Your experences carrying extra gas?
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Hooked
Joined: 06 Jul 2008
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:44 am quote
Have read through all the posts regarding carrying gas cans.

Because I'm planning some cross-country on my GTS 250, I stopped by a dealer's parts dept yesterday and looked at plastic thin-profile types, figuring to bungee-cord it down between my feet on the floorboard, probably using the eyebolts suggested in another thread.

Not to flog a dead horse, but may I ask what has been the real-world experience of folks who've done this? The parts guy opined that it was "insane", and a guarantee to become a moving fireball - looked safe enough to me, but what do I know?

Not interested in the heavy metal type plumbed into the fuel tank, and don't want to lose rack space needed for luggage - would just like a couple of gallons aboard for when I hit the long lonely stretches...

TIA, Dudes and Dudettes,
Dt
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:55 am quote
The only one I have carried is this:

http://www.backcountry.com/store/PMS0010/Primus-Fuel-Bottle.html

and it has worked quite well, and since it does not vent, at all, it does not let out any vapor. Gas vapor is the scary-it-will-explode-like-a-bomb part of carrying gas. A canister that is meant to contain everything, including the vapor, is not so "scary." I just bungee netted one of these between my canvas topcase/bag and myself. just above the back of the seat, but to the topcase, so I could get the seat open. So far I have not had to use it, but I was glad it was there a few times.
Molto Verboso
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:59 am quote
Re: Your experences carrying extra gas?
du Tabac wrote:
The parts guy opined that it was "insane", and a guarantee to become a moving fireball - looked safe enough to me, but what do I know?
I'd agree with him.

can you not plan your trip around refueling points - on the open road I reckon you should be able to do at least 200km between fills - so a distance of 150k for planning should see you right.

How much extra would you carry - a couple of litres or maybe 5?

Not worth the risk!
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:10 am quote
Wait, are we talking about nitro glycerin or something?
In a proper container, gasoline is not THAT crazy to carry. Your gas tank is not a magic container that calms and soothes the gasoline as you ride. it is a gas can, with a vent, made to fit in the space allotted. Somehow you ride around and do not become a super-death-trap-fireball-nightmare-tornado-explosion-disaster-mobile... Of course you need to treat the stuff with respect, as it is flammable (duh), but it wont just "bite you" for no reason.
Hooked
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:14 am quote
Hmmm. Points well made. I really like to get off the beaten path, so I guess I'd need four of these ventless bottles, each only semi-filled (to allow for expansion) to have about a gallon aboard.

Bungee net on the front rack might work for that - or a one-off narrow "bottle rack" for the floorboard...Hmmm...

How big is the filler cap on those bottles? Sizeable enough to permit filling from a gas pump nozzle?
Hooked
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:19 am quote
Joel Hamilton wrote:
Wait, are we talking about nitro glycerin or something?
In a proper container, gasoline is not THAT crazy to carry. Your gas tank is not a magic container that calms and soothes the gasoline as you ride. it is a gas can, with a vent, made to fit in the space allotted. Somehow you ride around and do not become a super-death-trap-fireball-nightmare-tornado-explosion-disaster-mobile... Of course you need to treat the stuff with respect, as it is flammable (duh), but it wont just "bite you" for no reason.
Lol, Joel!

Say, the GTS' gas tank is plastic AND vented, yes? Can venting fumes ever cause problems in the confined compartment space?

I was just thinking that a proper plastic 2-gallon can freely venting to the open air on a moving bike would probably be ok, but I don' t really know...
Molto Verboso
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:26 am quote
Joel Hamilton wrote:
Wait, are we talking about nitro glycerin or something?
In a proper container, gasoline is not THAT crazy to carry. Your gas tank is not a magic container that calms and soothes the gasoline as you ride. it is a gas can, with a vent, made to fit in the space allotted. Somehow you ride around and do not become a super-death-trap-fireball-nightmare-tornado-explosion-disaster-mobile... Of course you need to treat the stuff with respect, as it is flammable (duh), but it wont just "bite you" for no reason.
True, but the gas tank is also within the frame, so has some protection. And is designed to carry fuel for that motor bike.

