GTS engine light on dash
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Enthusiast
2006 GTS250ie
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 84
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:36 am quote
This afternoon the amber light on my dash with the engine symbol adjacent to it came on. When the bike was at idle it would go out. All the checks, oil, etc seem normal. I finished my two mile ride home from work and parked it. Seems to run fine but its in the garage now and I'm not planning to take it out until I find out what this requires. A quick search through the owners manual was just about worthless so I hope to pick some quality brains here. Thanks in advance.
Addicted
Vespa GTS , 300CC, Touring.
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 590
Location: leicester uk
Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:52 am quote
hi, not 100% , but it may be something to do with the charging the batt unit ? mart, best to call your dealer if you have one, or look in this site , over the search area, under gts, etc
Ossessionato
09 GTS250ie
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 4469
Location: Charlotte, NC
Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:55 am quote
I had the same problem at around the 800 mile mark on my GTS. It came on while no throttle was applied while moving, stayed on till I came to a stop and then after idling a few seconds went off again.
I read somewhere in the forum that it happens sometimes, "part of the breaking in process." The light has been out since then, has not even flickered.

You could always take your scoot to a dealer and have them hook it up to the computer and check it out. Thats what I would have done if a dealer would have been within 50 miles...

I would check if it comes on when you start it up, and if it does contact a dealer, if not...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the computer on the bike only hold information on the last 10 (???) events, so if it works alright now, and you use it you will not be able to find out what the problem was down the road.

Once thing you could check is if the lambda probe is connected properly, that the thing going into the exhaust with the wire coming out (just in case).

Ok enough rambling, someone who has a good answer chime in now!
Enthusiast
2006 GTS250ie
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 84
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:30 am quote
Mine is over two years old now with a little more than 2000 miles so I can't imagine it would be part of break in at this point. Any other ideas? Thanks.
Rock Star
BMW R1200GS 'The Toilet'
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 8736
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland
Thu Oct 23, 2008 12:21 pm quote
Check the spark plug wire. Otherwise into your dealer for a diagnostic. May be your lambda sensor.
Molto Verboso
Vespa 300 super noir [of course]
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 1175
Location: Location:Location
Thu Oct 23, 2008 1:40 pm quote
The Quasar has an ECU with a separate immobiliser which is built into the aerial, so the ECU must obtain authority from the aerial (active antenna).

Keys should not be on a metal key ring or with other keys. Sometimes this can upset the system.

To Diagnose the system, turn the ignition on with a Normal key (not the master key) and note the LED on the dash.

Listed below is what options the LED will show, find out what yours does, get the reference letter (IE yours is doing as described in C... then go further down for more details on the fault and cure)

A= Single 2sec flash, then LED stays OFF.

B= Single 2sec flash, then 2 quick 0.5sec flashes, then LED stays ON.

C= Single 0.7sec flash, then 1 quick 0.5sec flash, then LED stays ON.

D= Single 0.7sec flash, then 2 quick 0.5sec flashes, then LED stays ON.

E= Single 0.7sec flash, then 3 quick 0.5sec flashes, then LED stays ON.

Further details on the codes above...

A= ECU is not programmed.
The LED gives a single two second flash. The Engine management light will be on.
You should get this code when you have fitted a new ECU.
The immobiliser system is working correctly and only needs programming.

B= ECU is not programmed. Transponder is not detected.
The LED gives a single two second flash, then two short flashes, then comes back on..
The ECU is not programmed (as above) but also the chip in the key has not been detected.
You must resolve the transponder problem before trying to program the ECU.
The master key will give this fault if the chip is hinged out.
If you have another key try that, if it is still not detected it is probably the aerial.
Verify that the aerial is correctly located and secure in it's mounting around the ignition lock.

C= Break in the Serial line.
A single short flash, pause, then a second short flash, LED then comes back on.
There is a break in the wire between the ECU and the aerial (active antenna).
The Orange / White wire on pin 7. is the link.

D= Transponder is not detected.
A single short flash, then two short flashes, then comes back on.
The chip in the key has not been seen.
Either there is a fault with the key or the aerial.
If you have another key try that, if it is still not detected it is probably the aerial.
Verify that the aerial is correctly located and secure in it's mounting around the ignition lock.

E= Transponder is not recognised.
A single short flash, then three short flashes, then comes back on.
The chip in the key is seen be is not recognised.
The key is not programmed into the immobiliser memory.
You are using the wrong key or it needs to be programmed into the immobiliser memory.

