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Member
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Location: Seattle, WA
 
Member
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Location: Seattle, WA
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Hi vespa community. I posted a message months ago asking about a Vespa for a 16 year old teenager partly due to gas prices. I am now 17 and even with gas prices down, I still have the "vespa" bug. Obviously, I'm a teenager with a limited budget and would love a Vespa as a local (roads 30 mph and less mostly) to tool around town with. At this time in my life, I do not have time for the motorcycle safety course so I need to stay 50cc and less. I will definitely proceed with all caution and I am NOT a wild driver. I live in WA state. Anyways, I was looking on CL and saw a 1978 Bravo for sale for $750. It looks MINT (from the pictures, of course I'd have to see it) and has 3xx original miles. What is the story with this model? Maintenance nightmare? Where would I get something like this maintained? What is a realistic price for this machine -- I have done some research and some people say spend NO more then $200 for a bike like this. This is the "deluxe" model with turn signals (a must need for me -- I won't ride a bike without turn signals. Another concern of mine is the 2-stroke engine. Although very ignorant about the workings of engines in general, I know 2-strokes require a mixture of oil. How does that exactly work? Is it tough to figure out?

The things I'd like to find out: reasonable price for this model? Reliability (I know vintage things require more work...)? OK for minor use -- short trips (I have a car)? Impossible to find parts for? Take it to my local Shell station for service?

Obviously I have a lot of questions. I would love a Vespa -- especially for college. I could see bringing something like this moped around with me in college. Most people don't have cars in college and I think in an urban environment, a car would be a major hassle. Plus, I want to be as green as possible though I love SUVs!

Thanks in advance for helping a newbie!
@ianp avatar
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Destroyer of Worlds
LML Star 125, Vespa GT200
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Posts: 2011
Location: London, United Kingdom
 
Destroyer of Worlds
@ianp avatar
LML Star 125, Vespa GT200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2011
Location: London, United Kingdom
UTC quote
Unfortunately, you're asking on the wrong forum. The Vespa Ciao and Bravo models are mopeds, and this is a scooter forum. Some members may have experience to share, but don't be surprised if you don't get much of a response. Try asking on moped forums.
@got_mine avatar
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Molto Verboso
2007 LX190 RIP 1980 Honda CM400T SOLD 2013 Shadow 750 RIP
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Location: Crofton,MD
 
Molto Verboso
@got_mine avatar
2007 LX190 RIP 1980 Honda CM400T SOLD 2013 Shadow 750 RIP
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Posts: 1496
Location: Crofton,MD
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Try MOPEDARMY.com.
Mopeds only, lots of knowledge...
@aviator47 avatar
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Moderator
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
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@aviator47 avatar
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
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got mine wrote:
Try MOPEDARMY.com.
Mopeds only, lots of knowledge...
AND, a fair number of Seattle area members

Al
@quasi-moto avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
SawStop
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Location: Puyallup, WA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@quasi-moto avatar
SawStop
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Location: Puyallup, WA
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And...someone has to say it...if you are too busy for the motorcycle safety course, you may be too busy to ride. Your life could depend on it.

Best of luck in your search.
@xantufrog avatar
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Moderibbit
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
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Moderibbit
@xantufrog avatar
1980 P200E - "Old Rusty", 1976 ET3 Primavera
Joined: UTC
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Location: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Vespa Bravo
ScooterTeen wrote:
Another concern of mine is the 2-stroke engine. Although very ignorant about the workings of engines in general, I know 2-strokes require a mixture of oil. How does that exactly work? Is it tough to figure out?
Two stroke engines can be as reliable as you can find given that they are extremely simple. Only a few moving parts on the engine of these sort of mopeds for something to go wrong with them. I had a 1977 Puch moped (well two, actually) and they still live on to this day.

