MP3 500 air filter filling with oil, any ideas why?
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Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Fri Aug 29, 2008 6:49 pm quote
ok, so my dealer put another rubber hose and put a loop into it. Unfortunety his loop was more like one of those loop off ramps on a California freeway. Anyways, when I got home the clear breather hose was full of oil once again. The dealer was not sure what to do. I ended up going to checker auto parts and they had a 10 inch pre-curved radiator hose that was 3/4. Perfect!! It was in the shape of those "support the troops" ribbons people have on their cars. So I slapped that baby on a few minutes ago, it a perfect loop (like a roller coaster ride). I'm going to go take it for a spin on the highway and see how it does. I don't know if I will get accurate results as I am only going to go on a 12 mile jog. But i'll update this post again when I go on a longer trip as to whether or not it stops the oil from making it over to the air filter. Bon Voage
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:07 pm quote
Ok, I am finally getting around to get this picture posted. I have taken two 25 mile round trips at 70 mph non stop. Not a lick of oil in the air filter hose. This took care of my probably, I do believe.

DSCF1777resized.JPG
3/4 inch radiator hose in the shape of a "support the troops" ribbon, or a breast cancer ribbon. No cutting required. It was a perfect fit. Go to checker auto parts to get this fix.

Enthusiast
mp3 500
Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 83
Location: Portland, Oregon
Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:41 pm quote
OK good to know. I have been dealing with this for over a month now. Every weekend I clean all the excess oil out of my filter housing, its getting annoying.

I will head to the auto parts store and pick up the "ribbon" shaped hose this next weekend.

Thanks a lot for posting it
Hooked
Puch SRA150, MP3 400, Moto Guzzi 750 Nevada, BMW K75S
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 264
Location: Glendale AZ (was Albury NSW)
Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:18 pm quote
PDX Rider wrote:
I will head to the auto parts store and pick up the "ribbon" shaped hose this next weekend.
It's just straight hose which is curled around to form a loop, which must be higher than the rest of the hose.

Make sure you get hose which is suitable for oil and fuel, otherwise it will quickly perish. Radiator/heater hose will not normally last in this position.

Cheers

Trevor G
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:34 pm quote
Trevor_G wrote:
PDX Rider wrote:
I will head to the auto parts store and pick up the "ribbon" shaped hose this next weekend.
It's just straight hose which is curled around to form a loop, which must be higher than the rest of the hose.

Make sure you get hose which is suitable for oil and fuel, otherwise it will quickly perish. Radiator/heater hose will not normally last in this position.

Cheers

Trevor G
This is pre-curved hose. It will not kink like a regular hose. Since there is not much heat going through this hose, it should last just fine.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 288
Location: SoCal Orange County
Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:01 pm quote
so by changing this hose the air filter will be free from oil also there will be no fluid collected in the rear bubble drain thingy?? Mine is full right now should I empty it?
Hooked
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 206
Location: Roseville, CA
Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:38 am quote
no touchy
no idiot lights on the dash, no problems driving it, I'm not touching this engine to try to find a problem that may or may not interfere with my driving I may check the oil level now and then though....
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:14 am quote
Re: no touchy
fuoconoob wrote:
no idiot lights on the dash, no problems driving it, I'm not touching this engine to try to find a problem that may or may not interfere with my driving I may check the oil level now and then though....
If your not having any problems, then don't bother with it. I however was having some issues with a sluggish engine and a constant ... pup pup pup pup as I slowed to a stop (something that should only happen the first 400 or so miles). Plus I was going through oil like crazy. Now my engine is strong, my mpg is up and the pup pup pup is reduced to almost nothing.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
RIP: MP3 500 - Brutto Moto
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 5278
Location: Austin, TX
Wed Sep 03, 2008 6:12 am quote
Part #
Got a source and part# for that hose? Might save a bit of time for others - some parts guys are patient and like the challenge of helping - others not so much.
Addicted
Stella and a Fuoco
Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 869
Location: New Mexico
Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:45 am quote
ugh, i went to checker auto parts website...you can't search for radiator hoses, you have to search by model and year of car...absolutely useless...