Only when the LED remains OFF should the engine start.

Dealers can use the Digitec or Axone tester to read fault codes from the ECU about the problem, but it doesnt tell us much more than the above info, although you can see how many keys there are coded to the ECU etc.

If you have a immobilizer fault that just suddenly appears, and its LED flashing code works out to be A in the above table, then before you try anything else, check the HT lead and plug cap, It is possible that extreme electrical interference from a faulty HT circuit could upset the immobiliser. Plug cap must be at least 5000 ohms. Change the cap and lead if suspect. A resistor spark plug must be used. Then try re-programming the immobiliser. If it will not re-program then it is faulty.

A normal fully working machine should do the following LED sequence..

SERVICE Key ON, One short 0.7sec flash then LED OFF... Machine will start and run.

Or if you use the master key....

Master Key ON, One short 0.7sec flash, then a number of short 0.5sec flashes then LED OFF... machine will start and run. (the number of short 0.5sec flashes depends on the amount of keys you have coded to the system upto a maximum of 7, so 2 flashes means 2 working keys and so on.)
Enthusiast
GTS250
Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 50
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:04 pm quote
Cabo,

Let me get this clear. As soon as you turn on the ignition (without starting) the light goes on. Then when you start the bike the light goes off. Thats what you mean by saying it goes off when idling.

So what happens to the light when the scooter is normally running? Does the light stay off. Because if it does, all seems normal to me. Thats what my bike seems to do. If the light stays on while idling and you are using your bike normallly, then I would be concerned. Maybe a mole hill out of nothing here.
Ossessionato
'07 GTS-250ie "Silver"
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 2012
Location: the Queen City of the West, aka Porkopolis
Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:14 pm quote
maver wrote:
The Quasar has an ECU with a separate immobiliser which is built into the aerial, so the ECU must obtain authority from the aerial (active antenna).
That's all correct, EXCEPT, that the aerial is only the communication link (antenna and RF modem) between the ECU and the key. The key's identity is stored in the ECU, and it's the ECU itself that authorizes a start. I recently replaced my antenna, and did not have to reprogram with the master key.

Best next step is to query the ECU for faults.
Enthusiast
2006 GTS250ie
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 84
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:19 pm quote
scionman wrote:
Cabo,

Let me get this clear. As soon as you turn on the ignition (without starting) the light goes on. Then when you start the bike the light goes off. Thats what you mean by saying it goes off when idling.

So what happens to the light when the scooter is normally running? Does the light stay off. Because if it does, all seems normal to me. Thats what my bike seems to do. If the light stays on while idling and you are using your bike normallly, then I would be concerned. Maybe a mole hill out of nothing here.
After the bike starts the light is off. As I take off and get up to speed (RPM) the light comes on steady. At a red traffic light the engine light goes off again. Light comes back on as I accelerate and stays on until I stop again. So far that is the sequence every time.

I haven't checked of the blink codes yet.
Ossessionato
09 GTS250ie
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 4469
Location: Charlotte, NC
Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:28 pm quote
I think some are getting things mixed up here, most probably me. With the key authorization the code light blinks, the red one, correct? And the light in this topic is the amber engine light... Or am I missing something here??
Ossessionato
'07 GTS-250ie "Silver"
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 2012
Location: the Queen City of the West, aka Porkopolis
Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:29 pm quote
Midnight Rider wrote:
I think some are getting things mixed up here, most probably me. With the key authorization the code light blinks, the red one, correct? And the light in this topic is the amber engine light... Or am I missing something here??
You're right; we're talking the amber "ignition fault" light - not the red "code" light. It's the code light that flashes immobilizer fault codes.
CAPO wrote:
After the bike starts the light is off. As I take off and get up to speed (RPM) the light comes on steady. At a red traffic light the engine light goes off again. Light comes back on as I accelerate and stays on until I stop again. So far that is the sequence every time.

I haven't checked of the blink codes yet.
Sounds like you don't have an immobilizer issue (blink code) - if you did, the bike wouldn't start. Sounds instead like you have an "injection load" (fuel injector, lambda probe) or ignition issue.
Hooked
yellow GTS250ie black GTS250ie
Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Posts: 237

Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:47 pm quote
My engine light on my 250 came on once. This is weird but I opened the gas cap to release any pressure there might be in the tank and the light went out. Try it.
It's possible I overfilled the tank or spilled some in the overflow.
Never did figure it out but no light since.
Rock Star
BMW R1200GS 'The Toilet'
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 8736
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland
Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:18 pm quote
If you read the OP carefully you will see it is the ENGINE light that is being discussed not the IMMOBILISER light.

