Modern Vespa

That's pretty slick. How do you control volume? Just turn the bezel?

Cincinnati John Shogyo #3650VC. Solid-state audio indicator emits a medium-loud, high-pitched tone. Screwdriver adjustable trimmer on back of device controls volume. Operates on 4-28 Vdc @ 6 mA. Black plastic face is 1.45" diameter x 0.16" thick. 1.25" diameter threaded mounting bushing with large plastic nut mounts in panels up to 0.5" thick. 0.187" qc or solder terminals.

Sorry, for the photo quality since it doesn't show the trimmer clearly.
It's located between the terminals.

Just did this install on the wife's GTV - simple to do and it looks and works great

I used the epoxy method as well

I checked my knee pad on the left side and there is little space behind the knee pad. so how did you put all those switches behind that because there is just metal behind there.

Got all the bits and parts to do this with my GT. So, want to double check a couple of things.

1. When I install the cigarette outlet - I can then safely use my Battery Tender by plugging it in there instead of monkeying with the battery, right?

2. I just got some Gerbings heated gloves. Specs as follows:
Heat GHC High Density Heat
Source 12-volts DC
Current 2.2 amps
Watts 27 watts
Surface Temp 135°F +/- 5°F at 32°F

Can I plug these safely into the lighter outlet? (I know I'll need the adapter, just want to make sure I'm not plugging in anything that draws more than this mod will handle.)

Thanks!

Kim, This is a perfectly safe (and very convenient) way to connect a battery tender. Much better I think than through a dedicated pigtail on the battery. Just make sure you have the polarity right - there are a few previous posts on this thread that deal with that.

2.2 amps is a safe load (I'm assuming that's the load for two gloves); even 4.4 amps would be ok. You should be able to draw close to 10 amps from the plug, installed at the alarm connector.

If you install the outlet connected directly to the battery you will be able to plug in your tender and then charge the battery.

Your #16 wire will handle a amperage of 5 amps, so thats safe for the gloves.
See Jess handy chart here : http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic17

(I hope the info I am giving is correct, but to the best of my knowledge it is!)

The lighter plug isn't connected directly to the battery here, but there is an unbroken path to it through the RED/BLU wire at the alarm connector (through fuses #1 and #8.)

The ampacities in Jess' wire table are light in my experience. For example: that table gives the capacity of #12 wire as 12A, but #12 wire is routinely used for 20A residential circuits. Here's a table I've used for years with good results:

COPPER CONDUCTOR AMPACITIES, IN FREE AIR AT 30 DEGREES C
========================================================
INSULATION RUW, T THW, THWN FEP, FEPB
TYPE: TW RUH THHN, XHHW
========================================================
Size Current Rating Current Rating Current Rating
AWG @ 60 degrees C @ 75 degrees C @ 90 degrees C
========================================================
20 -------- *9 ----------------------------- *12.5
18 -------- *13 ------------------------------ 18
16 -------- *18 ------------------------------ 24
14 --------- 25 ------------- 30 ------------- 35
12 --------- 30 ------------- 35 ------------- 40
10 --------- 40 ------------- 50 ------------- 55
8 ---------- 60 ------------- 70 ------------- 80
6 ---------- 80 ------------- 95 ------------ 105
4 --------- 105 ------------ 125 ------------ 140
2 --------- 140 ------------ 170 ------------ 190
1 --------- 165 ------------ 195 ------------ 220
1/0 ------- 195 ------------ 230 ------------ 260
2/0 ------- 225 ------------ 265 ------------ 300
3/0 ------- 260 ------------ 310 ------------ 350
4/0 ------- 300 ------------ 360 ------------ 405

* = estimated values; normally, these small wire sizes
are not manufactured with these insulation types

Source: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_12/3.html

These values are for single conductors in free air, so you'd de-rate a bit for the bundled wires in the bike. The wire on the alarm connector circuits is 1.0 sq. mm, which is approx. AWG 17. Splitting the difference between AWG 16 and 18, 1.0 sq. mm wire should be good to about 15A at 60°C (the most conservative rating). De-rating for bundled wire would take it down to about 10A. That's exactly the current at which these circuits are fused.

