Modern Vespa

hi, i did search for this topic but couldn't find a specific one, so I'm sharing my latest "scooter 'important purchase of the month'" (there's always something... a windscreen... a new jacket...a horn cover... helmet... then new gloves... the list goes on!)

Following an accident a friend had and literally would have been left teethless and faceless wasn't for his mighty full face Shoei, he just had bad scratches on this foot and shin, no broken bones, face untouched.

So boyfriend and moi decided to exchange our much loved matching Momo designs for full faces.
he got an Arai Condor in black today for his birthday, I promised to by mine after pay day.

What does everyone think of the FULL vs OPEN face debate?

and lastly...
what do you think: have the options of Arai Condor SILVER (available at the shop with a discount) or a BLACK Arai Condor to match my boyfriend's?
Silver looks more feminine but I think the black would go well with the "white on black" story on Shirley's colour scheme. Plus bf and I would match when riding together.

Too much detail??? It's in the gene, I can't control it!!


what do you guys think?


me on Shirley with my current (and soon to be old) Momo Design

would go with Shirley's "white on black" colour scheme and would match boyfriend's own so we're "matching heads"?

available at shop with £25 discount and more feminine?

Shirley - note the "white on black" colour scheme, especially with her "winter outfit" (Tucano Thermoscud)

People will post a picture of a full face helmet all scuffed around the chin area. Then they will tell you 75% or something of most falls hit the face/chin area blah blah blah.

I'm going to start riding around without any helmet and just a chin pad on. That should make the chin nazis happy.

I ride open face.

I like the black better than silver.

Last edited by therailnutter on Sun Jan 13, 2008 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

I would go with grey, looks better to me and it much visible than black.

Oh by the way, that photo belongs in the Scooter Babes thread....if it's ever unlocked.

This is one of the biggest can of worms you can open on a forum.

But the basic point is that a full face or modular protects more of your head in a crash and may save your life or at least your face. Yes, an open-face does afford some protection but it still leaves a lot vulnerable.

It's really not much of a debate, just a matter or how much risk and consequence you're willing to accept. It's a personal decision more than a group consensus. If you're comfortable knowing that—should you crash—your face could be mashed, your jaw shattered, etc., well okay then.

I currently wear a 3/4 with a full face shield but will be getting a modular this week. My face isn't nearly as nice as yours and I still think it needs more protection!

So, congrats on making the decision to go FF. I like the black.

This guy thinks that when the sh*t comes down when you least expect it and at the least mph you expect - and it will - it is best to have afforded yourself the most protection a full face helmet has to offer.

This means: forget fashion & forget matching & forget price. Cuteness aside, your brains are worth it, I promise.

Find a moto shop that knows its stuff. Get fitted by a seasoned bike-riding professional. Buy that helmet at what ever the price.

Arai & Shoei are among the best - but they tend to optimally fit different (oval vs round) shaped heads. That is why you need the pro to help guide you and not buy something willy-nilly on-line for cheap.

Hope this doesn't off as too intense, but a properly fitted FF helmet is the #1 way to help ensure you will enjoy a lifetime of scooting!

BTW, there are numerous threads on this topic - [searchy] is your friend.

July 1, 2005.

Cycling (my Kestrel road bike) up a hill, really leaning into it, something is bounced into the spokes of my front wheel. Wheel stops dead, and I'm slammed to the pavement in my bicycle helmet.

When I come to, there is blood everywhere, soaking my shirt, spattered on the asphalt, and the pain in my face is incredible. I get to my feet, and realize my shoulder is dislocated and I think my hand is broken. I can't see out of my right eye. I squirt myself off with the water bottle and start limping home, pushing the bike. My accountant happens to ride by and tells me I have to stop, and she is calling an ambulance.

The ambulance ride is quick, and my eyelid is stitched back into place in the ER. I'm sent to have a CAT scan and the doctor looks grim. I hear the words "We need a facial trauma guy" and I feel sick to my stomach. Seems my face has been broken in a few places and is pushed in. I'll be going in for reconstructive surgery later that week.