I thought I was losing my marbles....

Repeat, check your plug wire and conection to your lambda sensor!
Molto Verboso
Vespa 300 super noir [of course]
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
Posts: 1175
Location: Location:Location
Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:53 am quote
disconnect battery leave for a minute, reconnect battery, start scooter and let it IDLE for 10 minutes minimum, this will reset the ECU and fuelling setting, engine revs may rise and fall during the idling this is where the ECU is finding the optimum setting.
Moderaptor
2xGP800, Fuoco, X9 500 Evo, The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug), 'Olive' (GT200) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 31286
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:19 am quote
And if the ECU warning light comes on again when riding, check your regulator o/p - this is often the first sign of a charging problem, usually over-volts that'll cane the battery fairly soon.

After a ride, measure the volts across the battery while revving the engine and while the ECU warning light is on again - if the volts are over 14.6V you need a new regulator. BTDTGTTS...
Enthusiast
2006 GTS250ie
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 84
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:07 pm quote
Here is the final solution (for now). I rode my GTS out to the dealer's service department yesterday afternoon. Its about 7-8 miles out there with moderate traffic. The light was on all the way out there. I parked it by the window and the service manager came out and restarted it..........no light! The Vespa "specialist" took it for a 20 minute ride..........no light. They pronounced it magically cured and I got back on and rode it home......no light. There has been no recurrence of the light problem today and everything seems normal. Bizarre! I guess we'll see how long it stays off now.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 1319
Location: Monterey Ca.
Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:15 pm quote
CAPO wrote:
Here is the final solution (for now). I rode my GTS out to the dealer's service department yesterday afternoon. Its about 7-8 miles out there with moderate traffic. The light was on all the way out there. I parked it by the window and the service manager came out and restarted it..........no light! The Vespa "specialist" took it for a 20 minute ride..........no light. They pronounced it magically cured and I got back on and rode it home......no light. There has been no recurrence of the light problem today and everything seems normal. Bizarre! I guess we'll see how long it stays off now.
It was just homesick

...all better now.
Member
2008 Vespa GTS 250 i.e.
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Miami, Florida
Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:47 am quote
Engine management fault light
I have a new 2008 GTS 250 i.e.. At about 100 miles the engine management light would come on as I slow to a stop without throttle from 25 mph to stop. It also appeared to have a rought idle. The light remains lit until I apply throttle and speed up over 25 mph. The light does not go on with throttle and speed. I brought it into the dealer and they determined it was a lambda sensor fault. They replaced the sensor and all was well for 1 day. The next day while riding the light came on again under the same circumstances with one additional symptom. As I pulled in the garage the fan in the left side of the leg shield went on and it was quite loud. I am new to this forum and I have read some threads with similar but not the same experience and there does not appear to be an answer to this issue that I can find. Needless to say I am very dissapointed with the product. It is touted as the best, it is certainly the most expensive, and I should not be experiencing these problems on a brand new vehicle. I would appreciate any help. Thanks
Molto Verboso
Black Molly - GTS 300 Harley Super Glide
Joined: 08 Jun 2008
Posts: 1198
Location: Essen, Germany
Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:24 pm quote
marc wrote:
It was just homesick

...all better now.
Ossessionato
3,000 or bust!
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 3073

Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:09 pm quote
Re: Engine management fault light
klpesq wrote:
I have a new 2008 GTS 250 i.e.. At about 100 miles the engine management light would come on as I slow to a stop without throttle from 25 mph to stop. It also appeared to have a rought idle. The light remains lit until I apply throttle and speed up over 25 mph. The light does not go on with throttle and speed. I brought it into the dealer and they determined it was a lambda sensor fault. They replaced the sensor and all was well for 1 day. The next day while riding the light came on again under the same circumstances with one additional symptom. As I pulled in the garage the fan in the left side of the leg shield went on and it was quite loud. I am new to this forum and I have read some threads with similar but not the same experience and there does not appear to be an answer to this issue that I can find. Needless to say I am very dissapointed with the product. It is touted as the best, it is certainly the most expensive, and I should not be experiencing these problems on a brand new vehicle. I would appreciate any help. Thanks
Here’s a quote about cars. “J.D. Power and Associates 2008 Initial Quality StudySM (IQS) released today. Overall quality improves to 118 problems per 100 vehicles (PP100) in 2008, down from 125 PP100 in 2007.” and “The Porsche 911 has the fewest quality problems in the industry, with just 67 problems per 100 vehicles.”.
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008063

Perhaps your expectations of new vehicle quality are too high; but you should expect your dealer to find and fix the problem. Take it back & suggest there’s more to the issue than they thought. Is your second complaint that the cooling fan is too loud, or that it’s working at all? In a car the radiator fan six feet away from you, with sound deadening & the radio in between. On a scooter the fan’s a foot or two away from your knees without intervening barriers. The loud fan is normal.
My GTS had flaws when delivered (jumpy speedo), but I still love the bike and don’t regret buying it for one second.
Good luck with your concerns!

