Scooter engine dies when I stop. ***FIXED***
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Hooked
PIAGGIO FLY 150
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 128
Location: SF Bay Area, Calif
Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:50 pm quote
Help !
I have a 2008 Fly 150, 2 months old, 450 miles on it.
This morning I had a hard time starting it up.
It took a alot of trys and a long time on the starter.
I head out figuring I would be ok maybe a little cold, but it just got worse.
If I gave it gas and was moving I seemed to be ok, till I hit a stop then engine dead.
Little plastic bowl for air filter drain has 2 drops of oil like it has since I got it.
I had 1/8 tank so I fill it (I use chevron 91 octane)
Put battery charger on while I am at work
Remove evap hose
Remove gas cap
Wiggle wire to spark plug
Turn up idle
Still dies when I let up on the gas.
Anyone have any ideas?

Last edited by FLY_BOY on Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Moderaptor
2xGP800, Fuoco, X9 500 Evo, The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug), 'Olive' (GT200) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 31637
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:54 pm quote
Check valve clearance. I bet they're tight when cold...
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1980 P200E - "Old Rusty"
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 7021
Location: Redwood City, CA
Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:57 pm quote
Loose vacuum hose for the fuel tap? This might cause not enough vacuum when the engine is running slow. Does it die off immediately?

The stop light thing doesn't sound like enough time to kill it even with the fuel tap closed due to a lack of vacuum...

Could your carb have gotten dirty somehow? I know you gave it new gas, but maybe the last batch was bad and some sort of debris clogged some of the jets.

Have you had any history of over-fill BEFORE the evap removal?

You should be able to get it fixed under warranty if none of our ideas help.
Ossessionato
2011 GTS 300 Super 2013 BMW K1600 GTL
Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 3982
Location: Irvine, CA
Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:58 pm quote
Do you have a Corsa Booster??
Molto Verboso
GT 200
Joined: 15 Jul 2008
Posts: 1262
Location: Denver, CO
Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:22 pm quote
I was going to say the idle, because that was my issue. It kept dying when I'd stop. Adjusted the idle and it took care of it.

I know that I was turning the idle the wrong way at first, is it possible that you did this? Sorry, I'm a mechanical rero, please don't take offense. Just checking.
Hooked
PIAGGIO FLY 150
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 128
Location: SF Bay Area, Calif
Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:22 pm quote
I have always used chevron gas 91 octane. I even look at the pump to make sure the person before me was pumping 91.
I only drive on city streets so I don't think the carb is dirty.
The scooter is stock from the factory. No mods.
When I tried the idle I turned it alot. If I had it set halfway down the screw the motor would run fast when it would start. I tried turning it down to a reasonable speed and it died.
I have never over filled the fuel tank. I fill the tank using the procedure I found on this site.
Think I should take a look at the filter anyway? When this started I was low at 1/8 of a tank.
Called local dealer trying to make appointment.
Thanks for the ideas.
I will take a look at the fuel tap hose. Um, where is it on the fly?
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1980 P200E - "Old Rusty"
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 7021
Location: Redwood City, CA
Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:32 pm quote
FLY_BOY wrote:
where is it on the fly?
If you look up under your gas tank you should see the fuel tap, has two hoses, one for the gas, the other is the vacuum hose. I doubt anything is wrong with it, but if you check the seal at both ends of that hose, and look for cracks or something it couldn't hurt...

I am sure the mechanic will find the problem otherwise. And keep us posted on the result!
Moderator
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty"
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 7021
Location: Redwood City, CA
Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:37 pm quote
FLY_BOY wrote:
When I tried the idle I turned it alot. If I had it set halfway down the screw the motor would run fast when it would start. I tried turning it down to a reasonable speed and it died.
Can I ask what means you used to adjust your idle, by the way? You shouldn't adjust it until your engine is nice and warm. And then adjust in small steps. Typically it will run faster when cold, and then die down to a smooth idle when warm. If you adjusted it cold to an "acceptable idle," as it warms up it might slow down to too low a level and putter out.

Also, I've found the "Wheel isn't in rotation" guideline for idle speed isn't entirely true. In asking around here on MV, most people agreed some rotation which is easily stopped by hand of the wheel is also normal. So maybe if your scoot should have a little rotation when idling and you've set it to not rotate, as the manual does indicate, it is in fact on the low side.

Anyway, I was just wondering what temp you adjusted your idle at and what means you used to judge the idle speed.