On a basic machine like that you would most likely have to premix the oil yourself. There are appropriate ratios of 2-stroke oil to gallons of gas - in the case of the Puch there was actually a 1 gallon gas tank and a little filler cup on the underside of the gas cap. You put a gallon of gas in and one filler cup of 2-stroke oil and you shook the bike back and forth to slosh the two fluids together and then ride! If the Bravo doesn't come with such a measuring cup for the oil or instructions printed on it (it very well may have a sticker somewhere, maybe near where it indicates correct tire pressures and such) one of those forums should be able to tell you the right mixture for that model. Then you buy a 2 gallon jerry can, fill it with a gallon or so of gas, measure in the correct amount of oil, shake the can up, and fill up the gas tank.
ScooterTeen wrote:
Obviously I have a lot of questions. I would love a Vespa -- especially for college. I could see bringing something like this moped around with me in college. Most people don't have cars in college and I think in an urban environment, a car would be a major hassle. Plus, I want to be as green as possible though I love SUVs!
As many have noted it isn't really a scooter, so if you haven't seen pics don't expect a typical "vespa" look to this bike. There were 50cc vespa SCOOTERS you can always look for (including modern ones such as my ET2 or the LX50). One thing to note about "being green" is that 2-stroke engines, especially vintage/classic ones spit out a lot of pollution, so they aren't clean to ride. Any "greenness" should be perceived from a fuel economy standpoint, not an emissions one. Those little mopeds might be slow but they can get ~125 mpg or more. So VERY good in that respect. But they do not burn cleanly. My ET2 is a 2-stroke and is noticeably less stinky than my P200 and my old Puch mopeds, and you can't see the exhaust any more than you would on a 4-stroke vespa. But even it has more invisible emissions than the 4-strokes. Just something to consider. It is still definitely a "live for less" way of life, but you should understand just what "2-stroke" means in regards to mother earth.

Good luck!
@nickandsusan avatar
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Ossessionato
65 Sprint, 2008 150S
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Location: MONTEREY COUNTY
 
Ossessionato
@nickandsusan avatar
65 Sprint, 2008 150S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2754
Location: MONTEREY COUNTY
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check out the local scooter shops-I'm sure some of the scooter kids can help you out with mopeds too. you live in a really cool scooter area. good luck with your purchase. mopeds are cool!

https://www.1977mopeds.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?display=contact

contact Seattle Mopeds-they can help you
1978 Vespa Bravo
1978 Vespa Bravo
A friend of ours' Puch
A friend of ours' Puch
OP
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Member
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Location: Seattle, WA
 
Member
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Thanks for mentioning the pollution deal -- OK, so not entirely green. But I am on the RIGHT track! I'd love a true "scooter" but they cost a significant amount more than said mopeds. Unless someone has a suggestion for a scooter model sub 1500. I do not want a mechanical nightmare. That being said, I DO appreciate beautiful italian design. If you're going to drive a scooter or even moped... you might as well drive the best! Of course Stellas and such are great too (afraid of finding a place to repair on of those). I'll definitely check out Seattle Moped (I'm in Seattle next weekend) and will look on Moped Army. If anyone else has any suggestions for scooters to check out and/or tips about the moped, let me know. I'd love a Vespa but obviously you have to start somewhere... I cannot expect the best. You need to work your way into a hobby!
@baumer avatar
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Hooked
Piaggio LT150
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Location: Seattle, WA
 
Hooked
@baumer avatar
Piaggio LT150
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Location: Seattle, WA
UTC quote
ScooterTeen wrote:
Thanks for mentioning the pollution deal -- OK, so not entirely green. But I am on the RIGHT track! I'd love a true "scooter" but they cost a significant amount more than said mopeds. Unless someone has a suggestion for a scooter model sub 1500. I do not want a mechanical nightmare. That being said, I DO appreciate beautiful italian design. If you're going to drive a scooter or even moped... you might as well drive the best! Of course Stellas and such are great too (afraid of finding a place to repair on of those). I'll definitely check out Seattle Moped (I'm in Seattle next weekend) and will look on Moped Army. If anyone else has any suggestions for scooters to check out and/or tips about the moped, let me know. I'd love a Vespa but obviously you have to start somewhere... I cannot expect the best. You need to work your way into a hobby!
Around here at least, those old classic mopeds tend to go for quite a bit. Since you are new and young, I think right now the best bet for you if you really want a scooter and to get into it would be to get your feet wet with a nice used, affordable 50cc scooter. Look at the Honda Ruckus and Metropolitan, especially. You can find barely used Metropolitans all the time on craigslist going between $900-$1200. The Ruckus is going to run you a little more, generally between $1200-1400 when one pops up. There are a lot of old Hondas too, like Elite 80s on there that routinely go for between $700-$1400. You can probably find a good deal on a Yamaha Vino or other 50cc on there as well. There is a vespa ET2 on there right now for $2k. If any of those options sound good, it would be a good way to ease you in and get you used to riding, etc. then in a couple of years when you are at college you will be ready to go to the really good stuff

I can't tell you anything at all about mopeds, other than talk to the moped army guys because they know their stuff and are a great crew.