Harvey
Member
2008 Vespa GTS 250 i.e.
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Miami, Florida
Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:19 pm quote
Engine Management Fault
My reference to the leg shield fan was just an additional fact that I threw out there in hopes that this information together with everything else may lead to an answer to my problem. Don't get me wrong. I love the machine but I am dissapointed that it is not perfect. I understand that it is a mechanical device which has its quirks and may have problems from time to time but it is nevertheless disappointing that issues arose so soon after I took delivery. My main concern of course is the engine light. I frankly never heard the leg shield fan before and I have travelled over 300 miles so far.
Molto Verboso
'05 Vespa Granturismo
Joined: 22 Apr 2008
Posts: 1480
Location: Rancho Cordova, California
Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:20 pm quote
Makes me glad I have a GT200. My amber light just means "Low Fuel".
Ossessionato
09 GTS250ie
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 4469
Location: Charlotte, NC
Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:54 pm quote
Re: Engine Management Fault
klpesq wrote:
I love the machine but I am dissapointed that it is not perfect. I understand that it is a mechanical device which has its quirks and may have problems from time to time but it is nevertheless disappointing that issues arose so soon after I took delivery.
Sorry to hear you have a similar problem which I had.
I think it is more disappointing that the dealer could not fix it right!

My problem went away again by itself, but yours seems to hang on in there. Take it back to the dealer and have them look at it again.

The fan on the GTS250 only comes on when it really has to. I was riding around in 115°F last year and never did the fan come on. Only when I was stuck in stop and go traffic did it come on. I only really noticed because my leg got warm (warmer than it usually was in 115°) and I heard a slight "fan sound" first thought it was the car next to me... It could be that it was louder than for me because you where pulling into the garage, enclosed space and all.

Hope you get it all figured out!
Member
2008 Vespa GTS 250 i.e.
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Miami, Florida
Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:14 pm quote
Engine Management Fault
Thanks for the imput. I will be having the scoot towed to the dealer tomorrow. I will keep you all posted so that in the future those in need may benefit from my (unpleasant) experience.
Ossessionato
3,000 or bust!
Joined: 12 Nov 2006
Posts: 3073

Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:29 pm quote
Sorry if I came across harshly (but under warranty is the really the best time to have these problems). Have you overfilled the gas tank? Sometimes gas overflow can clog the emission control system & cause rough idling.

The fans are surprising the first time Damn Gt fan scared the piss outa me..! ">}), Radiator Fan. Took seven months & a traffic jam for mine to kick in the first time.

Harvey
Member
2008 Vespa GTS 250 i.e.
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Miami, Florida
Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:32 pm quote
Engine Management Fault
You did not come off harshly. I appreciate this forum and its members. It is a fantastic resource for all that is Vespa and a great outlet to commiserate with those who share my passion for the line make. It is precisely because I care so much about my GTS that it bothers me so much when things go wrong.
Member
2007 LX150
Joined: 26 Dec 2007
Posts: 6
Location: Oklahoma City
Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:27 pm quote
Engine Management Fault
My 2007 GTS250ie was showing the amber colored ECU fault light and it turned out to be the voltage regulator. It cost me $194.96 for the part and I installed it myself. I discovered this might be the problem when I checked the voltage across the battery terminals while idling the motor. It was reading 17 + volts or more. Too much, it should be a little over 14. I have already replaced the battery once, and no wonder. At the time I replaced the battery I did not think about the fact it could be overcharging. I wish I'd of checked this while it had a warranty. It is difficult to install. If it turns out to be this you may wish to have the dealer install. The part number is 58086R. Actually a factory Ducati part.

Last edited by pisello on Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 1031

Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:20 am quote
The ECU light is an indicator that the ECU sees something that its unhappy about, in somecases it will just light up, in other cases it will prevent start up/running, depends how serious the fault is.

If it came on when the RPMS went up, but went off at Idle its 99% a regulator issue, and the ECU was seeing the charge rate go higher than its parameters allowed so it was warning you.

