Hey, I reconnected my Evap Hose...
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Ossessionato
2005 Dragon Red Vespa ET4 Speedster
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2109
Location: Rappahannock Co., Virginia
Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:11 am quote
and the scooter RAN FINE. I guess it takes about 6 months for the canister to dry out (in winter). As soon as I screw it up again, by over filling, I'll post the summer drying schedule

Jess, no need to put this in the technical section untill I finish my research
Addicted
et4 and px150
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 930
Location: nyc
Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:38 am quote
Why would you do that? It's only a requirement in California.
Addicted
Vespa GT200
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 792
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:41 am quote
I reconnected mine last night and the scooter idled fine.

This morning - in the rain I might add - I found out that it would idle but not run. So, in the dark and in the rain I had to disconnect it again.

I haven't waited the 6 months, I guess!
Ossessionato
2005 Dragon Red Vespa ET4 Speedster
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2109
Location: Rappahannock Co., Virginia
Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:31 am quote
Brouhaha wrote:
Why would you do that? It's only a requirement in California.
Anal retentive :? It bothered me to see that hose in there, not attached to anything, just staring at me defiantly...

And what if I decide to ride to California. I'd be tired when I got to the state line, forget to reconnect the hose, get stopped at a roadside emmissions surprise checkpoint and thrown in jail. Not how I want to spend my vacation, no sireee! Yup, better safe than sorry.
Addicted
et4 and px150
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 930
Location: nyc
Mon Apr 03, 2006 10:45 am quote
Ha!

I'm glad you're not my surgeon.... Next thing you know, I'd wake up with my appendix attached to my tonsils!

Technical Moderator
Consume Less & Share More
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 3130
Location: New Jersey, USA
Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:16 am quote
Brouhaha wrote:
Why would you do that? It's only a requirement in California.
US Federal Clean Air Act, Title II Emission Standards for Moving Sources wrote:
Sec. 203. (a) The following acts and the causing thereof are
prohibited-
...
(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any
device or element of design installed on or in a motor
vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regula-
tions under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the
ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or
render inoperative any such device or element of design
after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or
(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to
sell, or install, any part or component intended for use
with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle
engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is
to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or
element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or
motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under
this title, and where the person knows or should know that
such part or component is being offered for sale or
installed for such use or put to such use; or
...
Ossessionato
2005 Dragon Red Vespa ET4 Speedster
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2109
Location: Rappahannock Co., Virginia
Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:25 am quote
addicted wrote:
Brouhaha wrote:
Why would you do that? It's only a requirement in California.
US Federal Clean Air Act, Title II Emission Standards for Moving Sources wrote:
Sec. 203. (a) The following acts and the causing thereof are
prohibited-
...
(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any
device or element of design installed on or in a motor
vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regula-
tions under this title prior to its sale and delivery to the
ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or
render inoperative any such device or element of design
after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or
(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to
sell, or install, any part or component intended for use
with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle
engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is
to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or
element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or
motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under
this title, and where the person knows or should know that
such part or component is being offered for sale or
installed for such use or put to such use; or
...
Oh, that was the other reason I did it, yeah, that's the ticket.

Welcome back Gary.
Petty Tyrant
GTS250 GTS300 MP3 500
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 29652
Location: Bay Area, California
Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:45 am quote
Jerry - They'd stop you at the border, alright, but they're mostly interested in whether you're carrying any fruits or vegetables. I'm not kidding.

Gary - Nice to see your shining, errr, avatar around these parts again.
Enthusiast
GT200
Joined: 23 Nov 2005
Posts: 85
Location: Los Angeles
Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:07 pm quote
Let's be completely realistic about this... Does anyone really believe that the emissions control police is going to get them? C'mon... I see endless amounts of vehicles that are in clear emissions control violation on my daily commute. Do the cops even blink an eye??? Besides, the amount of fuel vapor that might escape from the evaporative control hose on a "modern" Vespa is miniscule compared to almost any other vehicle with a combustion engine (including a Prius). So, take my advice...remove the hose permanently and you'll never have a problem with your scoot.

