Dr Pulley Comparison
Post Reply    Forum -> MP3 Discussion Previous1234
Author Message
Hooked
MP3 - 500
Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 413
Location: Alabama, USA
Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:06 am quote
Rob In Denver wrote:
A friend and I took our two 500s out Saturday. one with the DR.Pulleys and one without, and traded back and forth.
We both agreed the Dr. Pulley bike ( mine) is all around better than my wife's stock bike. Not very scientific, but there it is.
Well worth the money me thinks.
Assuming there to be various weights available, what weight did you choose for the 500 ? Also do you have plans to modify your other machine too?
Ossessionato
Mp3 500
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 2320
Location: Denver Colorado
Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:06 pm quote
I bought some of the original weights offered by Redfone at the beginning of this long thread, and to tell you the truth now I don't recall, but he special ordered them I think. Sure the info is here somewhere.
I am not sure my wife will pick up on the difference, but if the economy ever straightens out I will get a Costa for me, and put the pulleys on hers.
Banned
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 573

Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:21 am quote
redfone had bought 19gm sliders (for the 500).
Like jimc said the Dr Pulley sliders do 70% of the job that a costa does.
Ossessionato
Mp3 500
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 2320
Location: Denver Colorado
Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:53 am quote
I suppose if that is true, then it is an expensive percentage upgrade. Still, 30% seems a lot to leave on the table!
Member
Piaggio MP3 400ie
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 26
Location: Tring, Herts, UK
Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:46 pm quote
Rob In Denver wrote:
I suppose if that is true, then it is an expensive percentage upgrade. Still, 30% seems a lot to leave on the table!
Let's (as you 'Mericans say) "do the math"; and rework it a little.

If the Dr. Pulley does 70% of the notional 100% job that the Costa does, then that means that even after you've done the job the Dr Pulley way (& spent the $ - c'mon who waits to do this upgrade until their O/E's are worn out?) you still have a step to go that adds a further 30/70 (NB, not 30/100!)= 42.86% to the increased oomph of the bike.

Best, B
Hooked
MP3 400
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 215
Location: Seal Beach, Ca
Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:53 pm quote
hmm, looks like Scooter Trap now has Both for sale. Sliders for $50 and Variator for $280. That seems like a good ratio... 70% of the upgrade for 20% of the cost.


What happens if you put Dr Pulley's in your J. Costa?
Hooked
MP3 - 500
Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 413
Location: Alabama, USA
Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:23 pm quote
Advanced Roadcraft wrote:
Rob In Denver wrote:
I suppose if that is true, then it is an expensive percentage upgrade. Still, 30% seems a lot to leave on the table!
Let's (as you 'Mericans say) "do the math"; and rework it a little.

If the Dr. Pulley does 70% of the notional 100% job that the Costa does, then that means that even after you've done the job the Dr Pulley way (& spent the $ - c'mon who waits to do this upgrade until their O/E's are worn out?) you still have a step to go that adds a further 30/70 (NB, not 30/100!)= 42.86% to the increased oomph of the bike.

Best, B
Not too good at math anymore, but aren't we missing the point a a little.

Try this:

Let's assume OEM performance is at 70% of a J Costa installation. We are further assuming that a Dr. Pulley achieves 70% of the 30% gain, or 21% plus the OEM original perf. yielding a potential 91%.

Change the OEM starting % any way you wish but if the cost difference between JC. and Dr P is minimal, then I guess JCosta wins 'hands down' in achieving an additional 9% or so gain.

If this is rubbish please disregard...............
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38616
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:21 pm quote
I'd put it this way - if you have to save up for the J Costa but don't have to for the Dr Pulley sliders, go with the latter! If you have the cash in hand, go the J Costa route every time.

Neither of these mods are in any way essential to the good running of the bike or the pleasure in riding the twisties - but either will make the grin wider.
Banned
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 573

Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:36 pm quote
Rank Bajin wrote:
Not too good at math anymore, but aren't we missing the point a a little.