The ECU can remember an infinite amount of fault codes, it also remembers faults that were in the system but have no gone, and when plugged into the navigator diagnostic tool, it can recall faults from the past that have been fixed and gone...

But as the lights gone off, wait and see what happens, it couldve just been a damp connection... but i would recommend checking the brown multiplug under the seat tub from the stator, if this gets a little corrosion it can cause this effect and eventually over heat and melt...
Member
2008 Vespa GTS 250 i.e.
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
Posts: 5
Location: Miami, Florida
Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:53 am quote
Engine Management Fault
My problem is the engine management fault light goes on while slowing down without throttle from about 25 mph to 0. Then the light remains lit until I apply throttle and speed up over 20 mph. The dealer told me that this does not indicate a voltage regulator problem. In any event, I took the bike to the dealer and he replaced the fuel injector. He also indicated that no fault was stored in the ECU when checked and asked if I had disconnected the battery at any time. Of course I never touched the battery. Needless to say I am now concerned that the root of the problem is deeper, perhaps the ECU itself. The dealer did not think so and I have not had an opportunity to ride the bike long enough to determine if the problem has been corrected by the lambda sensor and fuel injector replacement. I will keep you all up to date.
Ossessionato
'07 GTS-250ie "Silver"
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 2012
Location: the Queen City of the West, aka Porkopolis
Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:46 pm quote
Re: Engine Management Fault
klpesq wrote:
My problem is the engine management fault light goes on while slowing down without throttle from about 25 mph to 0. Then the light remains lit until I apply throttle and speed up over 20 mph. The dealer told me that this does not indicate a voltage regulator problem. In any event, I took the bike to the dealer and he replaced the fuel injector. He also indicated that no fault was stored in the ECU when checked and asked if I had disconnected the battery at any time. Of course I never touched the battery. Needless to say I am now concerned that the root of the problem is deeper, perhaps the ECU itself. The dealer did not think so and I have not had an opportunity to ride the bike long enough to determine if the problem has been corrected by the lambda sensor and fuel injector replacement. I will keep you all up to date.
I'm following your shop's reasoning. I can see why they might have expected to see something in the ECU's fault buffer. When they had the diagnostic tester connected, they would be able to display the drive to the fuel injector in real time with the engine running and compare to expected values. If the ECU were bad, I'd expect that to be off. So I see why they might suspect the injector. But, it could be the injector driver output in the ECU, too. Best at this point to ride it and see how it does.
Ossessionato
09 GTS250ie
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 4469
Location: Charlotte, NC
Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:56 pm quote
Well mine came back on today. I was riding over a hill with steep inclines, but I only noticed it came on on the way down on the other side. I kept on riding, slowly, seeing if it might go off again, but it didn't. I then stopped, switched the scoot off and on again, but it was back in a few seconds. I then rode at about 30 mph for a few min to see if the lower power would turn it off, which it did not. Only once I opened it up again riding 70mph did it go off, but came back on again when I slowed to about 45. It stayed on from there on till I turned the scoot off in the garage.
I guess I will be taking it to the dealer asap....
Enthusiast
Pearl 2001 ET2, Black 2006 GTS 250ie
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Houston, Texas
Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:45 am quote
CAPO wrote:
After the bike starts the light is off. As I take off and get up to speed (RPM) the light comes on steady. At a red traffic light the engine light goes off again. Light comes back on as I accelerate and stays on until I stop again. So far that is the sequence every time.
I had the same thing happen today -- a very humid and warm, drizzly day.

I will check the voltage regulator output (Should be <14 volts, 13.9 max I believe), but as found in other threads here I will also consider doing some or all of the following:

Check spark plug cap, connection at coil, spark plug, connection at O2 Sensor (on head pipe):
  1. Spark plug wire boot can seem like its on tight but it may not be.
  2. O2 sensor connector plug, especially after changing rear tire
  3. Check the large connector plug that's lays on a shelf under the seat near the front of the scooter. Unplug it spray with a bit of contact cleaner and reconnect it. 
  4. Check the brown multiplug under the seat tub from the stator, if this gets a little corrosion it can cause this effect and eventually over heat and melt...
  5. Replace Champion plug with an NGK Iridium Plug (that's a whole nother thread).
  6. Adding injector cleaner to resolve a clogged injector (I did have the scoot almost stall on me once).


Now, since it could be just humidity related, I will also reset the ECU per the helpful instructions earlier in this thread.