will have to try in person...

a model number would be greatly appreciated...if you kept the receipt

thanks

g
Addicted
Stella and a Fuoco
Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 869
Location: New Mexico
Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:26 am quote
mmm, well i was thinking of putting this on as a precaution...i don't have much oil use, i don't get bad mileage, and i don't have any oil in my site glass...

but i am getting a bit more putt putt at slow down...nothing horrid, but more than before...

i did go on a camping trip and was doing some dirt roads at good speed...maybe my air filter is just dirty

still might do the loop hose just as a preventative maintenance thing

g
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 288
Location: SoCal Orange County
Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:43 pm quote
where do I place this hose exactly? I cleaned out my airfilter and it was soaked with oil. Drainged the Bubble and the tube and i am going to go out and buy the hose but where is this exactly located. Is this under the Air Filter?
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:16 pm quote
it's on the opposite side of the air filter. Directly under the mud flap there is a hose that comes off the top of the crank case and over to the air box. You'll see it. I'll try to get a part number for the hose.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:19 pm quote
Part Number
Part number as on receipt: PA 8573610 GDY MOLDED HOSE S63017
Veni, Vidi, Posti
RIP: MP3 500 - Brutto Moto
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 5278
Location: Austin, TX
Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:43 pm quote
Re: Part Number
hepworth wrote:
Part number as on receipt: PA 8573610 GDY MOLDED HOSE S63017
Thanks bud! Bookmarked! I gotta check my filter and "bulb" tomorrow - went for an after work ride and it started to sputter on me. I figured "=great - didn't bring my cell phone". But I goosed it and it cleared up. Better to be proactive on these things...
Enthusiast
mp3 500
Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 83
Location: Portland, Oregon
Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:12 pm quote
Re: Part Number
hepworth wrote:
Part number as on receipt: PA 8573610 GDY MOLDED HOSE S63017
Thanks a lot. I have to clean mine out every two weeks, and its not just the bulb that is full. I usually wind up squeezing a good amount of oil out of my filter, and adding a good amount to the Engine. I can tell when it is getting saturated as I loose power.

So this weekend i am going to install the hose and hope for the best.

Thanks again for posting the part number
Veni, Vidi, Posti
RIP: MP3 500 - Brutto Moto
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 5278
Location: Austin, TX
Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:13 pm quote
JIMC weigh in
So maybe Jim will see his name in vain and weigh in on this. My understanding is that this is the crankcase breather system - part of pollution control. Apparently there's a lot of crankcase misting from the churning and the looped pipe acts as a trap so the oil won't make it all the way up to the breather which gets a bit saturated at which point the overflow fills the bulb. That cover it?
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 288
Location: SoCal Orange County
Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:12 pm quote
Re: JIMC weigh in
BubbaJon wrote:
So maybe Jim will see his name in vain and weigh in on this. My understanding is that this is the crankcase breather system - part of pollution control. Apparently there's a lot of crankcase misting from the churning and the looped pipe acts as a trap so the oil won't make it all the way up to the breather which gets a bit saturated at which point the overflow fills the bulb. That cover it?
That sounds like it make sense. Also if anyone has done this mod and has had it for a good week, have you notice a difference? I emptied the bulb and the drain tube and cleaned my filter and now the tube is filled but the buld is empty. I am hoping to pick up the tube by the end of this week. But I would like to see if it's working out for everyone
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:04 am quote
200 mile trip tonight. 75-80 mph the entire time. Not a drop of oil in the hose. My MPG were horrible though. That must have been due to the high speeds. I hope so or I'm in a world of hurt in town.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 288
Location: SoCal Orange County
Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:49 pm quote
I had the loop hose installed and no more oil in the bubble or in the drain tube
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Sun Sep 07, 2008 4:48 pm quote
Back from a 530 mile trip this weekend. 75-80 all the way....with a one time down the hill at 105 on the speedo. Still no oil in the hose. I believe we have a winning mod.
Hooked
Puch SRA150, MP3 400, Moto Guzzi 750 Nevada, BMW K75S
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 264
Location: Glendale AZ (was Albury NSW)
Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:39 am quote
hepworth wrote:
This is pre-curved hose. It will not kink like a regular hose. Since there is not much heat going through this hose, it should last just fine.
The problem is that, unless the hose is designed for oil or gas contact (and a radiator hose is not normally oil resistant) it will perish from contact with the oil and its fumes.

