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Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:55 am quote
Aviator47 wrote:
jess wrote:
Heh. The web page is the easy part. It's the back-end posting and database stuff that takes all the effort.
Well, since it has been almost decades since I have written code (and I was damn good at it in my time) might I innocently suggest that rather than generating a database entry from the web page, simply generate a text page that posts the entries in a defined format for reading. Hit submit, and the fields are transcribed into a sort of "text document" and posted much as if it had been typed in that way to begin with. Might not be good for analysis, but it could still "educate".

Al
It's easy enough to build a form that generates text but for it to be in the forum template and searchable, it has to go into the database as a post to a thread. This will also have the benefits of other posts, such as alerts for subscriptions, ability to reply, notifications for replies and so on.

I think it might be best to just start with the questions. Get them honed, then start a new thread. Though it would be possible to create the form interface, I'm not sure the benefit is that much greater than just putting the questions out there. The responses won't be any more specific or accurate using a form.
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Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:20 pm quote
ericalm wrote:
I think it might be best to just start with the questions. Get them honed, then start a new thread. Though it would be possible to create the form interface, I'm not sure the benefit is that much greater than just putting the questions out there. The responses won't be any more specific or accurate using a form.
Since I'm not a web page designer or programmer, I believe we should focus on educating. I'll leave the techy stuff to you guys. As Jaded mentioned, focus on open ended questions to avoid the yes or no answers. I'm sure there are a lot of low-tech mishaps/accidents threads out there, but the appeal of something more flashy also has its merit.
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Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:20 pm quote
sfarchie wrote:
ericalm wrote:
jess wrote:
sfarchie wrote:
Would adding a section for real MV member accidents be useful?
I'm on the fence about this. It's similar to the discussion we just had on the Tires topic about discussion vs. article, and disparate personal experiences being a difficult subject for a wiki article.
For what it's worth, I think this would make a good thread in General Discussions. The crash report thread on ModernBuddy has been an incredibly useful tool and informative thread, especially since a motivated member compiled crash stats based on the info there.
I understand your concerns, Jess. It really doesn't seem to fit in with the wiki concept.

And I also agree with, ericalm. I know when I read about real accidents it helps me to learn what to do or act as a reminder.

I took my GTS out the other day and I can honestly say I am more aware of my surroundings now after the accident. Perhaps bordering paranoia, but definitely a more alert rider.
I think also some information about proper exchange of information after an accident might be helpful. I know that with changes to privacy laws here, people get caught out thinking that taking a rego number down is enough and then find the police and their insurance company are unable to trace the vehicle's owner... I am guessing this problem is the same in other places???
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Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:56 pm quote
Scooterrific wrote:
sfarchie wrote:
ericalm wrote:
jess wrote:
sfarchie wrote:
Would adding a section for real MV member accidents be useful?
I'm on the fence about this. It's similar to the discussion we just had on the Tires topic about discussion vs. article, and disparate personal experiences being a difficult subject for a wiki article.
For what it's worth, I think this would make a good thread in General Discussions. The crash report thread on ModernBuddy has been an incredibly useful tool and informative thread, especially since a motivated member compiled crash stats based on the info there.
I understand your concerns, Jess. It really doesn't seem to fit in with the wiki concept.

And I also agree with, ericalm. I know when I read about real accidents it helps me to learn what to do or act as a reminder.

I took my GTS out the other day and I can honestly say I am more aware of my surroundings now after the accident. Perhaps bordering paranoia, but definitely a more alert rider.
I think also some information about proper exchange of information after an accident might be helpful. I know that with changes to privacy laws here, people get caught out thinking that taking a rego number down is enough and then find the police and their insurance company are unable to trace the vehicle's owner... I am guessing this problem is the same in other places???
An article on "What to do if…" might be a good idea and will avoid the pitfalls of a crash article.
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:57 am quote
Scooterrific wrote:
I think also some information about proper exchange of information after an accident might be helpful. I know that with changes to privacy laws here, people get caught out thinking that taking a rego number down is enough and then find the police and their insurance company are unable to trace the vehicle's owner... I am guessing this problem is the same in other places???
I would be cautious here, as requirements are established by both states and insurance companies. You need to satisfy both, and there are 50 States and I don't know how many insurance companies. Does MV want to take the responsibility for ensuring that whatever advice it provides will always be spot on, in every state and with every insurance co?