Also if I find that it is the voltage regulator, I'll refer to this thread for DIY replacement tips:
http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic25579
Member
GTS 250ie
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 36
Location: sandy springs GA
Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:01 am quote
I think Jim C's assesment is correct.
Capo, I have a 2006 250ie and had the exact same issue 3 months back. I checked the voltage at the battery with the engine off and on. Result, 12v engine off, 18v at idle! My voltage regulator was bad. I ordered a new one, put it on (not too difficult) and now the scoot runs better than ever! No kidding, it really is running super. It is such and easy thing to check you should give it a try if you have not allready solved your problem.

Good Luck!
Addicted
2006 Red GTS 250, 2007 MP3 250, 2005 PX150
Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Posts: 916
Location: Huntington Beach, CA
Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:09 am quote
Voltage Regulator
CAPO wrote:
After the bike starts the light is off. As I take off and get up to speed (RPM) the light comes on steady. At a red traffic light the engine light goes off again. Light comes back on as I accelerate and stays on until I stop again. So far that is the sequence every time.

I haven't checked of the blink codes yet.
I had this exact problem on my 2006 GTS. I didn't notice it at first because the light was out at idle and only on when when I was riding at above 3200 RPM or so (when I'm not looking at my dash). It would go out when ever I dropped back down to idle.

Once I verified the sequence of lights I called the dealer, who couldn't diagnose it over it over the phone, but when I got it in there, they were able to figure out it was the voltage regulator, and replaced the part for me. I'm not a DYI'er, so I had an extended warranty that paid for the whole thing including the tow! About $400.
I'm glad I didn't ride it much with the light on! They told me it was common, especially in the early GTS' to see the Voltage Regulators go out, mine had lasted longer than mos.
Enthusiast
2006 GTS250ie
Joined: 03 Sep 2006
Posts: 84
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:47 pm quote
Oh the light problem is fixed. They rebuilt the top end for over $1100 and it backfired for a year like a guy who had eaten a gallon of refritos. The dealer said it was the best they could do and it was normal. They said they called Vespa.

Then it died........about 2 weeks ago. Got about two blocks form home and it stopped and was totally dead and wouldn't turn over although the dash looked normal. Towed in the same day......they don't know what's wrong with it. I'm stuck as this is the only dealer on the island.

It still has less than 3000 miles on it. It has been in the shop for more than 6 months of the three years I've owned it. I'm sick of Vespa. It goes on the auction block if they ever get it running and I'll settle for a 50cc commie scoot that can be repaired here. Or maybe I'll buy another car to replace it.
Member
GTS 250ie
Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 36
Location: sandy springs GA
Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:20 am quote
Well that certainly sucks...
Sorry to hear about your bad experience. Nothing like a shop where they can't fix what they sell. Maybe time for a motorcycle?
Enthusiast
Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 54
Location: Charlotte, NC
Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:35 pm quote
I am seeing what seems to be a similar problem as reported in this post and others. I am providing a background of my bike for informational purposes.

Background;
1. My bike is a 2006 GTS 250ie with about 6200 miles on it. I purchased it new.
2. All of the work on my vespa has been done by the dealer until this year.
3. This year I changed the oil, oil filter and hub oil on this bike as part of annual service. I also installed a new battery because the one that came with the bike has gone bad.
4. I keep the bike on a battery tender when it is not in use, usually when I get home from work until the next morning when I ride it back to work.
5. The bike is generally ridden back and forth to work which is about 12 miles round trip. As you would expect, there are other trips from time to time, but the majority of them are back and forth to work.
6. I average about 80/mpg on my GTS.
7. I printed out the service manual and owner’s manual for the bike and have them for reference since I am doing my own work now.


I took my bike for its first long distance ride today; it was about 100 miles one-way most of which was interstate driving. During my return trip, the light for the engine came one several times during my trip on the interstate. The gas tank was about half empty when I first noticed the light and it would come on and go off. A few miles before I arrived home, I filled up the gas tank because it was pretty close to empty. After filling up the tank, I kept an eye on the light and it came on once or twice between the time I filled up and arrived home, which is about 3-4 miles. I want to say the light did go off after I slowed down to a stop light, but will need to do more testing to confirm this behavior.

Once I arrived home, I checked out ModernVespa’s website for information about the check engine light on my GTS and found several things of interest in various posts.