Try this:

Let's assume OEM performance is at 70% of a J Costa installation. We are further assuming that a Dr. Pulley achieves 70% of the 30% gain, or 21% plus the OEM original perf. yielding a potential 91%.

Change the OEM starting % any way you wish but if the cost difference between JC. and Dr P is minimal, then I guess JCosta wins 'hands down' in achieving an additional 9% or so gain.

If this is rubbish please disregard...............
The way I figure it using your system is:
A 100% improvement cost $280
A 91% improvement cost $50
I think I'd go for the 91% and put the $230 back in my pocket.

Or look at this way: That 9% improvement will cost you $230 more.
Member
Piaggio MP3 400ie
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 26
Location: Tring, Herts, UK
Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:11 pm quote
Akrimonious wrote:
hmm, looks like Scooter Trap now has Both for sale. Sliders for $50 and Variator for $280. That seems like a good ratio... 70% of the upgrade for 20% of the cost.


What happens if you put Dr Pulley's in your J. Costa?
Good question! You can't. They won't fit - much less work. (You were hoping for the answer "135% increase" weren't you? )

O/E are rollers; Dr Pulley are sliders that run in the original variator's guide channels and work up the ramps due to centrifugal force in a similar motion to the originals. The claim is that their shape provides a more sophisticated, non-linear, better power curve.

J Costa are "blunt pins" that move out semi-laterally and press on to a different shaped bell in a completely different motion from either sliders or rollers. That's why you have to replace the whole variator with this system.

To see a J Costa in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-QqHE0bNjw

Best, B
Ossessionato
2020 MP3 Sport 500 HPE ABS ASR
Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 4083
Location: El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora Reina de los Ángeles sobre el Río Porciúncula
Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:15 pm quote
larry8 wrote:
Rank Bajin wrote:
Not too good at math anymore, but aren't we missing the point a a little.

Try this:

Let's assume OEM performance is at 70% of a J Costa installation. We are further assuming that a Dr. Pulley achieves 70% of the 30% gain, or 21% plus the OEM original perf. yielding a potential 91%.

Change the OEM starting % any way you wish but if the cost difference between JC. and Dr P is minimal, then I guess JCosta wins 'hands down' in achieving an additional 9% or so gain.

If this is rubbish please disregard...............
The way I figure it using your system is:
A 100% improvement cost $280
A 91% improvement cost $50
I think I'd go for the 91% and put the $230 back in my pocket.

Or look at this way: That 9% improvement will cost you $230 more.
A fine example of the law of diminishing returns.

BTW, isn't about time we repeal the inverse square law? Think how much more efficient that would make solar power.
Enthusiast
MP3 250
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 74
Location: Sweden Stockholm
Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:27 am quote
jimc wrote:
I'd put it this way - if you have to save up for the J Costa but don't have to for the Dr Pulley sliders, go with the latter! If you have the cash in hand, go the J Costa route every time.

Neither of these mods are in any way essential to the good running of the bike or the pleasure in riding the twisties - but either will make the grin wider.
The only question would be if one took the Dr Pulley "road", is what weight one should use for best preformance
Model Weight
MP3 250 = ?????
MP3 500 = ?????
Banned
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 573

Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:59 am quote
rille wrote:
jimc wrote:
I'd put it this way - if you have to save up for the J Costa but don't have to for the Dr Pulley sliders, go with the latter! If you have the cash in hand, go the J Costa route every time.

Neither of these mods are in any way essential to the good running of the bike or the pleasure in riding the twisties - but either will make the grin wider.
The only question would be if one took the Dr Pulley "road", is what weight one should use for best preformance
Model Weight
MP3 250 = ?????
MP3 500 = ?????
J Costa doesn't make different weights. Only the weight that comes with it for your scooter size.
Enthusiast
MP3 250
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 74
Location: Sweden Stockholm
Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:04 am quote
larry8 wrote:
rille wrote:
jimc wrote:
I'd put it this way - if you have to save up for the J Costa but don't have to for the Dr Pulley sliders, go with the latter! If you have the cash in hand, go the J Costa route every time.