My two cents.
Addicted
Piaggio X9 "Lexx"
Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 622
Location: London
Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:54 am quote
jess wrote:
Jerry - They'd stop you at the border, alright, but they're mostly interested in whether you're carrying any fruits or vegetables. I'm not kidding.
Or ferrets! Should you need to smuggle ferrets into California, help is at hand!

http://www.ferretsanon.com/miscpages/Avoidcheckpoints.htm
Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 11198
Location: Bee eff eee.
Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:45 am quote
Giuliano wrote:
Or ferrets! Should you need to smuggle ferrets into California, help is at hand!

http://www.ferretsanon.com/miscpages/Avoidcheckpoints.htm
Can I also use these for smuggling hedgehogs?
Molto Verboso
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 1464
Location: Worcester, Ma USA
Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:02 am quote
This is what they do to clowns that disconnect the evap hose.

Tim

Ossessionato
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 2666
Location: Brookfield, WI
Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:53 am quote
TheO.Z. wrote:
Giuliano wrote:
Or ferrets! Should you need to smuggle ferrets into California, help is at hand!

http://www.ferretsanon.com/miscpages/Avoidcheckpoints.htm
Can I also use these for smuggling hedgehogs?
Here's mine, when she was about 2½ months old. She's now almost three years old.

HH3.JPG

Ossessionato
2012 BMW G650GS, 2006 GTS,
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 2087
Location: Snohomish County, WA
Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:55 am quote
Giuliano wrote:
jess wrote:
Jerry - They'd stop you at the border, alright, but they're mostly interested in whether you're carrying any fruits or vegetables. I'm not kidding.
Or ferrets! Should you need to smuggle ferrets into California, help is at hand!

http://www.ferretsanon.com/miscpages/Avoidcheckpoints.htm
Just remember that NO PETS sticker under the seat!
Ossessionato
2005 Dragon Red Vespa ET4 Speedster
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2109
Location: Rappahannock Co., Virginia
Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:24 pm quote
Got caught by the Highway Patrol today in an Emmissions Checkpoint "trap" . Thank goodness I had reconnected that hose.

They did confiscate a bananna I had under the seat, though. I told them it was just my lunch. I guess I got off easy because they only briefly glanced at my sandwich. Hedgehog pimento loaf with cheese. Mmmmm...
Ossessionato
GTS, LX, VSD, VSX, VNX, LD 125, Chucky, LI125
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 4179
Location: San Jose CA
Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:08 pm quote
I really do wonder if any self respecting organ(lol) of law enforcement would bother with a scooter, I mean its only a mo-ped for Christ's sake.

Tell them the darn hose fell off, ask them to help you reattach....

Common sence and proportion have been lynched, burried and long forgotten in America today.

Nanny gov has run amock and we are now scared little children asking permission to pull a vacume hose.....

I call BS, and if they don't like it me and my friends will fire up the 2-strokes and show those little wussies what some REAL pollution looks like!

I love the smell of blue smoke in the morning!

(end of daily rant)......

R

Oh, look what we found on our monthly ride Sunday...this was hidden WAY up in the redwoods, a monestary/meditation center......

http://davisfields.smugmug.com/photos/62919681-L.jpg
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Yamaha Vstar classic 650 'Yamama' (Currently waspless but don't count me out!)
Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 6723
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:24 pm quote
One would think that after having spent time in front of the Budha that you would be more at peace, glasseye, instead of ranting as you did...
Ossessionato
GTS, LX, VSD, VSX, VNX, LD 125, Chucky, LI125
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 4179
Location: San Jose CA
Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:59 pm quote
Quote:
having spent time in front of the Budha
Budha reminded me I'm fat, which reminded me I am on a diet, which reminded me I am hungery and have eaten way too much chicken lately all of which makes me stressed and in need of a good rant......

feeling a little better now.....

my kingdom for a beer and burrito!.....