1. Check the stator wires
2. Check the plug wire.
3. Check the voltage regulator.
4. Check the sensors


As a result of what I found in these posts and looking at the service manual on the subject of electrical systems I have some questions about the items above. I am trying to go with the easiest items first and work my way to the more difficult items. I will have to go out and do some riding around to get the error to show up again to test some of the items explained in previous posts but below are some questions I have that are I feel might be on topic before I ride again.

Questions:
1. It looks like the resistance should be tested on the male stator wires based upon the feedback I am getting on my meter? Does that sound correct?
2. Does the battery need to be disconnected on the scooter? What I have read seems to say no, because power is only allowed one way from the stator? But I do not know for certain.
3. The test should be done for various combinations of the male prongs? In other words, from 1 to 2, 1 to 3 and 2 to 3? My meter may just be bad, but it shows values within range based upon the service manual, as well as constantly changing values and it also shows values that are out of range as if there is a problem. Based upon what I can determine from the service manual, all values in the cases I noted above should be between .2 and 1 for resistance?
4. If my stator is OK and it is just my meter or an IBM error, my next item to check is the voltage regulator. I think I follow what the service manual is saying on ELE SYS- 23 #3 “3) Turn the ignition key to the off position, connect the tester terminal between the negative pole (-) of the battery and the Black wire and then separate the Black wire from the battery negative (-) pole” but do not follow what this is doing? It sounds like the negative probe from my meter is only connected to the negative terminal. Reason I ask is I want to make sure I do this correctly and do not damage my meter or bike and would like to understand that is going on in general with this test.
5. The next test from the service manual is the charging voltage check. One step in there is to make sure the lights are not running? Is it OK to just remove the light bulbs for this test case? I want to make sure I am doing this correctly correctly.
6. In the end, should it end up being a sensor causing the problem, how to test without buying new sensors? Or is that even possible?

I suspect my problem is going to be the one that is most common, but if I go through this exercise it might help others and at least help me for future questions in this general area. I do appreciate any help or feedback you may have for me on this subject.
Ossessionato
'07 GTS-250ie "Silver"
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 2012
Location: the Queen City of the West, aka Porkopolis
Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:15 am quote
You've done quite a good job describing what you see. It sounds to me like your voltage regulator is bad.

As engine (and alternator) RPM increase, alternator voltage (AC) output increases. The voltage regulator rectifies AC to DC, and limits DC output voltage to about 14½ volts, so as not to overdrive the electricals and so the battery charges properly. If the regulator fails, its output voltage rises too high; the ECU will then display a fault at the warning light. I think this is what you're seeing.

To answer your questions:
1. I don't remember whether the alternator terminals are pins (male) or sockets (female) at the underseat connector. But they have yellow wires going to them.
2. The battery does not have to be disconnected to measure stator winding resistance. By undoing the alternator connector, you isolate the stator from the rest of the system. The regulator blocks DC to the stator anyway.
3. You're correct: measure across pins 1-2, 1-3, and 2-3. You're probably getting those erratic readings becuase your probes aren't making a solid connection to the pins. It can be tricky sometimes. And yes, the resistance across any two pins should be between 0.2 and 1.0 Ω.
4. What they're having you do there is to measure leakage (slow drain) current with the bike turned off. The idea is to disconnect the negative battery terminal, then put one probe of your meter (set to measure current, not voltage!) to the negative terminal and the other probe to the wire you just disconnected. That way all leakage current also passes through the meter. Leakage current should be 0.5 mA.
5. I'd go ahead and do the charging voltage check first. It's easy and should go straight to the cause of your problem. The most direct way to check it would be to measure the voltage across the battery with the engine revved. It should be no more than about 14.5 V. I don't see that disconnecting the lights is really necessary - I think they have you do that to keep load (thus revving speed) to a minimum. If you still want to do it, you could pull fuses #7 (15 A, headlight) and #10 (7.5 A, running lights) in the glovebox fuse block. Don't be confounded that there are only six fuses in the glovebox - the first four fuses are in the engine compartment. You may want to have a helper steady the bike (from the rear!) as you rev it up, to make sure it doesn't come off the center stand!
6. I doubt any of your sensors has gone bad. A check with a diagnostic data reader would tell. Your dealer's shop will be able to do this for you. Since you bought your bike from them, they may do a diagnostic read as a courtesy.

This may come in handy: [topic22962].

If your voltage regulator is indeed bad, your dealer can order one for you. The part number is 58086R. It's not difficult to replace.