So my next question is fueled by the possibilities of the lighter plug and all the different threads about jump-starting scooters, etc.

Would it be possible/safe/advisable to make a lighter outlet to lighter outlet cord to jump start the scoot from a car?

I know for cars it isn't enough to jump start through that type of connection. Would it be enough to jump start a GT?

I've seen some premade ones for sale, or some pretty simple instructions for making your own. Would seem like a good thing to have under the seat for the cold weather days I'm seeing now.

The lighter plug, supplied by the alarm connector as I've got it here, would not be a good way to jump start, in either direction. The alarm connector circuits are fused at 10A, and jump-starting has the potential to draw way more than that, depending on the remaining charge in the depleted battery. If you want the capacity to do that, you'd do best to feed the lighter plug from a heavier wire connected directly to the battery's positive terminal.
Actually, it is possible to jump cars this way. You run a cable between the two lighter plugs, rev the donor car's engine a bit, and let the other car's battery charge up for a few minutes without trying to start. After a few minutes, disconnect the lighter plug cable and then try to start. That's the procedure I'd follow for scooters too. Less potential for melted insulation...

Great write up John, THANKS!

Did the install for just a power socket in about 20 minutes, much nicer than the cord for my tender sticking up out of the floor

Sorry for the late response.
I mounted all the switches, LED and cigar lighter on the metal behind the plastic knee panel.
Then I drilled holes through the plastic knee panel to allow the switches etc to stick through the knee panel.
If you look closely at the pictures, you won't see any nuts holding the switches to the knee panel.
The nuts are hidden behind the knee panel.

Thats AWESOME!!

I like the modifications to the original project very much, but have a question about the basic bit. I'm having a hard time getting the wires to stay in the connector firmly enough to then be able to strap the wires to the side of it and thus securing them. I did point them a bit with solder, but it still seems to be hit or miss. As such, I'm concerned that the connection even after I get it secured may not be that good. ANy tips out there?

Thanks,

Jon

It sounds like the wire you're using is too fine. I used #20AWG stranded copper. I stripped about ¼" of insulation, and tinned the stripped ends with solder. It helped to slightly mash the tinned ends with a needlenose before inserting into the connector.

I think I used wire wrap wire for my connections to the garage door remote to the Alco switches.

Tinning the wire prior to soldering is key.
I haven't had any wire breakage in over 6 years of service.

Thanks both, I think I had the proper gauge wire but had not tinned it enough. It's now snug, but not the best of fits. Regardless, I strapped it in and taped it up, and all is functioning perfectly. This was a great first project on my new (to me) 07 GTS. I really appreciate the initial post as it inspired me to get it done. Next step is to rewire a garage door remote and add it to the panel. The oil slick button will have to wait...

Best,

Jon

You can hear what the basic piezo from Radio Shack sounds like on the clip I put up here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQSswV_l4A4

I've attached a pic of my install also.

Can that eject oddjob?

Thanks Cincinnati John... Did the mod today.. top info. Jim.

Great write up, great questions, great thread! Thank you. It answered my switched power question of today.

What I don't understand is the battery tender>INlet plug cable. What is it designed for? Where do you plug it into? Aren't these plugs designed to go INTO a power OUTlet, so wouldn't it make sense to wire an outlet to that battery tender cable (which is one of my next projects)?


Same question goes to Exonic Jay's picture with this plug connected to the battery tender and inserted to a power outlet. So, the battery power is fed into an outlet, which is connected to that same battery? Appears to be a circuit with no function, or what am I not seeing?

Thanks again!

Moped, sorry I didn't see your post until just now; I'd have answered sooner.

The receptacle can function either as an inlet or an outlet. There's a direct path between it and the battery, so you can charge the battery through it or draw power from the battery through it, either way. A wire's a wire, y'know?