So, now you wanna strap fuel onto the bike elsewhere where it likely to be either;
a - crushed
b - thrown around.
and so have the potential to increase the severity of an accident?

Is there really the need to carry the extra fuel?

is 8 litres of extra fuel really needed?

If I was to travel across the nullarbor- maybe, but I can travel almost everywhere else and be safely within the range of the fuel that the bike can carry.

Last edited by Twin01 on Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:26 am quote
Joel Hamilton wrote:
+1 on the hiking/camping fuel bottle. I use the same thing, possibly different brand (whatever they sell at REI). Very sturdy. I'd leave a little air-gap just to make room for expansion.
du Tabac wrote:
I was just thinking that a proper plastic 2-gallon can freely venting to the open air on a moving bike would probably be ok, but I don' t really know...
You know the military style motorcycles and jeeps have gas cans hanging off them in the open air. I don't see how this would be a big problem. The only thing I wouldn't do is mount them on the front. In the off-chance of an accident that is the most likely place that you will impact.
Molto Verboso
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:29 am quote
Joel Hamilton wrote:
Wait, are we talking about nitro glycerin or something?
.
in the right conditions.........
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:29 am quote
Twin01 wrote:
So, now you wanna strap fuel onto the bike elsewhere where it likely to be either;
a - crushed
b - thrown around.
and so have the potential to increase the severity of an accident?
c - change the center of gravity sufficiently to induce some lack of stability?
Hooked
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:33 am quote
Well, I guess it's down to REI in Bailey's Crossroads to look at fuel bottles and bungee nets for the back of the bike this morning.

Ya know, one consideration was the balance issue with the loading of extra weight. That's what made those post where riders had tanks on the floorboards so appealing - low COG and all that.

Now I'm thinking about a custom metal floorboard "cage" to protect a large plastic can from impact and bursting...
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:40 am quote
Personally, I would hope that my gas can flies very far away from me in the event of a mishap.
I am not sure what you would be protecting the gas can from? They are well made, most have a fill line that accounts for expansion (as it is a well known fact to say the least), and they even feel sturdy as to instill confidence.
Unless you are riding through areas with open flame all around you, then I really would not do anything too drastic other than to make sure the thing is secure so you dont lose it.
I carried gas in a small bottle like this on my motorcycle all over the country, and not ONCE, not even a little bit, did it feel sketchy.
I am not a reckless person, and I know the risks involved when riding, and they FAR outweigh any of the perceived risks of carrying some spare gasoline with you on a motorcycle or scooter. If you take care, and get a canister made to do the job, and secure it to your bike somewhere that is not the muffler, or up against the engine, you will have fun, and enjoy your ride, and forget it is there... until you need it...
Hooked
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:49 am quote
Hmm, specifically, a 'low-side' spill, cans bursting from impact or abrasion, sparks flying around would be a concern...

The kind of low-speed, gravel or loose sand cornering dump where you'd otherwise just get up, look over the bike for scratches, and go on your way.
Resident Grump
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:59 am quote
du Tabac wrote:
Well, I guess it's down to REI in Bailey's Crossroads to look at fuel bottles and bungee nets for the back of the bike this morning.

Ya know, one consideration was the balance issue with the loading of extra weight. That's what made those post where riders had tanks on the floorboards so appealing - low COG and all that.

Now I'm thinking about a custom metal floorboard "cage" to protect a large plastic can from impact and bursting...
Rei doesn't seem to be carrying 1 Liter bottles anymore. I got mine from backcountry.

http://search.backcountry.com/exec/?mv_session_id=7ne96utM&aff=1&q=fuel+bottle&x=0&y=0
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:00 am quote
Re: Your experences carrying extra gas?
du Tabac wrote:
Not to flog a dead horse, but may I ask what has been the real-world experience of folks who've done this?
My real world experience was less than ideal...