Neither of these mods are in any way essential to the good running of the bike or the pleasure in riding the twisties - but either will make the grin wider.
The only question would be if one took the Dr Pulley "road", is what weight one should use for best preformance
Model Weight
MP3 250 = ?????
MP3 500 = ?????
J Costa doesn't make different weights. Only the weight that comes with it for your scooter size.
Know that, but one took the Dr Pulley "road" (and not JCosta) what is the weight one should go for.

I dont have the tools or know how to do it myself, so it would be a bit frustrating and expencive to try many out.
Banned
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 573

Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:13 am quote
What I heard & read on the original weights.
The 250 has 11.2gm weights
The 500 has 21gm weights
The 400 has 18.7gm weights (actual weight of my original rollers).

Most people go 10% lighter. I used 17gm Dr Pulley sliders in mine.
Enthusiast
MP3 250
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 74
Location: Sweden Stockholm
Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:51 am quote
larry8 wrote:
What I heard & read on the original weights.
The 250 has 11.2gm weights
The 500 has 21gm weights
The 400 has 18.7gm weights (actual weight of my original rollers).

Most people go 10% lighter. I used 17gm Dr Pulley sliders in mine.
Ok, thx.
So for a 250 it should be about 10gm then with the 10% off.
Now i have a number to go with
Banned
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 573

Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:29 am quote
rille wrote:
larry8 wrote:
What I heard & read on the original weights.
The 250 has 11.2gm weights
The 500 has 21gm weights
The 400 has 18.7gm weights (actual weight of my original rollers).

Most people go 10% lighter. I used 17gm Dr Pulley sliders in mine.
Ok, thx.
So for a 250 it should be about 10gm then with the 10% off.
Now i have a number to go with
If you can not find the weight you want PM Paul (Dr Pulley) or send him an e-mail.

(All of you can contact (Paul) via unionltd@unionmaterial.com, you can see this e-mail address from our webite www.unionmaterial.com)
Hooked
2009 Piaggio MP3 400ie
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: Austin TX
Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:47 am quote
15 gram sliders from Scooter Trap
larry8 wrote:
If you can not find the weight you want PM Paul (Dr Pulley) or send him an e-mail.

(All of you can contact (Paul) via unionltd@unionmaterial.com, you can see this e-mail address from our webite www.unionmaterial.com)
Ordered 15 gram Dr. Pulley sliders for my 400 from Scooter Trap.

I tried both PM'ing and emailing Paul about ordering some 17 gram sliders but never got a response back from him.

Am still interested in obtaining the 4 "shoes" that usually accompany a slider order from Dr. Pulley. Any ideas on how to obtain these otherwise?

chris
Banned
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 573

Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:13 am quote
Re: 15 gram sliders from Scooter Trap
onsiteaudio wrote:
larry8 wrote:
If you can not find the weight you want PM Paul (Dr Pulley) or send him an e-mail.

(All of you can contact (Paul) via unionltd@unionmaterial.com, you can see this e-mail address from our webite www.unionmaterial.com)
Ordered 15 gram Dr. Pulley sliders for my 400 from Scooter Trap.

I tried both PM'ing and emailing Paul about ordering some 17 gram sliders but never got a response back from him.

Am still interested in obtaining the 4 "shoes" that usually accompany a slider order from Dr. Pulley. Any ideas on how to obtain these otherwise?

chris
He (Paul) may not answer right away. Was a couple of days to answer my e-mails because Taiwan is 12 hours ahead of the USA. The 4 shoes were included with my order, but Paul sent them direct from Union Materials in Taiwan. I don't know if Scooter Trap does this.
Hooked
2009 Piaggio MP3 400ie
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: Austin TX
Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:19 am quote
Re: 15 gram sliders from Scooter Trap
larry8 wrote:
He (Paul) may not answer right away. Was a couple of days to answer my e-mails because Taiwan is 12 hours ahead of the USA. The 4 shoes were included with my order, but Paul sent them direct from Union Materials in Taiwan. I don't know if Scooter Trap does this.
Thanks for the reply.