To connect a tender, you'd put a mating plug on the outlet of the tender, and plug into the receptacle. Works slick.

Has anyone found an all in one solution? Buzzer or clicker in housing with diodes and three wires coming out?
BTW - what is the third set of wires in the GT200 left knee well? Recognize alarm cluster, power plug.

Props on the MI-6 labels. Definitely takes it to a whole new level. I couldn't do better myself.

Hi, I just wanted to thank Cincinnati John and all the others for all of your generous help to all... I have made my first mod, I added the PIZO buzzer in less then 10 min. after I got all the parts (I used a different diode, the 1000v ver. as where I live supplies are limited and a different pizo buzzer). It all worked like a charm. Salute

Very good; glad to hear that.

Do feel free to give the OP a , y'all!

Got it!

Appreciate that!!

thanks for the wiring diagram. finally complete the project last weekend.

was thinking of wiring up a small 300watt amp to 110watt speakers in the toolbox and playing my i-pod through it IS THIS POSSIBLE JOHN ?

the amp is an auna 300 watt and speakers are kenwood 110 watt all avaliable on e-bay

thanks for any help by the way i live in scotland

I would say the alarm connector circuits are not heavy enough for that application. The alarm connector will pass 10 amps safely, and the amp will draw more than that during peak signals (300 watts peak ÷ 12 volts = 25 amps peak; more than that actually, considering amp efficiency).

You might be able to get by, by running a dedicated circuit directly from the battery, but you'd first have to know the steady-state no-signal current draw for your amplifier. If that current is anywhere close to 8 amps, the amp would be too much of a load on the electrical system. The alternator only has enough excess capacity to deliver about 8 amps continuous for accessories.

It is ok to draw more than 8 amps, but only on an intermittent basis. Any excess over 8 amps would be drawn from the battery (which would have to be made up by the alternator, of course, during lower-load times).

So the short answer would be "Maybe, but not from the alarm connector." Hope that's not to long-winded…

Oh, and welcome to MV. Glad you made your first post here!

john thanx very much for your help much appreciated

just been on the english gts owners site and a guy has actually done what i was thinking of doing using the same set up basically and hes using the jack plug for the alarm in the toolbox i wonder if he knows what he has done and the downside that you have just explained to me

the thread on that site is WHAT YOU GOT then click a few changes since the last pictures i posted

thanx again john

It could work I suppose, but that's running a bit close to the edge for my comfort level.

Perfect for motorcycles or cars, high power from a small size.

Highlights:

* 300 watt peak power (2 x 30W RMS)

Features:

* High power input
* Input through RCA with input level controller
* Frequency response: 40 Hz ~ 20 kHz
* Input impedance 40 kOhm
* Distortion: <0> 70 dB
* Impedance: 4 ~ 16 ohms

john heres the spec on the amp would it draw more than 8 amps

do you think its possible to fit through the alarm plug rather than take straight from the battery thanx again john

I decided to start this up today and took the left knee panel off on my 300 only to find almost nothing there. Any ideas where the alarm connector would be? I looked in every manual and forum post I could find, but no dice.

Thanks in advance,

Jesse

put your fingers in to the right and you will find the connector block with the wires going into it mine was just lying loose behind the forks you wont go wrong

Stevie, sorry I missed your last post. I take the 2 x 30 watts rms to be the max continuous power. That would work out to be 60w ÷ 12v = 5 amps continuous. After amp efficiency, that's probably more like 7 or 8. But that's max continuous, you won't be drawing that much most of the time. There's no being sure without making the measurement, but you're probably ok. It won't leave much room for any other accessories, though. And I can't help but be a bit concerned about that 300W peak…

thanx again john well im going for it m8 should be starting it this weekend will let you know how i get on keep up the good work this is a great forum

I have the early wiring harness in my '07. Does anyone know what the extra open connectors are bundled with the alarm connector?

i also have another 2 extra plug connector ones as well as the main one in my 06 gts i dont know what they are for either so sorry i cant help you