R
Addicted
et4 and px150
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 930
Location: nyc
Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:22 pm quote
addicted wrote:
Brouhaha wrote:
Why would you do that? It's only a requirement in California.
US Federal Clean Air Act, Title II Emission Standards for Moving Sources wrote:
Sec. 203. (a) The following acts and the causing thereof are
prohibited-
...
(3)(A) for any person to remove or render inoperative any
device or element of design installed on or in a motor
vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regula-
tions under this title
prior to its sale and delivery to the
ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or
render inoperative any such device or element of design
after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or
(B) for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to
sell, or install, any part or component intended for use
with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle
engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is
to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or
element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or
motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under
this title
, and where the person knows or should know that
such part or component is being offered for sale or
installed for such use or put to such use; or
...
LOL... Sorry I haven't been checking the board but... Did anyone actually read the reg? It doesn't apply! Since the evap system isn't required by Federal law to be in compliance with the clean air act, removing the system isn't prohibited. I've bolded the key words. The language is intended to cover the removal of a catalytic converter or similar situations.

The evap system is only required by California state law (which is stricter than the Federal standards) so what is quoted simply has no relevance to Jerry's situation in Virginia or in any other state. The only reason it's on all the scooters is because it is easier to do that than make different scooters for California. Outside of CA, it is simply not illegal to remove, disable, sell, eat or probably even burn the evap system.
Ossessionato
GTS, LX, VSD, VSX, VNX, LD 125, Chucky, LI125
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 4179
Location: San Jose CA
Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:39 pm quote
Quote:
Outside of CA, it is simply not illegal to remove, disable, sell, eat or probably even burn the evap system.
"Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."
Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

R
Addicted
et4 and px150
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 930
Location: nyc
Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:22 pm quote
"We are oft to blame in this. 'Tis too much proved that with devotion's visage and pious action we do sugar o'er the devil himself." (Hamlet)
Technical Moderator
Consume Less & Share More
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 3130
Location: New Jersey, USA
Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:23 pm quote
The two previous entries are interesting, in that they are abstract and poetic. In that reign, my favorite reference is to Greek Mythology, specifically the Procrustean Bed. It's a fascinating fable.

Remember. we are all friends here. Post for guidance, not for harm. There are no absolutes, only lessons to be learned. I'm all ears...
Hooked
2006 Fly 150
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 350
Location: Bloomington, MN
Fri Apr 07, 2006 5:03 am quote
TheO.Z. wrote:
Giuliano wrote:
Or ferrets! Should you need to smuggle ferrets into California, help is at hand!

http://www.ferretsanon.com/miscpages/Avoidcheckpoints.htm
Can I also use these for smuggling hedgehogs?
I think there is a conspiracy between the State of California and Vespa. Why else would Vespa put a "No Pets" sticker in the best hiding space for ferrits and hedgehogs?
Technical Moderator
Consume Less & Share More
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 3130
Location: New Jersey, USA
Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:49 am quote
Brouhaha wrote:
LOL... Sorry I haven't been checking the board but... Did anyone actually read the reg? It doesn't apply! Since the evap system isn't required by Federal law to be in compliance with the clean air act, removing the system isn't prohibited. I've bolded the key words. The language is intended to cover the removal of a catalytic converter or similar situations.

The evap system is only required by California state law (which is stricter than the Federal standards) so what is quoted simply has no relevance to Jerry's situation in Virginia or in any other state. The only reason it's on all the scooters is because it is easier to do that than make different scooters for California. Outside of CA, it is simply not illegal to remove, disable, sell, eat or probably even burn the evap system.
In my home state, NJ (The Garden State), we have a mandatory vehicle inspection program. Automotive EVAP systems are checked yearly, and if found to be defective, the vehicle must be repaired within 30 days. They don't currently check the EVAP system for motorcycle inspections, but the same law applies.
Here's a link to NJ's vehicle inspection program checklist.
NY, my former home state (The Empire State), also has a mandatory vehicle inspection program. NY includes EVAP testing and compliance in its inspection program.