Hope this helps…
Enthusiast
Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 54
Location: Charlotte, NC
Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:29 pm quote
Saturday afternoon I checked the voltage at the battery. I only got a high reading around 14.2v or maybe 14.3v. I had the bike running for about half an hour. I had the bike up to about 6-7000 RPMS at times and during my testing the light on the dashboard did not come on except when I first cranked the bike, which is expected.
Something I did hear (not expecting) while it was reving the bike, is around 7000rpms I could hear something that sounded like pocket change in the dryer rattling, but higher pitched. I suspect the reason I have not heard it before is because my helmet, the distance between my ear and the motor when riding as well as road noise when I am riding. I found several posts on this subject so I will follow up on them before posting anything related to this topic.

Today, Sunday I decided to take it for a ride this afternoon and see if the light would come on under real road conditions. Well, the light did not come back on during my 30-mile ride around town. I had several things to do, so I took the bike and made a point of running slow 25mph-35mph, average 45mph - 55mph and even fast which today was about 65mph and possibly a little faster. While I was out, I stopped by a full service auto parts store (Pep Boys) and had them plug the battery machine up to my bike and they tested the batter and even read the voltage while the bike was idle and running. I could not rev to hard, because of the vibrations causing the bike to move on the center stand in the service bay, but the highest the machine recorded was 14.2v maybe 14.3v. My bike was on the machine about 5 mins.

Before I rest easy, is 14.2v or 14.3v high? Cincinnati John noted "around 14.5 volts". If the numbers I reported are OK, then I am happy and sad about these findings.

I am happy that for now, it appears I do not have to put any money into my bike and also that I learned something new about how it works, thanks for all the feedback Cincinnati John. I still plan to do the other items, but since I could not get a good reading with my meter, I picked up some wire clips this evening while I was out and I will use them to try and get a better reading next weekend weather permitting and better lighting. I just hope the wire clips do not mess with the reading from the meter.

I am sad in that I do not like unanswered questions on something that I depend on to get me back and forth to work and even around town for leisure. I do have some questions about my findings and would appreciate any feedback or pointers in the right direction you might have on the subject.

1. Is this problem typical where the light comes on, but unable to reproduce the problem later? It might be that this light coming on means there is a problem but it is not very bad yet and the money spending will come later once the problem has had time to become worse. I did find some information while looking around for my #3 question below and found another post on this subject http://www.modernvespa.com/forum/topic50269?highlight=diagnostic+software. My symptoms were not exactly the same, but he reported just finished a long hard ride like I did. I plan to include the items noted in that post when I follow up next weekend with the rest of my other checks. Any thoughts on the similarities? I refueled and in the next few miles the light came back on, the driving was city so my speed was 35mph max.

2. Given the fact that I did a long hard ride before the light started coming on, does it make sense that the issue might be a sensor given what I have found Saturday and today while out riding around town? I am not sure myself given the link I found above while looking around? Thoughts?

3. Is there software out there (outside the manufacture and cheaper) that could be used to talk with the computer to get the error codes? I suspect not considering the hardware is all proprietary, but figured I would ask because the software packages seems a bit expensive. I have two bikes and I would want it to work for both my BV500 and GTS250, which might be a stretch. Given the information I see in other posts around the diagnostic software it would seem that you have to have a clue about the hardware? I was expecting something from the computer like, sensor 0001 is not working correctly check it out. Lookup sensor 0001 and see it is the oxygen sensor, but is there really more to it? Serial communications is not rocket science; I am a computer programmer by trade and have done serial communications projects as part of projects. Is there any public information on how to talk with the scooter computer? I have worked on the software side, but have not had much experience on the hardware side, so there might be a huge difference and why it will not work as I would expected. But figured I would ask if for nothing else my own information.


On a side note, I guess I need to spend time looking at how the search works here at modern vespa, because I should have found the link from "marco_luigi" before I posted my question but did not. I remember seeing around 17000 returns on my search and just did not visit all of them, not sure at this point. I will work through this myself.

Thanks for all your feedback Cincinnati John on this subject.
Hooked
Gts 250 Gilera runner Husqvarna 510 dual sport .lots of bicycles.
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 337
Location: Santa Ana, CA.
Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:15 pm quote
Just had the same problem. Voltage regulator was the problem. Mossimos scooter shop replaces one a week with the same problem. Light comes on when you open up the throttle but not at idle. Hope my chime in helpy you.

John
Cross Egypt Challenge - A 2400km ride throughout Egypt   Maroon Powersports LLC DBA Scooter Centrale   Yelcome Leather Top Cases and Roll Bags for Piaggio Vespa PX LX LXV GTS GTV
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