Having lived, ridden, insured and registered vehicles in over a dozen states over the past half century, my advice would be to recommend that a wise rider should obtain an accident report form from their insurance company and their local police, who typically use a state form. That will tell you what both expect you to tell them in case of a mishap, in the format they use. I always had one of each in our document package, along with insurance card and registration. It was the advice my first insurer offered back in 1958, and I've stuck with it since.

Al
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:09 am quote
Aviator47 wrote:
Scooterrific wrote:
I think also some information about proper exchange of information after an accident might be helpful. I know that with changes to privacy laws here, people get caught out thinking that taking a rego number down is enough and then find the police and their insurance company are unable to trace the vehicle's owner... I am guessing this problem is the same in other places???
I would be cautious here, as requirements are established by both states and insurance companies. You need to satisfy both, and there are 50 States and I don't know how many insurance companies. Does MV want to take the responsibility for ensuring that whatever advice it provides will always be spot on, in every state and with every insurance co?

Having lived, ridden, insured and registered vehicles in over a dozen states over the past half century, my advice would be to recommend that a wise rider should obtain an accident report form from their insurance company and their local police, who typically use a state form. That will tell you what both expect you to tell them in case of a mishap, in the format they use. I always had one of each in our document package, along with insurance card and registration. It was the advice my first insurer offered back in 1958, and I've stuck with it since.

Al
Hi Aviator - I meant in terms of on the spot, while you're in shock...not the whole process as there would obviously be lots of variations.

Lisa
Destroyer of Worlds
LML Star 125, Vespa GT200
Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 2010
Location: London, United Kingdom
Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:13 am quote
He's [edit: sorry, she's] not talking about after-the-fact. He's talking about what information to exchange at the scene. That's best left up to each rider's insurance company. We can make some mention, like a reminder to check with the insurance co.

In many jurisdictions, it's entirely legal to just hand the other driver a card with your name, driver's license number, and insurance name and number, then just take off even before police arrive. Whether that's wise or not is best left to people more knowledgeable than I.
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:23 am quote
ericalm wrote:
It's easy enough to build a form that generates text but for it to be in the forum template and searchable, it has to go into the database as a post to a thread. This will also have the benefits of other posts, such as alerts for subscriptions, ability to reply, notifications for replies and so on.

I think it might be best to just start with the questions. Get them honed, then start a new thread. Though it would be possible to create the form interface, I'm not sure the benefit is that much greater than just putting the questions out there. The responses won't be any more specific or accurate using a form.
What I was suggesting was the following:

An option button for a mishap summary generator, somewhere on the top of the basic page, much like ad links.

Clicking on that button would send you to a web page (outside the regular forum structure) that took your mishap info. Upon completing that page and clicking "submit" the material on the page would be transformed into two text streams: A subject line and a text report body. "Submit" would also redirect you back to the "Mishap Summary Forum". A new thread in the mishap forum would then be opened under the member name. The subject line would be inserted as the subject, and the report body text would be inserted in the field where the member normally types their rants and raves. This new thread entry would then be automatically submitted.

It would be more effective in searches, because terminology for categories, wx conditions, etc could be standardized by using radio buttons and drop downs within the report body. Freeform entry would lack this, and is also subject to spelling error. A search for "Night" as a lighting condition won't find "nite" or "nihgt".

Lacking the ability to have the report generator page communicate directly with the forum software, one could create an external report generator web page that would walk you through report generation and place the final report text on the clipboard for pasting into a new thread.

Al
Destroyer of Worlds
LML Star 125, Vespa GT200
Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 2010
Location: London, United Kingdom
Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:26 am quote
The polling feature might be able to be adapted, but I don't think Jess is too keen on taking on another project right now. I'm not going to speak for him, though.

