Check your 500 for this hose issue-easy fix
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Ossessionato
Mp3 500
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 2302
Location: Denver Colorado
Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:29 am quote
Its easy to lose important info in the crush of posts here, so
if you didn't see this in the "crap-broke down" thread, here
it is again-and thanks to Hepworth for pointing it out! :
Look above and between the wheels ( best seen from the riders left side)
and you can see a major hose coming from the radiator that is
resting against the housing of the fan. Look to see if it is cutting
into the hose. Both of our 500s hoses were in the process of being
cut into. Yours likely is as well. Mine was close to being cut through
and I would have been spewing antifreeze soon.
If so, find something to get between the two items that will prevent
it from further damage. You can see in my photo the curved piece of
heavy plastic i wedged in there. Easy fix.

hose damage.jpg

Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 218
Location: West Chester, PA
Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:32 am quote
I'll have to check this out...thanks.
Enthusiast
MP3 250
Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 90
Location: Escondido, CA
Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:40 am quote
Where was it you need to look to check this, and are you sure it's specific to the 500s? At this point I'm trying to get proactive about these things and would like to make sure there isn't something similar happening on my 250!
Ossessionato
Mp3 500
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 2302
Location: Denver Colorado
Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:43 am quote
I am not sure about the 250s. I am thinking it is only the 500s.
Molto Verboso
PX200E X 2
Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 1934
Location: Lake Monticello
Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:29 pm quote
how bout the 400s
Addicted
That One!
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 508
Location: On The Left
Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:24 pm quote
Re: Check your 500 for this issue-easy fix
Rob In Denver wrote:
Its easy to lose important info in the crush of posts here, so
if you didn't see this in the "crap-broke down" thread, here
it is again-and thanks to Hepworth for pointing it out! :
Look above and between the wheels ( best seen from the riders left side)
and you can see a major hose coming from the radiator that is
resting against the housing of the fan. Look to see if it is cutting
into the hose. Both of our 500s hoses were in the process of being
cut into. Yours likely is as well. Mine was close to being cut through
and I would have been spewing antifreeze soon.
If so, find something to get between the two items that will prevent
it from further damage. You can see in my photo the curved piece of
heavy plastic i wedged in there. Easy fix.
Damn Rob & Hepworth, You're The Men of the Month (Day).

Don't even pause about checking, if you have a 500, you probably have this situation, maybe Fuocos in UK too.

I have taken more pics of my MP3 symptoms than Pamela Anderson (we dated).

Here they are (MP3 not Pamela) where hose contacts back of fan motor:

I will be wrapping with hose sleeve.

Thanks Rob & Hepworth (send to Piaggio for R&D credit)


Ciao
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:18 pm quote
wow, get that fixed quick. Maybe even get a new hose under warranty, that looks deep.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 36653
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:37 pm quote
There's no maybe about a new hose under warranty. It's a certainty. get it done.

While any bike is new, make the warranty work for you - if nothing else it ensures they tighten up manufacturing procedures to cut the warranty issues, complaints and costs. Win-win.
Hooked
ScooterTrap.com
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 483
Location: Orlando, FL
Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:49 pm quote
I can't seem to figure out the location of the view.... could you pan out a bit to give us a better idea of the location?

Matt C.
Ossessionato
Mp3 500
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 2302
Location: Denver Colorado
Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:53 pm quote
I went by my dealer to talk about the hose, but the place
was bedlam.
I will try it again next week. They are good guys, just a bit run over by the scooter demand of late. Little doubt most 500s will have
this issue. luckily its an easy prevention, but looks to be a pain
in the rear to change out the hose if it gets as far gone as mine.

As far as the 250s and 400s, I don't believe they share the same
parts in this area, but I don't have ones to look at, so how to know?
Get yourselves out under your bikes and see if you can see something!
I am a mechanical nimwit and even I could see it.
Ossessionato
Mp3 500
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 2302
Location: Denver Colorado
Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:05 pm quote
manfetti wrote:
I can't seem to figure out the location of the view.... could you pan out a bit to give us a better idea of the location?

Matt C.
Matt, squat down by the left front tire and look over the tire
and into the area where the radiator is. You should see the rear
of the radiator fan housing, with a thick hose probably hard up
against it. Thats where the wear will be. Push the hose back a little
to get a better look.
here is what you should see if in the position above.

hose damage 2.jpg

Hooked
ScooterTrap.com
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 483
Location: Orlando, FL
Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:16 pm quote
Got it now!! Nice find!! I have added some protectant as well to prevent puncture and will be passing this along to Piaggio for further review.

Matt C.
Addicted
That One!
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 508
Location: On The Left
Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:28 pm quote
Rob's pic in perspective
Rob's pic in perspective
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 485
Location: Capitola, California
Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:38 pm quote
Checked my hose/fan proximity. Plenty of clearance on both sides. No problem at all.