Carrying gas in an approved container is fine, just don't leave it on the bike overnight where someone drunk arse can drop a match into it.

(the white plastic blob on the front carrier is the remains of my aux gas tank)
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:09 am quote
Re: Your experences carrying extra gas?
clinton wrote:
du Tabac wrote:
Not to flog a dead horse, but may I ask what has been the real-world experience of folks who've done this?
My real world experience was less than ideal...



Carrying gas in an approved container is fine, just don't leave it on the bike overnight where someone drunk arse can drop a match into it.

(the white plastic blob on the front carrier is the remains of my aux gas tank)
Amazingly the Vespa logo on the side looks pristine . . .

So sorry your ride got torched - I hope they caught the guy. What model was that pre-combustion?
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:15 am quote
Oh, also - I forgot to mention. I used to carry my two REI bottles in my motorcycle's saddlebags. I figured in the event of a crash those wouldn't be staying on the bike anyway. If I had to do the same on my Vespa I'd probably put them in the milkcrate.

I wouldn't worry too much about throwing off the CG. Each liter should weigh about 2.2 pounds and, in the bottles, doesn't slosh too much. The bottles act like a baffled fuel tank. Even in a 1 gallon gas can (about 8 pounds of liquid) it isn't too bad. Much less difficult then riding 2-up.
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:35 am quote
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/primus-fuel-bottles.html

1.5 liter best price shipped
Hooked
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:38 am quote
louisq wrote:
http://www.greatoutdoorsdepot.com/primus-fuel-bottles.html

1.5 liter best price shipped
Ah! Ringraziamente, louisq!
Resident Grump
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:39 am quote
Re: Your experences carrying extra gas?
clinton wrote:
du Tabac wrote:
Not to flog a dead horse, but may I ask what has been the real-world experience of folks who've done this?
My real world experience was less than ideal...



Carrying gas in an approved container is fine, just don't leave it on the bike overnight where someone drunk arse can drop a match into it.

(the white plastic blob on the front carrier is the remains of my aux gas tank)
I thought you carried the fuel in stove bottles strapped to the rear carrier. They appear to be intact and still attached and the fire seems to be near the front of the scoot.
Molto Verboso
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:47 am quote
"Insane" is getting a little carried away. Some of us have to step into the wild a little more. You do realize...we all carry our gas in a little plastic tank *right now*. And motorcyclists have it sitting right under their chest...OH THE DANGER!!

I've carried spare fuel in nothing more than a 2.5 gallon gas can bungeed to my tail rack. I took it cross-country like that bcs there were some parts of California, Nevada and Colorado where I expected to be in the rough, and off-road. Your fuel efficiency drops through the floor when you're offroad, and the amount of real distance you put down per gallon can really take a hit if you're doing alot of exploration. Out there was the only place I felt I really needed it (and actually needed it once, getting down through Inyo National Forest, and into Vegas).

They make ATV fuel cells like the Kolpin Jr. Size which is compact enough to consider throwing on a scooter neatly.



Those MSR bottles are nice...sturdy. But they don't carry much.
Molto Verboso
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:01 am quote
du Tabac wrote:
Lol, Joel!

Say, the GTS' gas tank is plastic AND vented, yes? Can venting fumes ever cause problems in the confined compartment space?
You want a sealed can. Actually, it's required to store fuel in a sealed can. Vented tanks can only be vented if equipped with an evap system...such as the one used on the GTS (the fuel vapor is trapped in the evap canister until you start the engine and suck the vapor back into the engine while it's running).
Molto Verboso
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:03 am quote
When I'm heading into unknown territory, especially deep into a rural area where fuel might be scarce, I carry a red plastic 1 gallon, 4-ounce container. It has a fill line for one gallon; the extra 4-ounce capacity is for expansion. I bungee it to nylon cable loops from Lowe's, using the four original screws in the battery cover on the floorboard. If you use a 2-gallon size, you can't open the pet carrier without removing the gas can.

