Special tools for Vintage
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Hooked
'79 P200
Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Dallas, Texas
Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:01 am quote
I'm sure it's been asked and answered...what specialty tools do I need to work on a vintage vespa? What is in most toolboxes?
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1960 vbb 150
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 59
Location: ireland
Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:54 am quote
Re: Special tools for Vintage
GTSBERG wrote:
I'm sure it's been asked and answered...what specialty tools do I need to work on a vintage vespa? What is in most toolboxes?
a number 13 spanner ,and your sorted, a fly wheel holding tool,a fly wheel removing tool,a castle nut tool for the clutch,not much else really,
WHOoligan
1985 PX200E Arcobaleno : 2010/14 GTS300 S: RIP GTS250 @ 40K
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
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Location: Los Angeles Kings, Stanley Cup Champions X2
Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:10 am quote
allow me to add.
There is a special gas tape tool, I dont know where to get one, but I have one from years gone by, pm me and I will take a photo of it post it.

You can rig a gear puller for the flywheel, but be warned it could break a piece off the flywheel if your not careful.
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1962 GS160mk1, 1963 GS160mk2, 1965 SS180, 1974 Rally 200, wife's LI150
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 6971

Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:04 pm quote
1) Sears craftsman Metric ignition wrenches. The best $14 you ever spent for the set of 4mm-11mm. ( the ones you'll use most are sizes 7 + 8mm ) These are like really thin metric wrenches that let you get in to do pinchbolt adjustments in tiny places.

2) A 4th hand tool ( for cable adjustment )

3) A GOOD set of circlip pliers. I have a set of sears craftsman professional grade...and they are AWESOME ...let you switch beween squeeze-in and squeeze out with a little lever.

4) A couple sets of vice-grips, big and little sizes

5) A set of metric box wrenches, from 11mm on up ( mine go to 24mm )

6) Set of metric sockets... deep well and regular, from 5mm - 24mm-ish ( with 17mm being specifically important on a vespa ).

7) Air compressor controlled impact wrench to drive said sockets

all sorts of screwdrivers

9) Bearing Grease

10) Goof-Off degreaser ( from home depot, availible for $20 a gallon )

11) A cable lubrication tool ... this is like a little thingy you screw onto the end of a cable outer that lets you shoot lube down it, even if the inner is inside of it. It's incredibly handy and only costs like 4-5 bucks.

12) A set of cable cutters that can handle 2mm braided steel easily.

13) A dremel tool + cutting wheels. You're going to need this eventually.

14) A multimeter w/ continuity tester on it

I just spent the last 3 days disassembling a Series 3 lambretta in the basement, and i think i used just about all the above tools.
Addicted
Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 558

Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:37 pm quote
Rover Eric wrote:
3) A GOOD set of circlip pliers. I have a set of sears craftsman professional grade...and they are AWESOME ...let you switch beween squeeze-in and squeeze out with a little lever.
eric, is that the set with the interchangeable tips? i got a set of craftsman circlip pliers (not sure if they're professional grade) and they're kinda sucky. the cheapy harbor freight one's have never let me down.

i bought 2 sets of craftsman metric wrenches & sockets so i have my "house" tools, and scooter tools. if i go on the road, i carry a small box w/ flywheel holder, puller, clutch nut, sparkplug socket, universal, extension, screwdriver w/ nut driver bit, 4th hand tool, and assortment of metric box wrenches and sockets.

plastic golf t's for plugging oil injection line, or gas line if your tap is leaky. most valuable tool you will own will be a proper torque wrench...not cheap, but will save you a lot of time and money by not stripping out those cheap pot metal castings in the case.
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1962 GS160mk1, 1963 GS160mk2, 1965 SS180, 1974 Rally 200, wife's LI150
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Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:56 pm quote
I totally forgot about the torque wrench.


There is no way these circlip pliers could be construed as "sucky" in any way. They changed my life for the better.

They are a one-piece design, black grips, and a little switch in the middle to go from squeeze-in to Squeeze-out. The tips CAN change, but i never do change them. They fit with a little allen wrench.