88
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:22 pm quote
Here is what I ended up doing for my fix. Of course fixing it with rubber will mean I have to eventually do it again, but that is ok. It holds nice with the zip ties and fits nicely to the coolant hose.

Latest Picture 327.JPG

Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:25 pm quote
88andstillriding wrote:
Checked my hose/fan proximity. Plenty of clearance on both sides. No problem at all.

88
I just wanted to ask, are your hoses in a different configuration? It seems like there is very little room to space the hose away because of the other hose behind it as well as the steel tube. Would you mind taking a photo of your hoses, maybe those of us with this issue could rework our hoses. Thanks.
Sir Frets-A-Lot
Vespa GT250ie/L, Honda Ruckus 50, Honda NT700V, Honda CB125
Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 11198
Location: Bee eff eee.
Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:26 pm quote
my hose is like that... looks like I"ll have to get something to fix this...
Addicted
That One!
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 508
Location: On The Left
Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:30 pm quote
Is it Heat or Friction? (Bear with me)
Is the fan motor, when it's hot, melting an impression (divot) in the hose, or is it friction?
Might help others to determine what is better to put between the two.

I used Rob & Hepworth's excellent pics and repair to illustrate a question:


Are we better off covering hose from contact with fan motor (A),
or pulling it away from contact (B) [I've photoshopped a larger zip to demonstrate option (B).


2nd photo supposes a better hose position strapped away from motor, inside cowling. With red denoting current hose position.

I'm just a photoshopping theorist, I need mechanics/engineers to answer these questions.
(Be nice, or I'll put your head on a donkey)


Ciao
Hooked
GTS250ie, Fuoco 500
Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 111
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW Australia
Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:39 am quote
Thanks for that. My Australian delivered Fuoco had the same problem even though there's a thin plastic sleeve covering the rub area.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 36653
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:55 am quote
It's not heat wearing it through, just vibration and abrasion. Just checked mine, and yes it was badly worn. Another one for the PDI check...

Piaggio UK informed, at least one dealer has ordered some spare hoses in anticipation.
Ossessionato
Mp3 500
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 2302
Location: Denver Colorado
Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:18 am quote
One of the guys at Sportique scooters thought pulling it away
with a zip tie would be a good idea.
This one guy also suggested there was likely no danger of the
slit bursting under pressure, so maybe did not need to be changed
out. I think changing it makes sense, ( though with a huge backlog
of scooters to work on, that may take a while).
John, we would miss your photoshop skills if you left us!
Addicted
MP3 Piaggio 2007
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Austin, Texas
Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:37 am quote
Hose fixins
+1 for John
Addicted
That One!
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 508
Location: On The Left
Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:13 am quote
(Thanks everyone)

I followed hose up to radiator with my fingers and didn't feel a clamp.
I'm wondering with all us novices pulling at this hose, can it pull away from radiator?


Ciao
Hooked
MP3 500 , passion red
Joined: 17 Apr 2008
Posts: 154
Location: oregon
Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:36 am quote
Mine appears to have an extra sleeve on it already and at least 1/8" clearance.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 36653
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:39 am quote
It does have an extra sleeve - but was completely chewed through on mine!
Enthusiast
MP3 400ie
Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Posts: 67
Location: Nottingham UK
Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:41 am quote
checked mine
Just checked mine, a uk model Gilera500 not rubbing as yet, but I can see the problem, mine has a 3mm gap at its closest point, but its brand spanking new, so not done enought to rub yet.
I'l be keeping an eye on it, thanx guys.
Member
Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 10
Location: OHIO
Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:43 am quote
!! Great find, Thanks for Sharing !!
Sure enough, same issue with my 500. Fix was quick enough, thanks to your pictures. Also went ahead and wrapped the hose at other end (upper left), where hose comes in contact with frame. Sorry, but you can not see it in any of the posted pics ... just follow the hose and you will see possible friction zone.
Addicted
That One!
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 508
Location: On The Left
Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:47 pm quote
Thanks for the heads-up, Hepworth & Rob in Denver!
Thanks for the heads-up, Hepworth & Rob in Denver!

This started as a post from Hepworth, Rob posted a fix and now we have brought attention to something we can correct easily
and Piaggio USA can add to their PDI "Pre-delivery Inspection" (My PDI cost $485).

Moving on...

I decided to zip-tie it instead of wrapping etc

.08 cents later, Voila! (it's what the French said when THEY defeated Germany in WW2)

cc: Paolo Timoni Piaggio USA, Ken Zugbaum Vespa of CA (Sherman Oaks)
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Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:02 pm quote
I think you need something between the hose and tight wrap

WayneB
Addicted
That One!
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 508
Location: On The Left
Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:20 pm quote
Wayne B wrote:
I think you need something between the hose and tight wrap
WayneB
Thanks. I have considered that, which is why I say, keep and eye on it.
Too tight on a hose that gets hot, could have new problems.
What did you do, I didn't see your posted repair?

