nitrogen in scooter tires?
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:42 am quote
I've seen a couple of news stories lately about consumers using nitrogen in their car tires rather than air. It allegedly makes a significant improvement in mileage, tires stay inflated longer (less leakage), tires last longer, stay cooler, etc. Is this a bunch of hooey, or is it something we should all be considering for our scooters? (and cars?)
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:51 am quote
You just can't make this stuff up, or can you? Any SCUBA certified diver will be quick to state that the air we breathe is about 78% nitrogen. This inert gas is what gives divers the bends.
This story is silly. It's basically a lot of compressed air.
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:39 am quote
It's not so much the nitrogen as the lack of oxygen, as I understand it. By using 100% nitrogen instead of the usual 78% nitrogen, you (supposedly) don't lose pressure as rapidly due to oxygen seeping through the rubber. Nitrogen, they say, seeps as well, but does it more slowly.

You also don't have the oxidizing effects of oxygen on aluminum and steel rims to deal with. Also, straight air tends to be moist, and compressing the air without properly drying it will result in moisture in your tires. Inflating with pure nitrogen (supposedly) gets around this.

Here's a page with a PDF on the subject. I don't know if any of it is true or not, but that's the story.
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:18 am quote
I saw a blurb on the news the other morning about this. Some tire store was charging around $35 to fill your tires. the pointed out all the same reasons Jess just mentioned. Wouldn't you have to "vacume" out all the air first? Much like re-charging an A/C unit?
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:34 am quote
As a pilot and owner of an Airplane, I know this to be true. For our shocks that use air, not only is it recommended that we use nitrogen it is required.

$35 to fill some tires sound a bit pricey to me.
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 9:48 am quote
stldon wrote:
Wouldn't you have to "vacume" out all the air first? Much like re-charging an A/C unit?
Good point, when we've used nitrogen for storage etc in manufacturing you either have to evacuate (vacuum) or purge (blow all the old stuff out first).

I guess you have to ask yourself, am I having problems with my rims etc due to moisture?

And since there is still "some leakage" you'd have to go back to your 'Nitrogen store' for a fill up occasionally.

I would bet that your stems lose 10+ times the air that you loose from seepage through the tire. Maybe as much from the fit of the tires on the rims and imperfections in the seals.
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Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:09 pm quote
I'd personally rather have those airless Michelins with the funky ribs inside them. Never having to worry about tire pressure, flats or leaks would be awesome.
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Sat Apr 08, 2006 12:05 am quote
Bryce Ludwig wrote:
I'd personally rather have those airless Michelins with the funky ribs inside them. Never having to worry about tire pressure, flats or leaks would be awesome.
Try using some Ultraseal in your tires.
My GT had a slow leak that went away. I put the stuff in the tires on two bikes 4-5 months ago and haven't had to add any air since.
Ultraseal claims the stuff will self-seal puncture wounds from nails and the like, and that even on a blow-out it'll slow the air coming out and give you more of a chance of control. I don't know about any of those, but I feel better having it in my tires.
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Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:09 am quote
Nitrogen is used in Aviation to fill tires, Landing gear struts, Door assist bottles and anything that needs compressed gas to operate. It is more stable with temperature, helps keep corrosion down and does not leak through the rubber. But economically, I think it is not consumer friendly for the average person to use. Bear.

ps...$35 to fill tires is a bit high. The dealer is taking it's customers for a ride
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Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:21 am quote
Bryce Ludwig wrote:
I'd personally rather have those airless Michelins with the funky ribs inside them. Never having to worry about tire pressure, flats or leaks would be awesome.
Motorcycle safety would increase exponentially, if this became available in a compatible tire. This is an idea that can create an entire industry, and revolutionize motorcycling. It should be taken seriously.
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Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:32 am quote
Ifixjets wrote:
Nitrogen is used in Aviation to fill tires, Landing gear struts, Door assist bottles and anything that needs compressed gas to operate. It is more stable with temperature, helps keep corrosion down and does not leak through the rubber...
According to Goodyear's aviation tire FAQ, aviation tires are nylon, and automotive tires are polyester/rubber blends.
EDIT: Goodyear was referring only to the tire's fabric, as Dixiecrat points-out.

I've used nylon inner-tubes, in bicycle racing tires. They deflate overnight.
EDIT: This bicycle review site page has many complaints about "leaky" laytex bicycle racing inner-tubes. http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Tube/product_80181.shtml

Last edited by addicted on Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:09 am quote
Quote:
According to Goodyear's aviation tire FAQ, all aviation tires are nylon, and automotive tires are polyester/rubber blends. Nylon tires loose air faster than polyester/rubber tires. I've used nylon inner-tubes, in bicycle racing tires. They deflate overnight.
I can't speak for all of aviation but in GA (general aviation) ie Cessnas, our tires are NOT tubless and I do run Goodyear, as they do make the best GA tires.
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Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:52 am quote
Aviation tires have nylon CORDS, the black stuff you see on the outside is rubber, they are bias ply. Nylon is elastic and absorbs the shocks of landing; some of us tend to have more shock than others. Polyester doesn't stretch, it holds its shape under constant loads. Most auto tires have polyester cords plus steel or kevlar belts, belts over radial ply. Most cycle tires are bias ply not belted. May be anything, nylon, polyester, whatever.
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Sat Apr 08, 2006 6:55 am quote
Race cars use nitrogen in the tires for the presssure stability. The pressure does not change as much as tires with compressed air, and when fractions of PSI make a difference, it is worth it to them.

I was in getting snow tires for my car last fall, and a lady came in and asked about putting nitrogen in her tires. The owner told her he could put it in for her, but that in normal driving she wouldn't notice a thing. She said she read it was supposed to "last longer" than air. He asked her how often she checked her tires now, and she said a couple times a year. He said it wouldn't be noticeable to her, and to not waste her money. That's why I go there!
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Sat Apr 08, 2006 7:10 am quote
stldon wrote:
I saw a blurb on the news the other morning about this. Some tire store was charging around $35 to fill your tires. the pointed out all the same reasons Jess just mentioned. Wouldn't you have to "vacume" out all the air first? Much like re-charging an A/C unit?
COSTCO put nitrogen in my tires, on the car, when I had them changed and said I could come back for FREE touch-up fills when needed.

Janine
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Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:39 pm quote
Chuckles, "This has come up elsewhere, so I'll give you some info from various things I've read. The fact that its used in aviation was news to me, but its also becoming more common in over the road trucks. Having larger molecules, nitrogen doesn't seem through the tires as easily as oxygen does, it has greater temperature stability and it also preserves the tire better. Downside though is cost, though in over the road trucks where tires are often retreaded multiple times, the benefits are far greater than the cost, allowing a carcass to be retreaded more often, also providing the safety of tires that are less likely to deflate. For cars, motorcycles, scooters and other vehicles, there's nothing wrong with using nitrogen, but its overkill and really a waste of money as the tires are a one use item.
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