i am NOT talking about these things, which are the worst tool EVER. Don't even waste your time with these.
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 7263
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:31 am quote
to the above add:

needle nose pliers
clutch holding tool
spark plug socket
13mm deep socket
11, 13 & 14mm racheting wrenches
tie down straps
blocks of wood (for under the center stand to get the bike up in the air)
jack stand (to hold the ass end up)
19mm socket in 1/2" drive
22mm sockt in 1/2" drive
1/4" drive torque wrench in lb/ft or NM
3/8" drive torque wrench in lb/ft or NM
precision plier set (the little mini jobbers with hooked jaws, etx)
steering bearing retainer ring tool
two 8mm open end wrenches
two 9mm open end wrenches
two 7mm open end wrenches
hammers... lots and lots of hammers.
screw drivers, the same... a large array helps
pry bars a decent amount.
feel gauges
prope style test light
good auto ranging multimeter
alligator clip tester leads
good set of drill bits
good set of punches (blunt, edge and center)
a large assortment of "removal" tools-- easy outs, extractors, etx.
a good work bench
a good vice
good lighting
and finally, lots of beer!

for the advanced builder:
seal & bearing driving and removing tools
propane torch
bearing separator
case separator
drive axle bearing knock out punch
gear stack feeler gauges
ring file
engine stand
engine mount remover/installer (you may have to make this tool)

you'll also need:
various sandpapers
lots of cleaners simple green to carb cleaner
many many rags
WD40
PB blaster
and all kinds of grease (hi temp bearing to lith)

best,
-greasy
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Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:27 am quote
also, metric threadfiles. Those are nice to have.


Also, greasy said "hammers" ... i have a rubber mallet and a metal one ... but there's a cool Copper-head mallet that you'll see a lot of mechanics using. I might pick one of those up.

Ditto what he said on "extractors + easy outs". I spent an hour with easy-outs last night removing cracked off bolts that i couldn't remove from a lambretta horncast ( it's going to the blasters today.


When you get more specialized tools that are for a specific engine, it's mostly drifts and punches to knock in/out bearings and oil seals.
Ossessionato
2005 Genuine Stella 150, 2008 Genuine Buddy, 2013 Piaggio BV 350, 2014 Piaggio Fly 150 3v
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Location: Cleveland, Ohio US of A
Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:58 am quote
Great advice guys, thanks! (I'm always learning from Eric and Greasy.)
Addicted
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Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:06 am quote
greasy125 wrote:
to the above add:
jack stand (to hold the ass end up)
heh, he said "jack" and "ass", heh, heh..
Ossessionato
2002 ET4 & 1980 100 Sport
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Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:07 am quote
All of you forgot adding the 12-pack of beer to the tool list.
Addicted
2008 GTSie and 1986 T5
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Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:15 am quote
spock wrote:
All of you forgot adding the 12-pack of beer to the tool list.
Greasy had 'lots of beer' on his list, which I prefer to just a 12-pack.
Hooked
'62 IWL Berlin w/Campi trailer, '68 Vespa SS180
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 120
Location: St. Louis, MO
Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:23 am quote
Morvran wrote:
spock wrote:
All of you forgot adding the 12-pack of beer to the tool list.
Greasy had 'lots of beer' on his list, which I prefer to just a 12-pack.
For Vintage scooter work however, it needs to be a good "workin' man" beer. Such as PBR, Stagg, Falstaff, etc.
None of that hoity-toity khaki & loafer wearin' modern rider microbrew stuff.
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 7263
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:27 pm quote
yeah, i totally skipped the metric tap & die set. the thread file is a nice piece to have as well.

as for hammers, my favorites are: 2lb deadblow, rubber face/plastic face middle weight combo, 20oz copper head, 4oz ball pein and the almighty half-jack (aka BFH). don't laugh about the tiny 4oz ball pein, either. that's the best dammn hammer going!

seriously, you can't have too many hammers, punches, screwdrivers or pliers.

make your investments wisely. if you're building motors regularly then pop for the specialized engine tools-- the drifts and pullers. if you're only doing one or maybe two, you'll probably have a friend help you that's already owns the tools or can get access to them. if that's the case, save you money and buy something nice for your sweetheart-- or another scooter for yourself.

best,
-greasy
Rover Eric wrote:
also, metric threadfiles. Those are nice to have.


Also, greasy said "hammers" ... i have a rubber mallet and a metal one ... but there's a cool Copper-head mallet that you'll see a lot of mechanics using. I might pick one of those up.

Ditto what he said on "extractors + easy outs". I spent an hour with easy-outs last night removing cracked off bolts that i couldn't remove from a lambretta horncast ( it's going to the blasters today.