Just keep an eye on it...it might take years to crack, though.

Cheers

Trevor G
Veni, Vidi, Posti
RIP: MP3 500 - Brutto Moto
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 5278
Location: Austin, TX
Mon Sep 08, 2008 4:49 am quote
True enough
Trevor_G wrote:
The problem is that, unless the hose is designed for oil or gas contact (and a radiator hose is not normally oil resistant) it will perish from contact with the oil and its fumes.

Just keep an eye on it...it might take years to crack, though.
Absolutely correct - two points to add on that subject:
1) The hose will typically crumble making it a intake hazard.
2) Oil/gasoline vapors + heat makes it happen a lot faster than you'd think.

My solution (one I will personally do when I get the hose) is to coat the innerds with silicone RTV. Just squirt a big old blob in one end and then use a flexible rod with a small rag on the end to swab the insides. I used a flyswatter handle the last time I did this. Not uncommon to use radiator hose for breather hose replacement. Anyway - the silicone is oil and gas resistant and stays flexible. If the hose has already been exposed to oil vapors then clean first as best as you can and also use some fine grit sandpaper to rough up the insides. Since this hose is shaped in a loop it may be necessary to come in from both sides or use a string to pull the rag swab through the hose. Anyway - you get the idea, protect the hose with RTV.
Hooked
Puch SRA150, MP3 400, Moto Guzzi 750 Nevada, BMW K75S
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 264
Location: Glendale AZ (was Albury NSW)
Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:36 am quote
Re: True enough
BubbaJon wrote:
My solution (one I will personally do when I get the hose) is to coat the innerds with silicone RTV. .
You're some genius if you can do that to a curved hose?

Auto parts stores like Pep Boys must surely sell breather hose - I can just walk into an aussie store and get the size you would need.

When curving a non-curved hose, you can take out any kinks that might occur by fitting a hose clamp (screw variety is best) to the kinked area and tightening until the clamp deforms the kink back into a semblance of roundness.

I've done it before...

Cheers

Trevor G

PS Otherwise the heater/radiator hose could last for years - it just depends on who made it, and where!

The important thing to remember with breather hoses like this is that they suck in air as well as blow out fumes/oil mist.

You cannot afford to have a cracked or broken hose, because apart from dropping oil all over your beautiful underside of the bike, and the cylinder head/crankcase, you will end up sucking unfiltered air and dirt into the engine.

The breather system is a two-way pump.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
RIP: MP3 500 - Brutto Moto
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 5278
Location: Austin, TX
Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:50 am quote
Re: True enough
Trevor_G wrote:
BubbaJon wrote:
My solution (one I will personally do when I get the hose) is to coat the innerds with silicone RTV. .
You're some genius if you can do that to a curved hose?
LOL - nawww. Probably more like a bumblebee which doesn't know it can't possibly fly according to aerospace engineers. Last one I coated was a 3/8" U bend with about a 3" radius.I used a piece of twine and a small piece of rag. Put the string through the hose, tie rag on end, squirt a big blob of silicone in the hose, pull rag through hose slowly. I did that one twice to make sure of coverage but with a big enough blob of RTV you can be pretty sure it will get coated as it pushes the blob in front of the rag. I would imagine given a very patient parts person you could possibly find a breather hose that would work, but most are not very cooperative on such a low priced part. Loops are actually pretty uncommon - bends are pretty common and in fact my '09 500 has a vertical bend in the hose we're discussing. Not much of a bend mind you - the rise is about 1". No oil in my bulb so far but I have yet to take it to high speed.
Hooked
MP3 400-THMP3R
Joined: 07 Dec 2007
Posts: 478
Location: Atlanta
Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:17 am quote
As with most of my posts, this is just thinking outloud.