Yeah I sent the PM and emails to Paul on Tuesday March 3rd of this year and have yet to hear from him.

I'll post whether I receive the 4 "shoes" from Scooter Trap or not.

Chris
Banned
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 573

Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:15 pm quote
Re: 15 gram sliders from Scooter Trap
onsiteaudio wrote:
larry8 wrote:
He (Paul) may not answer right away. Was a couple of days to answer my e-mails because Taiwan is 12 hours ahead of the USA. The 4 shoes were included with my order, but Paul sent them direct from Union Materials in Taiwan. I don't know if Scooter Trap does this.
Thanks for the reply.

Yeah I sent the PM and emails to Paul on Tuesday March 3rd of this year and have yet to hear from him.

I'll post whether I receive the 4 "shoes" from Scooter Trap or not.

Chris
Thats surprising that he didn't answer already. He also gives a discount to us MV members. I'd send another e-mail.
Hooked
2009 Piaggio MP3 400ie
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: Austin TX
Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:35 pm quote
15 gram Dr. Puller slider weights
larry8 wrote:
What I heard & read on the original weights.
The 250 has 11.2gm weights
The 500 has 21gm weights
The 400 has 18.7gm weights (actual weight of my original rollers).

Most people go 10% lighter. I used 17gm Dr Pulley sliders in mine.
Received the 15 gram Dr. Pulley slider weights from Scooter Trap today. I ordered them monday morning and they arrived Wednesday via USPS (mailbox), so a pretty quick turnaround there. The Scooter Trap Dr. Pulley weights do not include the 4 "shoes" that Paul from Dr. Pulley sends along when you order directly from him. I didn't expect the order to include them as it wasn't in the item description but just thought I would mention it in case anyone was wondering.

For the 400, these 15 gram weights are going to be just shy of 20% lighter that the OEM weights. Essentially, the total slider weight difference between the Dr. Pulleys and the original rollers will be just over an ounce lighter. I'm having them installed at the 6K service. I'm currently at 5,500 miles so it won't be too long now.

I'll try emailing Paul from Dr. Pulley again and see if I can't get the 4 "shoes" for the back of these weights from him.

chris
Molto Verboso
Smrfmobile was a 2007 sky blue Piaggio MP3 250ie w/Tow-Pac, Inc. Instatrike B kit
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 1307
Location: south San Francisco bay area, CA
Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:38 pm quote
I recently placed an order for 13gram weights from scootertrap and received them earlier today...my question is what is the extra three pieces of plastic I received? The weights came in a round clear plastic container and the extra is tan pieces of plastic in a small plastic bag w/cardboard header.

And what is the "shoes" you all keep referring to in the above posts and what do they do?
Banned
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 573

Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:58 am quote
smrf wrote:
I recently placed an order for 13gram weights from scootertrap and received them earlier today...my question is what is the extra three pieces of plastic I received? The weights came in a round clear plastic container and the extra is tan pieces of plastic in a small plastic bag w/cardboard header.