General anesthetic, skull and jaw bones being rearranged and pinned back with titanium plates, no feeling in half my face for the next two years, $8,000 in bills. Yeah, it sucked.

So I guess it makes me a helmet Nazi, bit I won't trade protection for style points. Full-face every ride.

But make your own decisions.

Ride On bro.

One thing HN's have in common is the 1st hand knowledge of that wonderful "Feces Occurs" experience.

\osc

I dig that jacket, Shirley. I'd go for black or white... be best if you and the sig other had a black and a white!

I recently switched to a full face EXO 700 Scorpion in gloss black. Fashion-wise it's little too pristine and spiffy. Also I want to be more visible - so I'm off to the marine supply shop tomorrow for some 3M Solas reflective tape.

Hi this is a picture of my wife who went down with a open-face helemt. We now ride with full face only.. The ground does not forgive.


Becky with new fullface helmet

Becky had on a openface helmet when she went down

Has anybody tried the HJC modular helmets? I like the flip up design but I am not sure about the quality. It gets into the upper 90's in July and August down here so I would like to leave it flipped up in the neighborhood but when I jump in the highway be able to flip it down for more safety.

Let's not turn this into an open face versus full face debate. I suspect that you have already made up your mind, and are seeking some support for that decision.

Decisions about helmets are left to the individual. I chose a full face and would not ride without it. However, if I could find a 3/4 that came with a magical force field that kicked in when needed, I would probably choose that. Still waiting ...

Full face unless you're related to a dentist/face trauma specialist. Call us Nazis but the highest percentage of head strikes are on the jaw -- only a full face or modular will provide protection against that. This really is a no-brainer, even if you wear glasses as I do.

senor_stoveman - that picture of your wife is frightening ... and eye opening. I am glad that she made a good recovery!

I have and HJC and I like it just fine. I hope I never have to tell you how well it works in a crash, though.

I keep it latched down all the time. If I want some more air, the face shield flips up independently.

Given the thread title and the very specifically-worded original question, I thought that the purpose here was to debate. Unless MV rules prohibit posts in which which differing opinions are voiced, in which case the thread should be deleted.

Which one fits better what? Arai = oval and Shoei = round?

Salima Draghetta

The real question is whether you wear a full-face helmet while riding your bicycle. Why be inconsistent?

I've asked myself the same, which is why I'm curious how others rationalize their response. I find it hard to justify given that I'm flying down hills on my bicycle well over 30mph with a half lid, and the only other piece of my body protected being the palms of my hands. I feel hypocritical. Same roads. Same speeds. Different standards. Why?

So, I kind of stick to a sliding scale of risk. I allow myself to dress more bicycle-like if I keep to the streets / speeds / risks that I would be willing to take while bicycling. That doesn't mean I'm in shorts and a bicycle helmet. I obey helmet laws. But I don't necessarily gear up with a full-face/jacket/armor, etc. I gear up more motorcycle-like if I'm exceeding what I could do on a bicycle. 35mph is kind of my cutoff point where I start wearing the jacket, whipping out my full-face, etc. On the highway, I'm very likely to have my full-face on, and absolutely my jacket. I can brake my own rules, of course...but I recognize I'm doing something silly.

The quality is good, but the fit is kind of particular. You should try some on. The modulars do not all fit the same as their FF counterparts.

Here's a review of the newer HJC modular:
http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/motorcycle-helmet/hjc/fs-max/

(Good site for all kinds of helmet reviews.)

It's neither hypocritical or inconsistent. It's practical. Were I to wear leathers and a helmet on my bicycle, my rides would be severely limited in length. With a motorized vehicle the extra weight and constriction becomes largely irrelevant. Like you, we all use a sliding risk/reward scale. If I stay in bed I'm less likely to die in an accident as well, but the potential reward of interacting with other human beings outweighs that risk. With motorcycle helmets though, people seem to often choose style over all else. Ride through South Carolina (no helmet laws) and see that this debate is not about whether it's practical to haul 20 pounds of protective gear up Mt. Mitchell on my 17 pound bicycle. It's about protection versus being perceived as a cool, carefree, scenester.