Information about each program is available online.
Hooked
Black Vespa GTS 250cc
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 102
Location: New York City
Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:33 am quote
Brouhaha wrote:
Outside of CA, it is simply not illegal to remove, disable, sell, eat ...
Eating the Evap hose - mmmm - I'll try that and get back to ya.....
Addicted
et4 and px150
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 930
Location: nyc
Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:49 am quote
addicted wrote:
In my home state, NJ (The Garden State), we have a mandatory vehicle inspection program. Automotive EVAP systems are checked yearly, and if found to be defective, the vehicle must be repaired within 30 days. They don't currently check the EVAP system for motorcycle inspections, but the same law applies.
****
NY, my former home state (The Empire State), also has a mandatory vehicle inspection program. NY includes EVAP testing and compliance in its inspection program.
Addicted, not trying to beat a dead horse, but that's not true. I'm confused where you're getting your information. I just called both Vespa dealers to confirm, and both A.D. (head of service) of Vespa SoHo and Alki (manager) of Vespa Queens said they've never heard of that. Both dealers sell Vespas to the NJ market. A.D. said the EVAP system should absolutely be disconnected at all times. He also told me the NY inspection is a safety inspection only and doesn't involve emissions. I just had mine, EVAP disconnected, they never looked at the motor.

I've PM'd the owner of Scooters O in Jersey on our forum to get her take as well, will advise.

Again, not trying to turn this into a competition (spirit of guidance and not harm and all that ), but just don't want people to be misinformed and attach that piece of shite to their engine unecessarily, degrading performance.
Technical Moderator
Consume Less & Share More
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 3130
Location: New Jersey, USA
Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:04 am quote
Yes, I've already stated that NJ and NY does not currently check motorcycle emissions equipment in their vehicular compliance program. And yes, both states only check for safety related issues on motorcycles. Both states do check EVAP equipment on automotive vehicles though, and the same law applies to motorcycles, regardless of state inspection.

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't use words of profanity, be they actual or facsimile.
Ossessionato
2005 Dragon Red Vespa ET4 Speedster
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 2109
Location: Rappahannock Co., Virginia
Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:12 am quote
Again, not trying to turn this into a competition (spirit of guidance and not harm and all that ), but just don't want people to be misinformed and attach that piece of shite to their engine unecessarily, degrading performance


How much is the performance really affected on a scooter by removing the evap. I'm no expert, I but didn't notice a difference on my stock ET. Maybe it would be more noticable on a high performance car or 250GTS.

Last edited by JerryG on Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:22 am; edited 1 time in total
Addicted
et4 and px150
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 930
Location: nyc
Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:14 am quote
Oh, I see what you're saying now but I remain not 100% convinced.

Well, parking on the sidewalk is also illegal here but as long as people keep knocking over my scoot when I park it in the street, I ain't stoppin' that either. Call me a lawbreaker!

P.S. Certain other things are technically illegal in states like Alabama as well... guess how many people obey *that* law?
Addicted
et4 and px150
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 930
Location: nyc
Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:19 am quote
JerryG wrote:
How much is the performance really affected on a scooter by removing the evap. I'm no expert, I but didn't notice a difference on my stock ET.
Speaking from personal experience and from discussions with other local ET riders and the aformentioned service dept's, it affects the airflow in the carb so as to degrade acceleration and response. I've noticed a big difference. I was even stalling and hes-hes-hesitating on acceleration. The mechanics here call it a defective device and urge it be disconnected.
addicted wrote:
I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't use words of profanity, be they actual or facsimile.
Duly noted, but facsimile words aren't words of profanity, that's kinda the point.
Hooked
Black Vespa GTS 250cc
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 102
Location: New York City
Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:44 am quote
I would prefer you use MORE profanity.
Technical Moderator
Consume Less & Share More
Joined: 25 Oct 2005
Posts: 3130
Location: New Jersey, USA
Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:53 am quote
Okay, we're communicating now.
I'm not advocating strict compliance with the law, especially if your scooter won't run with the EVAP connected. I was an early advocate, at least in the MV community, of helping others to get their scooter running by providing instruction about disconnecting their carburetor's EVAP hose.
I also park on the sidewalk in Manhattan, and elsewhere. It's a matter of scooter survival.
I do believe in the social graces though. I feel it makes the world a better place. I'm sure you feel likewise.
Addicted
et4 and px150
Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 930
Location: nyc
Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:59 am quote
I'm right witcha buddy.
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