And what is the "shoes" you all keep referring to in the above posts and what do they do?
The "shoes" are the guides for the back plate that holds in the rollers.
Thats probably whats in your bag, so when you or your mechanic installs the sliders you can replace the "shoes" at the same time.
Molto Verboso
Smrfmobile was a 2007 sky blue Piaggio MP3 250ie w/Tow-Pac, Inc. Instatrike B kit
Joined: 29 Jul 2008
Posts: 1307
Location: south San Francisco bay area, CA
Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:17 pm quote
So, there are stock 'shoes' in the variator currently that get replaced as well, if I understand correctly?
larry8 wrote:
The "shoes" are the guides for the back plate that holds in the rollers. Thats probably whats in your bag, so when you or your mechanic installs the sliders you can replace the "shoes" at the same time.
Hooked
MP3 400
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 215
Location: Seal Beach, Ca
Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:12 pm quote
Advanced Roadcraft wrote:
To see a J Costa in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-QqHE0bNjw

Best, B
I think that is one of the best, most informative videos Ive seen.
Thanks.
Do you know if there is one for the original variator?



Who ever thought that Youtube could be used to teach as well as share cute cat videos
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 38616
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:12 pm quote
Only by more 'stock shoes'. It's an eyeball judgement call whether to replace them. Cheap as chips though, and new closer-tolerance ones do help reduce wear in other bits. Replaced as standard at the 6000 mile service along with the rollers if the dealer 'goes by the book' (250 excluded).
Banned
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 573

Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:18 pm quote
smrf wrote:
So, there are stock 'shoes' in the variator currently that get replaced as well, if I understand correctly?
larry8 wrote:
The "shoes" are the guides for the back plate that holds in the rollers. Thats probably whats in your bag, so when you or your mechanic installs the sliders you can replace the "shoes" at the same time.
The "shoes" don't really need to be replaced. But the "shoes" that come with the Dr Pulley sliders are of a special plastic compound that is more slick - like teflon - that allows the back plate to glide more easily. Imparts a smoother movement to the variator's functioning.
Member
Piaggio MP3 400ie
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 26
Location: Tring, Herts, UK
Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:25 pm quote
Dr Pulley weights
rille wrote:
The only question would be if one took the Dr Pulley "road", is what weight one should use for best preformance
For my MP3 400ie I was recommended to try 17g first; worked like a charm and never felt the need to experiment further.

Though I have since heard good reports from others who went down to 15g for the same model scoot.

Best, B
Hooked
2009 Piaggio MP3 400ie
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: Austin TX
Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:32 am quote
Dr. Pulley 15 gram sliders
Had the 15 gram sliders installed at my 6K mile service check.

In short, FANTASTIC!!!

The bike feels much more like a motorcycle now than it did previously. Acceleration "off-the-line" feels really great, i.e., BIG GRIN.

There still is just a little bit of shuddering upon take off, but within a couple seconds its gone and the bike just takes off. Very very glad I spent the $50 and went with the Dr. Pulley sliders.

I'll most likely, eventually, go for the J Costa variator. I want to wait it out a bit longer and let some others be the guinea pigs on that one after reading about a couple difficulties of just a few isolated incidences.

All the Best,

chris
Enthusiast
2009 MP3 400ie RL
Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 84
Location: UK
Sat May 16, 2009 7:16 am quote
larry8 wrote:
I'm first going to install the sliders and run for 3 months before I put in the HiT clutch.
After I install mine, I'll post a compairson with the stock clutch.
Have you put the HiT clutch in already larry8? Would be interested to know if I should get that with the sliders for my 400..

Thnx
Banned
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 573

Sat May 16, 2009 8:57 am quote
joe bulva wrote:
larry8 wrote:
I'm first going to install the sliders and run for 3 months before I put in the HiT clutch.
After I install mine, I'll post a compairson with the stock clutch.
Have you put the HiT clutch in already larry8? Would be interested to know if I should get that with the sliders for my 400..