Thanks She has started riding again slowly and with the fullface helmet on. What a girl.

I convinced my wife to wear a fullface by telling her that asphalt has a tendency to rub the cute off.

I wear an arai full-face helmet. I'm happy with the fit, weight, and noise level. It's probably too old.


I hope I never need the protection it provides.


I'm not sure that a helmet should be thought of as a fashion accessory.
I think your upgrade might be a wise one. Have fun choosing.

cheers

does that mean you will be selling the momo's (what sizes and prices if so)

Anyway as everyone else has said it really seems to be all about how much risk you want to take. Full face seems most logical in many situations, but honestly if I am cruising along the beach at 25 I think I might rather have a half or a 3/4 and that is something I am willing to risk.

My wife and I bth went for the HJC SyMax flip-ups. They our oval heads nicely, and the circulation with the vents open is adequate for CA summers at speed. We both had to go back to the helmet store to get thinner cheek pads for our helmets. They can be purchased seperately for about $10 a set. The guy at the shop told us to get the helmets "a little snug" knowing that the padding in the helmet would wear n, and they have. The cheek pads remained too thick, though, so we went for the thinner pads in each. Otherwise, for visibility and for keepin cooler in the sun, I would get something other than our black ones.

Last July, I went down at about 10 MPH (maybe less as I was braking at the time). I was wearing my brand new 3/4 helmet. After getting home from the ER (sprained ankle, wrist, small laceration on hand - two stitches - bruised face, bruised and scraped knee) I saw that the face shield had a long vertical scrape on it and had come off one hinge.

I realized that, any faster, the face shield would have failed completely instead of just pushing into my face and bruising it. I also impacted first on the helmet rather than chin first. I was lucky.

I'm now an Toreador Pants (All The Gear, All The Time) guy. If anyone is curious, I just say, "I've grown attached to my skin. I'd like to keep it that way."

I wear a full-face Z1R Strike helmet which fits my "long oval" head very well.

With all due respect, I would hardly describe that lighter colored Arai full-face helmet as "Feminine!"

Also, for what it's worth, I have a Davida Classic Jet 3/4 helmet. I have no idea what it's like to wear a full helmet; but I'm sure it's not the sensation I bought a scooter to experience. Furthermore, I agree that any cost-risk analysis has to take into account the kind of riding being done. I haven't seen the statistics; but I can't help but think that riding on residential side streets at 35mph or under with almost no other traffic is an inherently safer riding universe.

Unfortunately, the statistics kind of suck. But while you may be less likely to get into an accident in those conditions (and really, which of us does most of our riding in those conditions?) as mpfrank indicated earlier, you can get pretty seriously injured at 35mph. I had a crash at 25mph and seriously injured my shoulder.

If you wear a helmet to protect yourself in the unfortunate incidence of a crash, the speed at which you're traveling is a poor basis for deciding which type of helmet to wear. Landing on your face at 15mph will probably mess it up pretty good. It also doesn't make sense to choose a 3/4 over a FF because the likelihood of a crash is less. That just means that in the less-likely event of a crash, you're more willing to endanger your face.

The only rationale that works for me is "I know the risks and am willing to take them and live with any repercussions." This is the decision we make every time we ride a scoot.

I can't beleive this thread has resurfaced today as I was just thinking of reviving it myself. This morning I bumped into a friend who I had not seen for over a year. He told me he has been off work for three months following a Scooter crash (on coming cage right turned in front).
He was thrown face first onto the bonnet wearing a FF. He has had a major concussion but was saved from "horrific facial injuries" had he been wearing open face. The helmet and chin bar left a perfect impression in the bonnet (U.S. 'hood').
This has been a life-changing experience for him and unfortunately he won't ride again. On the positive side he has quit his teaching career and is having a shot at a long anticipated life as a glass artist.
I wish him well.

I still have a jaw due to full face helmets , several times.

I can resent the heat, but get a fliptop and you can survive even if you cheat at times.

Once upon a time I rode with beret or sports cap(harris tweed of course) and goggles, boy, I was lucky!