If you had a straight piece of breather hose that you wanted to put a loop in, it would seem to me to be easy enough to pick up a length of spring to act as a sleeve around the tube to prevent kinking. No need for special looped hose parts. Thoughts?
Veni, Vidi, Posti
RIP: MP3 500 - Brutto Moto
Joined: 10 Jun 2008
Posts: 5278
Location: Austin, TX
Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:46 am quote
Nope
Glow Guy wrote:
As with most of my posts, this is just thinking outloud.

If you had a straight piece of breather hose that you wanted to put a loop in, it would seem to me to be easy enough to pick up a length of spring to act as a sleeve around the tube to prevent kinking. No need for special looped hose parts. Thoughts?
Nope - it has to be inside the tube to prevent kinking. =
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:18 pm quote
I tried to find a spring but could not find one to my liking.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 288
Location: SoCal Orange County
Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:58 pm quote
Well did a pre ride check and my bulb and the front drainage tube is filled with fluid again. I'm not sure if its oil or whatever but they are both filled and I have the loop hose mod done on it. I mainly drive freeways do you think that can be the issue? Please help me out cause I hate draining it and cleaning the filter cause I really don't have time. Do you think I should take it to the dealer?
Hooked
ScooterTrap.com
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 483
Location: Orlando, FL
Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:43 am quote
I have my new engine (yeah!) and have not had the oil in the airbox yet. I have just about hit the break in mileage again (600 miles) and still nothing. I will do all the standard maintenance this weekend and keep an eye on the bulb and run-off hose.

If you have done loop and are still getting oil in the bulb, you may want to check your air filter to make sure you didn't over oil it. It doesn't take much run off to fill that little bulb. If the run-off hose is full, then you definitely have a problem.

Matt C.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:14 am quote
Make sure that when you do drain your hose, you let it sit for a whiles with out the plug. The first time I drained it and put the loop in, I had about and inch and a half of oil in it. I thought the loop didn't work. The oil was actually residue in the hose that continued to drain down. Hmm...that wouldn't cause the bulb to fill though so not sure there.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 288
Location: SoCal Orange County
Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:18 am quote
is this actually engine oil or what kind of fluid is it?
Ossessionato
2013 Can Am Spyder RSS
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 2520
Location: Olympia, WA
Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:39 am quote
Breather Hose
sh1bby69 wrote:
is this actually engine oil or what kind of fluid is it?
It's a combination of things, always seems to be oil mist with water vapor mixed in (maybe some gas??). Since I did the loop on my GTS my air cleaner box is dry. I've tried to drain the looped breather hose ....maybe one drop of something will comes out.
Hooked
2009 Piaggio MP3 400ie
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: Austin TX
Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:32 pm quote
MP3'ers,

Is it possible that a recent problem that has cropped up (air filter filling with oil) is due to an engine break-in style that is a bit too easy?

If the two upper rings of the piston are not becoming fully seated near as well as they could be, I would think that this would result in misted oil from the crankcase getting up into the combustion chamber and unburned misted fuel down into the crankcase.

If you'll notice with the original poster's comment:
Quote:
I was very easy on it for the first 600 miles and after that I really do not ride it hard.
In the above post Turkman indicated that the fluid filling the bulb:
Quote:
always seems to be oil mist with water vapor mixed in (maybe some gas??)
Whaddya think?

chris
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Reprehensible Misinformant
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Posts: 7560
Location: Winchester, California
Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:40 pm quote
onsiteaudio wrote:
MP3'ers,

Is it possible that a recent problem that has cropped up (air filter filling with oil) is due to an engine break-in style that is a bit too easy?

