland dealership ask them to check the history of your scooter. If you give them the VIN number they may be able to tell whether the updates have all been done or not. No point in making the ride up there and paying money for something that's already been done.
Good point, will do.
Ossessionato
2020 MP3 Sport 500 HPE ABS ASR
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 4170
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles sobre el Río Porciúncula
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:42 pm quote
wentwest wrote:
I think there was a slow speed stalling issue with that era MP3 500. I had a 2008 and the ECU needed a reflash at the dealer, for the same reason. Mine started and ran, but it would stall at every stop unless I revved it against the brakes. They charged me a King's ransom for it, but afterwards it started and ran MUCH better.
When I had this problem on my 400 (twice) it was the throttle body, which needed cleaning.
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:25 am quote
I wish I could find more info or pics on a healthy throttle body.
Member
Piaggio Beverly Tourer 400
Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Posts: 22
Location: Pistoia, Tuscany - Italy
Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:27 am quote
Probably you need to clean the throttle body, in addition to the throttle valve there is a little duct where the air necessary to regulate the minumum level of rpm is regulated by a little step by step motor, if this duct is dirty by oil or sludge deposit it's necessary to clean the duct, in this way after it was clean the level of minimum is too high
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Mon Mar 22, 2021 10:53 am quote
lele73 wrote:
Probably you need to clean the throttle body, in addition to the throttle valve there is a little duct where the air necessary to regulate the minumum level of rpm is regulated by a little step by step motor, if this duct is dirty by oil or sludge deposit it's necessary to clean the duct, in this way after it was clean the level of minimum is too high
I cleaned the throttle body twice including the bypass duct, thoroughly. It was practically spotless to begin with. The scoot has just over 100 miles on it. The pictures above in the thread are of that duct. Either the duct is being mechanically blocked because it's frozen or the step motor is not working correctly or both. But as I've said I have no basis for comparison and that's conjecture. I've thought about taking the throttle body completely apart to make sure things can move, but I'm not sure if that's a good idea.

I need a TB specialist.
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:13 pm quote
You'll laugh you'll cry...at least I am
So before attempting to take the TB apart I filmed what is happening.

https://youtu.be/aIW__mbsAH0

So, yeah after this I started disassembly and of course one of the throttle flap screws stripped.
I've already drilled through the screw. Now I get to buy a screw extractor and a new screw to add to the this project!


I normally just jump into taking things apart and putting them back together...and it works out 95% of the time. Sometimes I get curve balls.

What a pain in the
Ossessionato
Gilera Fuoco 500ie
Joined: 11 Oct 2009
Posts: 4264
Location: Netherlands Olst
Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:33 am quote
It sounds like you got a leak some where air is leaking at the manifold (black rubber pipe) or injector
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:35 pm quote
Maksor wrote:
It sounds like you got a leak some where air is leaking at the manifold (black rubber pipe) or injector
Wouldn't that cause uneven/irregular engine running?

Edit: Let me say that I really appreciate all the tips and help here, seriously.

I checked the injector like you suggested. I had pulled it early on in this project before I replaced the fuel pump. You know, don't think that I had it seated all the way down. It took some doing.

So, thank you Maksor! Now I just have to repair the throttle body that I buggered up the other day.
Member
Piaggio Beverly Tourer 400
Joined: 01 Jan 2012
Posts: 22
Location: Pistoia, Tuscany - Italy
Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:41 am quote
Probably you need to control the fuel pressure, you have changed the fuel pump? Sometimes the problem is in the fuel pipes, if you don't have the minimum pressure the engine stops, you must control the pressure generates in the circuit
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:51 am quote
How do I adjust the fuel pressure?
Amazingly I was able to put the throttle body back together and install it. Also reseated the injector.

Exact.same.issue.

It starts fine and runs smooth. A few seconds later as the idle drops to a normal set idle the engine cuts out.

A suggestion was made to adjust the fuel pressure. How is that accomplished?
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Fri Apr 09, 2021 5:15 pm quote
Today I flushed out the injector with cleaner.

It ran a little longer but still is having the same result of the engine just cutting out.

This time I paid more attention to the rpms. It starts at around 2000 then goes back down to around 1200 and 1100 before cutting out.

Anyone?
Hooked
BV250, BV500
Joined: 10 Mar 2018
Posts: 116
Location: SFBay
Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:40 am quote
It's doing exactly what my 2008 did, and that completely went away with a computer firmware update. I also went through all the stuff you've been doing. With mine I couldn't come to a stop and use the lock to hold it upright because I had to run the engine too fast to keep it from stalling.
Member
2001 Vespa ET4 150, 2009 Piaggio MP3 500ie
Joined: 11 Feb 2021
Posts: 17
Location: Eugene, OR, US
Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:18 am quote
wentwest wrote:
It's doing exactly what my 2008 did, and that completely went away with a computer firmware update. I also went through all the stuff you've been doing. With mine I couldn't come to a stop and use the lock to hold it upright because I had to run the engine too fast to keep it from stalling.
Thanks wentwest! Looks like my next step is a trip to the dealer up in Portland.
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 ie 400
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 119
Location: Sydney
Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:22 pm quote
Maksor wrote:
and a ytx14 is to light its 12 amps it needs to be a ytx16bs 14amp or better a Mtx16bs motbatt 16amp 19amph
thanks for the info, I have an issue and need to replace the battery, it is good to know there is an option,
the link to the issue is:
MP3 400ie, 2009 model: when starting up first time...

thanks again,
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