It's not tight like a Garrote, strangulating the hose or cutting into rubber.
Instead, it is like a gentle sling, supporting the hose.
I can still push the hose and it moves a little in it's support.
I would say, to each - his own, until Piaggio comments.
If you haven't done anything yet, there are many ideas: sleeves, slings, etc/
I got an email from a guy that cut a little square of tire inner-tube patch and glued it over "wear" area.
It looks good, and provides extra thickness for where it contacts.
In the meantime, the zip could go around a sleeve or piece of something on the hose, then around frame tube.

"The internet... where great minds meet"


None of these repairs or suggestions exceed dealer's advice.

Ciao
Member
MP3 500
Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Bay Area, ca
Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:08 am quote
Easy fix already done at factory
I read the post on an easy fix for mp3 scoots. I went right out and checked my 500 and found it had been done at factory. I have just 120 miles on my ride today. I thought to give you all a picture of what it looked like. Love the post hope more people use it.
**UPDATE**
Last 4 of vin are 0402 - purchased at Rockridge Two Wheels - Oakland - CA
The heat shrink is around the zip tie - and is in fact a broad Zip tie. I will ask if they did this fix in prep before I picked it up. Glad it helped.

Factory tie back left side.jpg
This is stock and had plenty of room

Factory tie back right side.jpg
Note the zip tie (most likely take from these posts :-)) but with the heat shrink wrap that has not been heated. So it acts like an insulator.



Last edited by Pieraldi on Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
Addicted
That One!
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 508
Location: On The Left
Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:42 am quote
Re: Easy fix already done at factory
Pieraldi wrote:
I read the post on an easy fix for mp3 scoots. I went right out and checked my 500 and found it had been done at factory. I have just 120 miles on my ride today. I thought to give you all a picture of what it looked like. Love the post hope more people use it.
It could be factory or PDI instruction, There is NO WAY of knowing.
If we were real good, we would make it a rule to include miles, purchased date, dealer, and last 4 vin# to create some sort of quality control tracking.

I'm not seeing the heat sink wrap, it looks like ours, but I'll take your word.
What I do see, is a fat round zip-tie (better than sharp edge) and it looks like both the hoses have been professionally positioned
with 1 zip-tie to "Y" along the frame post. It's clear that Hose 1 runs up left and Hose 2 runs up Right, and both are in 1 zip-tie; correct?

Very nice. I am assuming if someone took the time to remove that cowling, they could do the job right.

Thanks Pieraldi, nice pics.

Last edited by johnwwwatson on Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:57 am; edited 2 times in total
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:47 am quote
As far as your pics pieraldi, my bike came straight from factory as well, without that fix. I also noticed in your picture that the one of the hoses is moved completely out of the way. Where as mine and others whose pictures are posted have the main hose and then another hose behind it. I guess I need to go outside and see if I can''t move them around abit to make more room.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 03 May 2008
Posts: 174
Location: Costa Mesa, CA
Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:03 pm quote
I checked mine this morning and it is rubbing also. After 1800 miles it is worn but not to the point of replacement. I used 2 tie wraps and pulled it about a quarter inch away. I will keep an eye on it.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 109
Location: Phoenix
Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:10 am quote
Would some sort of bungee material work? It would be less abrasive.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 252
Location: GSO, NC
Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:34 am quote
jimc wrote:
It's not heat wearing it through, just vibration and abrasion.
Never thought I'd disagree with you on something like this but after seeing it in person on my own I have to say it's heat. The hose is right against the fan motor- you know that gets hot, as does any electric motor. I've only had the thing less than a month, not even 1K miles. It's not had time to get a wound like that through vibration. The edges are smooth and slightly bubbled w/no signs of abrasion, etc...
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 36653
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:43 am quote
The fan rarely comes on - and if it got hot enough to soften the plastic protector its own casing would be compromised. The hose itself is much hotter than the fan. Definitely not a heat problem.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 15 May 2008
Posts: 252
Location: GSO, NC
Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:22 am quote
Fair enough. Cheers!
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 11 May 2008
Posts: 119
Location: Vacaville
Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:59 am quote
WOW I sure am glad I read this forum. My 500 has 215 miles on it and this hose is 1/3 of the way cut through. For now I am good with a zip tie, but when I go in for my 600 mile tune up Iíll see what the dealer says. Thanks for posting this! It would be a serious bummer to find out miles from home stranded and standing on the side of the road.


John
Ossessionato
Mp3 500
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 2302
Location: Denver Colorado
Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:23 pm quote
Well, my makeshift fix (see photo on first post) has fallen out after about 100 miles,
I thought it was wedged tight enough to hold but was wrong,
there must be quite a bit of vibrating going on. I will look into the zip tie.
NEVER copy any of my inept mechanical repairs!!
You have been fairly warned!
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