If the two upper rings of the piston are not becoming fully seated near as well as they could be, I would think that this would result in misted oil from the crankcase getting up into the combustion chamber and unburned misted fuel down into the crankcase.

If you'll notice with the original poster's comment:
Quote:
I was very easy on it for the first 600 miles and after that I really do not ride it hard.
In the above post Turkman indicated that the fluid filling the bulb:
Quote:
always seems to be oil mist with water vapor mixed in (maybe some gas??)
Whaddya think?

chris
Turkman's scooter was broken-in nearly 30,000 miles ago.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Neutrino MP3 492.7 AK, 2013 Moto Guzzi Norge
Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 20976
Location: Kingston, Tennessee, Tn
Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:01 pm quote
i don't ride mine easy and no problems here
Hooked
Puch SRA150, MP3 400, Moto Guzzi 750 Nevada, BMW K75S
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 264
Location: Glendale AZ (was Albury NSW)
Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:37 pm quote
Glow Guy wrote:
If you had a straight piece of breather hose that you wanted to put a loop in, it would seem to me to be easy enough to pick up a length of spring to act as a sleeve around the tube to prevent kinking. No need for special looped hose parts. Thoughts?
That's an excellent thought.

The spring will work fine around the outside diameter of the hose, it does not need to be inside the hose to prevent kinking.

One mod I have used to stop hoses kinking is an external clamp just on the kink to change the way the hose wants to deform - it works. A spring should do a really good job, if you can get one the right size. An alternative, but not as good, is to use zip ties at the kink(s).

Cheers

Trevor G
Hooked
Puch SRA150, MP3 400, Moto Guzzi 750 Nevada, BMW K75S
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 264
Location: Glendale AZ (was Albury NSW)
Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:45 pm quote
sh1bby69 wrote:
Well did a pre ride check and my bulb and the front drainage tube is filled with fluid again. I'm not sure if its oil or whatever but they are both filled and I have the loop hose mod done on it. I mainly drive freeways do you think that can be the issue? Please help me out cause I hate draining it and cleaning the filter cause I really don't have time. Do you think I should take it to the dealer?
Have you checked that:

1) the loop in the hose is vertical, and above the entry and exit points, as shown in the photo above?

2) You have the correct grade and amount of oil in the crankcase? The dipstick must be screwed all the way in and then removed and checked again, after first wiping off any oil. Excess oil will be blown out via the breather system

3) Is there just a little oil in the drain bulb, or is the filter element saturated as well? A little oil in the drain bulb is not a really big issue, unless the element is also saturated.

4) Some oil can also drain out of the engine while it is on its side, as recently happened to you, I believe.

All the best

Trevor G
Lurker
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Chandler, AZ
Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:31 am quote
brlowe wrote:
The clear bulb on the back is not the only drain, there is also a long tube in the dront that hangs down but has a plug in it. That one will fill up first then when it is full the rear bulb will fill up. I will have about 150 miles on mine by this weekend and see how it is doing then.
Did you ever get your scoot to stop leaking? What did the dealer say about it?
Lurker
Piaggio MP3 500
Joined: 02 Apr 2009
Posts: 4
Location: Chandler, AZ
Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:40 am quote
MP3 oil leak woes- is it time for a recall?
I purchased my MP3 500 at the end of October 08. It has leaked oil since the beginning. At first it was just some oil in the bulb. Now, it leaks 30 mls per 100 miles. It's been in the shop 4 times for the same thing. It's total shop time is over 5 weeks.

I recently took a MP3 500 rental up to the Grand Canyon for a ride with friends. After 700 miles the bulb was full (I didn't drain it because I wanted the dealer to see it) and the dipstick was DRY! I had to put in 750cc oil so that I could continue with the ride for another 150 miles. The oil light did not illuminate.

Two scoots with the same problem. I would love to hear from the rest of you what your dealers and Piaggio did for you. I have read the threads with those of you who have modified your own bikes, but I feel that this is a manufacturer's defect. Your thoughts and experiences?
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