Thnx
I haven't put it in just yet, but am planning to install it next month. From what I read about others that have already installed it, is it engages quicker and smoother with less slippage. Supposidely lasts longer too.
Molto Verboso
MP3 500, Honda PCX
Joined: 20 Jul 2008
Posts: 1123
Location: Dallas, TX
Sat May 16, 2009 10:11 am quote
The guy at scooter trap swears that the 16gm weights he is selling for the Mp3 500 work great. (He doesn't have any heavier ones for the MP3 500.) My concern would be losing top end -- speed or a lot of mpg. Any of you having problems with that? I'm coming up for 6,000 mi check soon and plan to put the 16s in my bike then if that is OK. What I guess I want to know is, "Has anyone put 16s in a 500? And, if so, how did that work out for you?"
Banned
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 573

Sat May 16, 2009 12:05 pm quote
jerryw wrote:
The guy at scooter trap swears that the 16gm weights he is selling for the Mp3 500 work great. (He doesn't have any heavier ones for the MP3 500.) My concern would be losing top end -- speed or a lot of mpg. Any of you having problems with that? I'm coming up for 6,000 mi check soon and plan to put the 16s in my bike then if that is OK. What I guess I want to know is, "Has anyone put 16s in a 500? And, if so, how did that work out for you?"
I've read that the 500 has 21 gm weights as stock. Rule of thumb is to go 10-15% lighter which would be 19 to 17 gm. 16gm is around 20% so it should be OK, but may affect your top end slightly. If your scoot can go 90MPH then it may go down to 88 or so. Most of us don't ever (or seldom) go that fast so loosing that little bit top end may be a moot point.
I put in 17gm sliders in my 400 as stock were 18.7 and I still get 61mpg. I was getting between 60 and 65mpg with the stock rollers, so only a slight decline in mpg.

When I bought my sliders I also ordered a set of 19gm sliders as I didn't know the weight of my original rollers, so I have a set of new unused 19 gm sliders so if your not happy with the 16gm sliders I will sell them for what I paid + shipping (if your interested).

Last edited by larry8 on Sat May 16, 2009 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Member
fuoco
Joined: 13 May 2009
Posts: 11

Sat May 16, 2009 12:19 pm quote
jerryw wrote:
The guy at scooter trap swears that the 16gm weights he is selling for the Mp3 500 work great. (He doesn't have any heavier ones for the MP3 500.) My concern would be losing top end -- speed or a lot of mpg. Any of you having problems with that? I'm coming up for 6,000 mi check soon and plan to put the 16s in my bike then if that is OK. What I guess I want to know is, "Has anyone put 16s in a 500? And, if so, how did that work out for you?"
just pm dr.pully (a user from this forum) he will get you a 19g for your mp3 500
Hooked
Piaggio MP3 250
Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 154
Location: NW Ohio
Tue May 19, 2009 6:08 am quote
Akrimonious wrote:
Advanced Roadcraft wrote:
To see a J Costa in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-QqHE0bNjw

Best, B
I think that is one of the best, most informative videos Ive seen.
Thanks.
Do you know if there is one for the original variator?



Who ever thought that Youtube could be used to teach as well as share cute cat videos
Wow, I just watched the video and it WAS incredibly informative. But for some reason now I feel like I need a cold shower and a cigarette....

-nub
Lurker
lx50
Joined: 04 Mar 2020
Posts: 4
Location: Boston
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:20 am quote
Thanks for the roller vs. Dr. Pulley slider test
Great research. Thanks much. I dropped from 6.5g weights (drilled the stock rollers) to 4.5g on my 2006 Vespa LX 50. I saw large gains but could use a little more RPM. I'm going to take the Pepsi Challenge and order a set of Sliders. I want to order 4g's but that wouldn't be a fair comparison... I'll stick with the 4.5. I can't dyno it or check the RPMS but I will report back on weather I was able to defeat my arch nemesis. He rides a Roughhouse with Dr. Pulley Sliders. Worst part is I bought the wrong size so he swiped them for his ride.
Team Scooter Trash for Petfinder Foundation   vespa scooterwest scooter west Motorsport Scooters   Scooter Parts Company
Post Reply    Forum -> MP3 Discussion Previous1234
[ Time: 0.2657s ][ Queries: 23 (0.1268s) ][ Debug on ]