When you get more specialized tools that are for a specific engine, it's mostly drifts and punches to knock in/out bearings and oil seals.
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 7263
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:31 pm quote
life's too short to drink shitty beer.

besides, you can find good cheap beer at trader joes!

okay, admittedly i'll drink me some silver bullets or some miller lites if they're on some kind of crazy sale-- like 8bux for a 20 rack or some such nonsense-- but only if it's summer and i'm just pounding beer to rehydrate my delicate body.

best,
-greasy
StL_Stadtroller wrote:
For Vintage scooter work however, it needs to be a good "workin' man" beer. Such as PBR, Stagg, Falstaff, etc.
None of that hoity-toity khaki & loafer wearin' modern rider microbrew stuff.
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 7263
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:33 pm quote
spock wrote:
All of you forgot adding the 12-pack of beer to the tool list.
dude, it's in there. only i didn't specify an amount.

c'mon man, you know how i roll!

best,
-greasy
Enthusiast
1960 vbb 150
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 59
Location: ireland
Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:03 pm quote
heay guys , i would love to go on a ralley with you lot, we would offer a great on the side of road break down service,
Hooked
'63 Vespa 150 GL
Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 200
Location: Champaign, Illinois
Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:49 pm quote
I don't think vintage vespas are cheap working man's transportation anymore. Older Japanese scooters or motorcycles, sure. Most consumable parts are cheap enough but admission to the club is pricey. So I'll drink good beer. Although this time of year I don't need cool refreshment in the garage.

I'll add compression tester and timing light to the list.

But keep in mind you don't NEED 3/4 of this stuff, although it's nice to have the right tool for the job instead of making do with the wrong one. Buy good tools as you need them rather than a load of cheap crappy tools all at once. You can also make many specialty tools with some wood and big bolts, washers, etc. and some creativity.
Hooked
'79 P200
Joined: 26 Jul 2006
Posts: 400
Location: Dallas, Texas
Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:47 pm quote
Amen to that brother. I've already got a set of Craftsman sockets, the dremel, 4 or 5 propane torches. (heh, heh....FIRE!) and a handful of screwdrivers. Looks like I'll be shopping for tools soon. Thanks guys.
Quote:
For Vintage scooter work however, it needs to be a good "workin' man" beer. Such as PBR, Stagg, Falstaff, etc.
None of that hoity-toity khaki & loafer wearin' modern rider microbrew stuff.
I have to beg to differ on the beer selection though... all we drink in Dallas is the European stuff that you get in pubs like the Dubliner. Guiness, Stella, whatever ale is on tap, etc. Good strong beer! What can I say. We like good beer.
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1962 GS160mk1, 1963 GS160mk2, 1965 SS180, 1974 Rally 200, wife's LI150
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Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:28 am quote
Yeah, what PS said about not NEEDING a lot of this stuff.

Remember, for daily work and maintenance, all you really need is the standard stuff ...metric wrenches and sockets, screwdrivers, cable lubers, 4th hand tool, funnel for your oil ( i use one of those big plastic syringes )...

A grease gun that can lube on zerg (zerk?) fittings is nice, since all scooters use them.

And one of those $300 harbor freight lifts to get it off the ground when you do any adjustments

-Eric
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Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 558

Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:30 am quote
truth be told, if you duplicated your o.g. vespa tool kit that came with the bike with high quality (craftsman) tools, there ain't a whole lot you can't do on a bike maintenance wise. most of the other stuff mentioned just makes it easier.
Addicted
Vespa LX150 w/mods, 1976 V90 smallie
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Posts: 613
Location: Louisville, KY
Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:58 am quote
Rover Eric wrote:
Yeah, what PS said about not NEEDING a lot of this stuff.

Remember, for daily work and maintenance, all you really need is the standard stuff ...metric wrenches and sockets, screwdrivers, cable lubers, 4th hand tool, funnel for your oil ( i use one of those big plastic syringes )...

A grease gun that can lube on zerg (zerk?) fittings is nice, since all scooters use them.

And one of those $300 harbor freight lifts to get it off the ground when you do any adjustments

-Eric
Nahhhh I kick it old school with the milk crates. You can get the engine in and out no problem.
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Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:03 am quote
I Got Me Parka wrote:
Nahhhh I kick it old school with the milk crates. You can get the engine in and out no problem.
I did milkcrates for years before finally graduating up to a proper lift. Don't get me wrong, i still use a milkcrate on the lift sometimes for propping up the tail end when the rear wheel needs to come off.

You should take Greasy's advice and get car Jackstands. Those will help you immensely if you're still doing milkcrates, as they hold the frame better and don't get in the way like a milkcrate. I'm going to get some soon, just haven't gotten around to it.