All of this is a little aside though, as your problem crept up suddenly by your description... doesn't sound like an idle problem unless something besides the idle screw adjustment somehow changed over night. Hey, maybe the vacuum hose DID wiggle loose or something, who knows Something seems to have come loose or broken...
Hooked
PIAGGIO FLY 150
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 128
Location: SF Bay Area, Calif
Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:18 pm quote
I just gave the idle a small turn in the beginning.
It seemed to not make any difference with my problem.
I then gave it a few full turns. It ran pretty full out and I quickly turned it down hoping to get to a nice sounding engine. But it just died when I got back to a lower speed.
I don't think an idle should be that touchy should it?
I would think it would start to sputter when getting to lean. It just does 1 sputter then dies.
How many turns would a good starting place be to start an idle adjustment?
Moderator
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty"
Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 7021
Location: Redwood City, CA
Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:18 am quote
FLY_BOY wrote:
I just gave the idle a small turn in the beginning.
It seemed to not make any difference with my problem.
I then gave it a few full turns. It ran pretty full out and I quickly turned it down hoping to get to a nice sounding engine. But it just died when I got back to a lower speed.
I don't think an idle should be that touchy should it?
I would think it would start to sputter when getting to lean. It just does 1 sputter then dies.
How many turns would a good starting place be to start an idle adjustment?
So the idle is actually very sensitive, and there is usually a delay in how it affects the running. Less than a full turn is actually a large amount to adjust it.

A good way to adjust the idle is, again, to ride it around or let it warm up for 10 minutes. Then, put it on the stand and let the engine settle down into its idle. Then turn the idle screw a small amount (try 45 degrees if you want a place to start... in the end you could be working with even smaller increments) in whatever direction is appropriate. Then rev the engine with the throttle a bit, let go of the throttle, and let it settle back down completely - this will most realistically be the new idle you set it to. If it is still off, adjust another small bit, rev engine, let die down, and assess the situation again, and so on.

If you turned the idle screw, say, a full turn, rightly figuring that would only move the screw into the carb a small amount, you actually turned it a lot. It doesn't change very quickly on it's own, however, if you didn't rev the engine, so it wouldn't seem to have done anything. You might then figure "I guess that was a negligible amount to turn it" and turn it more as you did. After a moment the new idle WILL kick in and the engine will roar up high. Then turning it back "quickly" might easily put the idle too low.

Idle adjustment takes a little patience and a delicate touch with the screw driver. If it does wind up being too high, don't panic, it's not really very different from when you are turning the throttle in normal circumstances. Just back the screw off again a fraction of a turn (unless you turned it 3 full times ), give the throttle some twists, and see where it settles down to that time.

It sounds to me you are trying to adjust the idle in way too large steps. Try it again, but this time turn the screw partial turns, revving the engine and letting it settle back down completely before assessing where the adjustment you just made has put you. Maybe your idle IS too low after all!
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2xGP800, Fuoco, X9 500 Evo, The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug), 'Olive' (GT200) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 31637
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Sep 25, 2008 4:28 am quote
+1

Good description.
Hooked
PIAGGIO FLY 150
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 128
Location: SF Bay Area, Calif
Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:47 am quote
Thanks Xantufrog I will try again tonite.
I turned it alot.
Assume it it WAY out.
Hooked
PIAGGIO FLY 150
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 128
Location: SF Bay Area, Calif
Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:48 am quote
Does anyone have the specs for the spark plug.
That was the one thing I didn't do.
I'm gonna take it out tonite and make sure it's ok.
I have looked and can't find the gap.
Hooked
PIAGGIO FLY 150
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 128
Location: SF Bay Area, Calif
Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:02 pm quote
Well I ended up taking it to the local dealer.
Called Vespa roadside and they cover up to $100.00 for towing.
Towing free for me! cost $92.50
They took the Carb apart and found factory lubricant in the Jets.
The gas is supposed to flush it out but didn't.
They also adjusted the Idle as it was adjusted as a test.

I'm back in the saddle again!!
Rock Star
BMW R1200GS 'The Toilet'
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 8746
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland
Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:28 pm quote
FLY_BOY wrote:
They took the Carb apart and found factory lubricant in the Jets.
The gas is supposed to flush it out but didn't.
Is somebody (ie your dealer) inventing stories? This sounds very much like BS to me!

Glad it's sorted though.
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