I'm not even sure crash reports belong in the Wiki anyway.
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:42 am quote
Scooterrific wrote:
Hi Aviator - I meant in terms of on the spot, while you're in shock...not the whole process as there would obviously be lots of variations.Lisa
Lisa-

Yes, I understand what you meant. What I meant was that those forms, understood in advance, will tell you the critical info. My insurance company form had a brief list of the urgent info needed "on the spot", with space to write it down, providing a convenient piece of paper to record it on. The rest, you can provide when you finish choking the shit out of the guy who cut in front of you.

Knowing what is expected on the various accident report forms, once the dust settles, also insures you don't overlook something that might sway matters in your favor.

I am always leery of trying to gin up a "one size fits" all piece of advice about something that can be so variable based upon local law and insurance companies. Why take the responsibility for providing info based on our "best guess", when precise local info is so easily found and kept on hand. I know folks who have actually taken the time to extract the "on the spot" info necessary and print a simple fill in the blanks check-list to keep in their vehicle.

Al
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:49 am quote
thefuzzylogic wrote:
The polling feature might be able to be adapted, but I don't think Jess is too keen on taking on another project right now. I'm not going to speak for him, though.

I'm not even sure crash reports belong in the Wiki anyway.
Ian

I was not thinking of it as a wiki element, but a future forum for the purpose of sharing mishap info for lessons learned.

Also, I realize that it's a "wish list" idea, but since the door opened, I offered some suggestions. Hell, I'm retired and am not looking for projects, I can readily understand Jess being reluctant. But, I think it's worth keeping in mind, just in case an energetic soul starts looking for an outlet.

Correct me if I am wrong, but this is a limited access portion of MV, isn't it? I raised the subject only because I thought it could not evoke cries for this feature from the masses.

Al
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:01 am quote
Aviator47 wrote:
Scooterrific wrote:
Hi Aviator - I meant in terms of on the spot, while you're in shock...not the whole process as there would obviously be lots of variations.Lisa
Lisa-

Yes, I understand what you meant. What I meant was that those forms, understood in advance, will tell you the critical info. My insurance company form had a brief list of the urgent info needed "on the spot", with space to write it down, providing a convenient piece of paper to record it on. The rest, you can provide when you finish choking the shit out of the guy who cut in front of you.

Knowing what is expected on the various accident report forms, once the dust settles, also insures you don't overlook something that might sway matters in your favor.

I am always leery of trying to gin up a "one size fits" all piece of advice about something that can be so variable based upon local law and insurance companies. Why take the responsibility for providing info based on our "best guess", when precise local info is so easily found and kept on hand. I know folks who have actually taken the time to extract the "on the spot" info necessary and print a simple fill in the blanks check-list to keep in their vehicle.

Al
I'll take that as a no then.
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Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:28 am quote
Scooterrific wrote:
I'll take that as a no then.
Not a "no" to the subject itself, but a suggestion to consider a different tack. I hold nor expect any "yes" or "no" authority, but try to input towards a consensus, offering the underlying reasons for my input.

As an example of my view, when we first were working on the wiki, I suggested the following "disclaimer", which we agreed upon for the Group Riding Entry"

The following four references are offered as examples of group riding safety protocols. Each represents "A Way" to address group rides. MV leaves it to your group to develop "The Way" you will adopt. MV reminds you that to enjoy a safe group ride, every rider must be on the same sheet of music. Unpredictable behavior can cause mishaps. Thus, we encourage you to develop a Group Ride Guidelines publication covering the aspects of conduct similar to that contained in the samples given below. Design it for the needs of your group, and use it every time your group rides. Review it periodically and keep it up to date with lessons learned. Each and every rider in your group should know, understand and accept his/her responsibilities and the current practices your group has adopted - every time you ride.

I have a fair amount of experience in safety procedure development where it is imperative to adopt "A Way", while still recognizing that there is no singular "The Way". It kinds of spills over into my approach to other areas.

Thus, my answer is not a "no" as such, but "I am leery" of the suggestion as made, as I am not sure we are in a position to identify "The Way", where we can guide folks with "A Way".

Al
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