-Eric
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Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:16 am quote
Hooked
2005 PX 150 & 1979 P200E
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 100
Location: Spokane, Wa
Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:36 pm quote
I agree with greasy and rover eric on the tools list. I have just about everything they listed. Alot of the sockets, wreches, screw drivers, assorted plyers, side dykes and an air gauge is somethings I carry in my scooters glove box. Oh yeah, a fourth hand tool and extra cables need to be carried in there as well.
Enthusiast
1960 vbb 150
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 59
Location: ireland
Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:53 am quote
anyone think to mention the bible

501_597_175x224_0707cover.jpg

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:58 am quote
while i'm a huge fan of the FSM, i'd hardly mention that as the 'bible'.

granted, more info is better than less info; but bad info is totally useless.

the haynes manuals are passable at best. full of inaccuracies and half baked proceedures.

take them all with a grain of salt.

best,
-greasy
Enthusiast
1960 vbb 150
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 59
Location: ireland
Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:23 am quote
i do agree , but , very handy if you have,nt a clue ,i started my first rebuild with one many years back think i had to split the casings to port for a mallossi 210 or something, and i got on fine , you got to start some where
Resident Grump
MAC motor 2WD. 30 Oct 2006
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 15888
Location: MN
Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:24 am quote
greasy125 wrote:
while i'm a huge fan of the FSM, i'd hardly mention that as the 'bible'.

granted, more info is better than less info; but bad info is totally useless.

the haynes manuals are passable at best. full of inaccuracies and half baked proceedures.

take them all with a grain of salt.

best,
-greasy
Thanks for saving me those $$$$ any suggestions?
Enthusiast
1960 vbb 150
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 59
Location: ireland
Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:42 am quote
try www.scooterhelp.com,i find it good,
all the best paul
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1962 GS160mk1, 1963 GS160mk2, 1965 SS180, 1974 Rally 200, wife's LI150
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Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:51 am quote
I don't think that Greasy is avocating you SHOULDN'T own a copy of the haynes ( red if you've got a p-series, blue if you've got an older one or a smallframe ). I've just never used one for more than torque specification references or something small and specific. I don't read through sections and follow the instructions because they are poorly written and lack full-color pics.

Someone really needs to get cracking and make a full color version of the Sticky's manual. They'd make a fortune, what with all the people rebuilding their own project scooters right now.

Scooterhelp.com and vespamaintenance.com are good, but certainly have their limitations.
Resident Grump
MAC motor 2WD. 30 Oct 2006
Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 15888
Location: MN
Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:43 am quote
Rover Eric wrote:
Someone really needs to get cracking and make a full color version of the Sticky's manual. They'd make a fortune, what with all the people rebuilding their own project scooters right now.

Scooterhelp.com and vespamaintenance.com are good, but certainly have their limitations.
Sticky's manual?
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1962 GS160mk1, 1963 GS160mk2, 1965 SS180, 1974 Rally 200, wife's LI150
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Posts: 6971

Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:22 am quote
louisq wrote:
Sticky's manual?
"The complete spanners workshop manual for Lambretta 'slimstyle' scooters" by Martin 'Sticky' Wood.

It's a fullcolor haynes-esque technical manual produced in the last 3-4 years that has become the Bible of Lambretta. That book alone is such a fantastic resource on how to restore a lambretta that i'd daresay that despite the fact a lambretta is harder to restore ( due to quantity of parts and complexity ), the Sticky manual lays it out so effectively as to make lambretta restoration EASIER than vespa.

There's just nothing like it for vespa.... and that's a serious shame. The haynes manual is the only thing that comes close, and most of us agree that the haynes manual is a turd.
Addicted
'65 sprint, '79 p200, '01 et4 & others that have come and gone.
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Posts: 999
Location: birmingham, al
Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:31 am quote
i got just about all my tools for cheap at big lots and none of them have ever failed me. the best things i ever bought for my scoot was a fourth hand tool to adjust cables and vise grips. they've saved me a bunch of time and frustration.
Sponsor
DL200, TV2, Vega, Lui, GTS
Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 750
Location: Orange, NJ
Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:31 am quote
Rover Eric wrote:
louisq wrote:
Sticky's manual?
"The complete spanners workshop manual for Lambretta 'slimstyle' scooters" by Martin 'Sticky' Wood..
Round. Sticky's last name is Round

There is a Vespa one on the way. In the meantime I recommend the Sausage DVD. aka Scooter Techniques Vespa Running Maintenance DVD. We've started giving them free with every vintage bike we sell to a first time vintage owner. I won't put a link to them on our website, because I am not a sponsor.

Andrea
Enthusiast
1960 vbb 150
Joined: 30 Sep 2007
Posts: 59
Location: ireland
Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:27 pm quote
the vintage scoots you sell are they imports,or are they restored by yourself,sorry if i sound nosey im just interested
thanks paul
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