Accidents are often at slow speeds and on roads you know.

I dislike helmets but owe my life to them on more than a few occasions.

Just live with it! Please pardon that weak joke.

I call that a practical inconsistency. The real impact, nevertheless, is exposure, whether for the sake of practicality or scene-making. I totally understand, though, and find it to be an entirely rational perspective. Don't you just love how those little foam pads between the helmet and your head turn into sweat bombs after a good ride?


Has anyone seen the Schuberth J1? If it weren't so hard to get a hold of (and if the price wasn't absolutely stratospheric) I'd love to get my hands on one, as it seems to be a decent combination of features.

Btw, to quote webBikeWorld, "the Schuberth J1 is not DOT approved and apparently Schuberth has no plans to sell it in the U.S.A. It does conform to the ECE 22-05 standard though, so it's legal for use by European riders."

Interesting helmet.

Yep, it sucks, don't it?


Do you realize you can *buy* DOT stickers?

but according to one seller's auction:

"These have many novelty uses and are not intended for use as labels for real legal Helmets

Nor will they make a helmet that is not certified a certified helmet"

pretty clever

This is one of those potentially volatile topics that crops up at regular intervals. If you (re)check the MV guidelines (thank you! ), you'll see that discussions of "helmet laws" are on this list of prohibited topics.

So we're skirting the limits here....

Thanks for keeping the "debate" civil and to the point.

My own preference is to ride FF all the time. And I'm one of many happy owners of the HJC modular flip-up full-face, the SyMax. With the flip-up, I can catch some breeze at a stop light, and talk with the gas station attendant without taking off my helmet. It's also easier to get my stylish sunglasses on and off!

Good fit should be tops on the list-- In my case the HJC helmets fit better, for example, than some more expensive helmets.

White has tested out as the most visible hue (therefore my choice). Light or bright colors are next. Reflective decals, tape, or "halos" improve your nighttime visibility. Black? Never out of fashion, but at the bottom of the visibility range.

Shirley Mary, how about a white flip-up? (And since you asked, I vote against matching outfits for couples, and for people and their pets--!)

Good luck-- I'm glad to know you'll be riding safer.

Ciao,

--Deborah

Last edited by pdxvespa on Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:51 pm; edited 1 time in total

i believe as of sometime last year (?) the "DOT" is now required to be painted on rather than a sticker. some chick at a bike shop told me that.

HJC modular=

OP- black... and get some reflective sticky things for it

FWIW, I upgraded to a full face from a 3/4 and now I could not imagine riding without it. Once you get used to it, it will feel like second nature to you. Your decision to upgrade is a good one, well worth the money and any initial awkwardness. Its not about if you crash: its when. When you do, you will be glad for the extra protection you have invested in.

It was a hard choice for me. A 25 mph laydown with an open face helmet cost 4 front teeth. Knocked them just hard enough to fracture below the gumline and I had to have them extracted a week later. Fortunately that was the only serious facial damage. My wife and I switched to full-face helmets before I got the green light to ride again. To be honest, the full face is more comfortable to me, even here in sunny Hawaii.

I respect individual choice when it comes to helmets. My advice to new riders is wear a full-face helmet. You might be surprised to find that you like it. After riding for awhile you can always reevaluate your sense of risk.


That's a Vicodin smile.

And it was just in time for Halloween.

I'm going to just stick to the topic here as I've seen this subject get run into the ground so often.

1. Full vs. Open = how much risk you are willing to take. I think you already answered your own question on that topic though.

2. Forget about matching, go with what fits best for you guys (and besides, if you go matching just to match, and then you break up, your helmets will forever be linked!!)

3. I wore a 3/4 here until finally swayed by all the posts here about accidents and just switched to modular. I got a Roof Boxer V, but I don't think it's very feminine...but then again, what full face *is* feminine?? Seriously, unless it has feminine graphics, the shape of most I've seen are pretty much the same.

Personal taste in color always makes me lean towards lighter/brighter just because it's safer, but the important thing is fit. Find a model that fits, and then sift through style.