The black thing sticking out from the top edge in the photo is a connection for my Battery Tender, Jr., if it's parked a long time during the Winter months.

BatteryTenderJrConnection.JPG

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Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:25 am quote
Du Tabac,

Might I suggest a thread following your progress on the trip x-country.

My wife and I have always wanted to do this, so it will be interesting to see how it goes.

safe travels!
Molto Verboso
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:43 am quote
I have hauled gas all over place 1gal - 5gal containers.
Vespa and Tomos ped.
Bungee to rear rack and go.
Have to adjust a little to the shifting weight ( liquid sloshing around)
Never had a problem in 20 + years...

Last edited by got mine on Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
Ossessionato
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:52 am quote
Extra Gas
Running out of gas is no fun. I always carry a extra gallon with me. Anything bigger won't let you open the seat or the glove box all the way. When traveling and parked at night at a motel, I move the scooter near my room window (I never get a place where I have to park the scooter where I can't see it!!), and cover it so the gas can can't be seen.

GTS EXTRA GAS 3.jpg

GTS EXTRA GAS 2.jpg

Petty Tyrant
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:59 am quote
I don't think there's anything wrong at all with carrying an extra gas can strapped to the hump in the step-through. As long as it's securely tied down, it's not going to touch the road even in a long low-side slide.

All the gas cans sold in California have to be completely sealed, and not vent any vapor to atmosphere. The upshot of this is that the design tends to be a little beefier, with thicker plastic to contain expansion.

For everyone who thinks this is crazy talk, remove the plastic cowl on the rear right-hand side of your bike and observe the bottom of the gas tank sticking out below the frame.
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:35 am quote
shragtemp wrote:
Du Tabac,

Might I suggest a thread following your progress on the trip x-country.

My wife and I have always wanted to do this, so it will be interesting to see how it goes.

safe travels!
I will be riding right through your fair city at the end of the cannonball. As will jess, and "oopscluckthud."

You shoud ride out to the finish line. I am sure you will get an earful about a cross country ride there...

http://www.scootercannonball.com/

http://www.cann
Hooked
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 9:18 am quote
I side with the "it's fine" group. Ever look at a go-kart? I don't mean a kiddie one, I mean a 100mph racing shifter kart that is likely to be crashed. Plastic fuel tank between your knees...

Gas does not explode and it is surprisingly hard to light on fire with just a spark - VAPOR, on the other hand is a whole 'nother thing.

I would put it on the floor myself for the weight distribution plus it won't steal room for other stuff there.
Hooked
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:16 am quote
Well, thanks to all who replied. I believe that I'm gonna go with a Cal-spec sealed 1- gal. plastic can well tied down to the floorboard.

Don't figure to actually need or fill it until I hit the remoter parts of my planned trip, but it'll be nice to have.

My personal odessy is envisoned as No VA-to-Omaha-to-Denver-to-Taos and back by a coastal southerly route, and at a very leisurely rate. Blue highways as far as possible.

Meantime, I'm researching minimalist gear, routes, and family & friends along the way. Two changes clothes - plan to mail laundry home, and as long as there's a Walmart around someplace, I'll never lack for re-supply.

Got the bike broken in, got the tools and spares, got the GPS, rainsuit, got the road service/towing contract in place, and got the training. Adding experience daily in all conditions and at all speeds. Gonna sit at my mechanic's feet as he permits and get real familiar with everything as far as I am able.

Done it by lux-o Toyota truck several times before - this should be another whole thang, eh?
Ossessionato
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:45 am quote
Back in the day both VW and Saab sold metal spare gas cans (the VW one was disc shaped to fit in the center of the spare wheel, the Saab was about 24" long and 6" diameter kind of wiener shaped.) They were both real fine gear, very well made. Look in ebay for them.

Your photo and screen name suggest you smoke; don't get a vented tank.
Hooked
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 2:57 pm quote
Here's a website (one of many) for Wedco NATO jerry cans that are phenomenal--they do not leak, and they're virtually indestructable: http://www.landroverparts.us/landroverparts/NATOjerryCans.html?gclid=CJ7y4unM2ZQCFQkmIgodpyXBkw

I have the large 5 gal (20 liter) version for my pickup, I've been carrying it in the back (under the cap) strapped to the sidewall, and it's never indicated even the slightest seepage. If I were to want to carry more on my scooter than I do now, it would be in the 5 liter version, pinned well between my feet. But since I've never yet seen a plastic can that didn't leak or seep just a little, I wouldn't use one.

The NATO jerry cans are pricey on any of the websites that have them. They can also be ordered through NAPA (that's where I got mine). But you won't find a better constructed (and safer) gas can, I think.

I carry a 32 oz. (quart) MSR bottle (purchased at REI, I think--but almost any place that has MSR camping stoves has them in all sorts of sizes) in the pet carrier now. At roughly 50 mpg, that'll get me an extra 12 miles, and since I get better than that mpg on the highway, I figure that's plenty for most of my purposes. It also makes me a little more comfortable that when the gas light comes on but I don't have time to stop right then, I won't be stranded if I pass up the next gas station.

Cary
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:07 pm quote
Thanks, Cary - went to REI earlier today: no cans of any kind!

Staff couldn't believe they were all gone - no word on any new shipments coming in - is this an REI policy change or just a symptom of increased demand?
Molto Verboso
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:12 pm quote
Carrying extra fuel has never been a problem for me on my GTS. When I refuel I also fill the under seat plastic storeage container with fuel, you can get just over 2 gallons in. Once refuelled cover it with cling film to stop it sloshing around. When required put a funnel in the tank spout and pour. Jobs a good 'un
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:23 pm quote
Oultondave wrote:
Carrying extra fuel has never been a problem for me on my GTS. When I refuel I also fill the under seat plastic storeage container with fuel, you can get just over 2 gallons in. Once refuelled cover it with cling film to stop it sloshing around. When required put a funnel in the tank spout and pour. Jobs a good 'un
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:32 pm quote
my advice is not to do it if you can avoid it. i did it once and the gas ended up sloshing out of the gas canister onto the floorboard
Hooked
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:10 pm quote
Scooter_D wrote:
my advice is not to do it if you can avoid it. i did it once and the gas ended up sloshing out of the gas canister onto the floorboard
Whew! Was afraid for a moment there that you had used Oultondave's method..."there'll always be an England..."
Molto Verboso
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:24 pm quote
du Tabac wrote:
Scooter_D wrote:
my advice is not to do it if you can avoid it. i did it once and the gas ended up sloshing out of the gas canister onto the floorboard
Whew! Was afraid for a moment there that you had used Oultondave's method..."there'll always be an England..."
It works well, better than filling the top box which I tried first but it leaked out of the mounting bracket holes!!!
Hooked
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:28 pm quote
Oultondave wrote:
du Tabac wrote:
Scooter_D wrote:
my advice is not to do it if you can avoid it. i did it once and the gas ended up sloshing out of the gas canister onto the floorboard
Whew! Was afraid for a moment there that you had used Oultondave's method..."there'll always be an England..."
It works well, better than filling the top box which I tried first but it leaked out of the mounting bracket holes!!!
and just as I was about to run a plastic tube from the top-box to the filller cap...
Molto Verboso
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Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:30 pm quote
du Tabac wrote:
Oultondave wrote:
du Tabac wrote:
Scooter_D wrote:
my advice is not to do it if you can avoid it. i did it once and the gas ended up sloshing out of the gas canister onto the floorboard
Whew! Was afraid for a moment there that you had used Oultondave's method..."there'll always be an England..."
It works well, better than filling the top box which I tried first but it leaked out of the mounting bracket holes!!!
and just as I was about to run a plastic tube from the top-box to the filller cap...
Plus it makes your sandwiches taste and smell of petrol!!

You see you don't get useful tips like this on scooter-forums my lad!!!!
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