Don't focus so much on the "classic Italian design" and "fashion" part of it until you get the swing of things and really figure out what is a good fit for you. Or else you run the risk of going down a really bad path that another user who shall remain nameless here went down where he dropped a ton of money on a beautiful vintage scooter he could not handle, and wound up basically ruining the bike, just for the sake of fashion. Its not worth it.
@phaetn avatar
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Addicted
'78 Super 150 Mk II ported DR177, banded clutch, ASC Big Bore
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Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
 
Addicted
@phaetn avatar
'78 Super 150 Mk II ported DR177, banded clutch, ASC Big Bore
Joined: UTC
Posts: 664
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
UTC quote
Re: Vespa Bravo
xantufrog wrote:
One thing to note about "being green" is that 2-stroke engines, especially vintage/classic ones spit out a lot of pollution, so they aren't clean to ride. Any "greenness" should be perceived from a fuel economy standpoint, not an emissions one.... My ET2 is a 2-stroke and is noticeably less stinky than my P200 and my old Puch mopeds, and you can't see the exhaust any more than you would on a 4-stroke vespa. But even it has more invisible emissions than the 4-strokes. Just something to consider. It is still definitely a "live for less" way of life, but you should understand just what "2-stroke" means in regards to mother earth.
Indeed, I somewhat struggle with this every day since I try to be environmentally conscious and, in general, try to do more with less and reduce/reuse/recycle wherever I can. It's not so much that I'm a die-hard tree-hugging environmentalist or overly frugal, I just try and reduce my conspicuous consumption and put some thought into what I buy and consider if what I already have would really do (though by no means am I a self-flagellating saint). Honestly, I'm a little aghast at how much more waste my family generates since my wife and I have had two children (and that's having used washable cloth diapers, not disposables), but that's a whole other story...

I can reconcile my driving a 2 stroke Vespa as follows:

Yes, it definitely does emit more particulates than a cleaner four stroke engine would because of the burning of oil;

that said, it uses one HELL of a lot less gas than a car (and, for that matter, two strokes are more efficient by weight and displacement than a 4 stroke but my comparison would only really work against a car), so that means not only does it consume much less gas itself than the 2.0L VW I'm getting rid of (rough estimates at probably a 1/4 to 1/5 of the fuel), but also less particulates and greenhouse gases are going into the atmosphere from the
    a) extraction and
    b) distribution of said gasoline
    (picture oil rigs, oil tankers on the high seas, big ass dirty trucks in places like the Alberta oil sands, and big diesel gasoline trucks going to your local gas station) per km driven between the Vespa and a car.
Happily, my scoot is a vintage 1978 model (remember, reuse before recycle!). That means next to no plastics -- mainly steel and rubber. There's a bit of chrome trim, but that's it (and original, not new). That's good for the environment compared to the synthetic dashboard of almost any car nowadays, plus many other plastic parts on cars and newer scoots.

Finally, I don't have a battery (the stator provides all juice) so no environmental residue from having to produce and dispose of that, either.

Can you tell this keeps me awake some nights? It's how I live with myself.... [I] protest too much, methinks (Hamlet3.2.230).

Honestly, I have no problem justifying the pollutants from a 2 stroke 150cc vintage Vespa compared to some of the massive-displacement, gas sucking, aerodynamic brick wall SUVs that I see driving around every day (not to mention the selfish "bigger/higher/heavier is safer" mentality of their drivers.) If we all played that game of safety is seeing over the car ahead with more gross axle weight being helpful in impacts then we'd all have big rigs in our driveways.

Check out this article for some food for thought on cars like the Prius. The general conclusion? It's less of a carbon footprint in the overall product life cycle and environmental impact equation to stick with an old, light, small-engined car like a 1994 Geo Metro XFi rather than the producing a brand new Prius (and that's not to mention what to do with the batteries once the cars begin going to the wreckers in large numbers).

Sorry for the rant -- I think I'm running a fever... to be avoided, like posting when drunk

Cheers,
phaetn

P.S. Oh yes, Scooterteen, to reiterate what Len said: if you're not prepared to take a safety course, you're not prepared to ride anything motorized (especially as a teenager -- no offense, it's just about driving experience and well acknowledged risk-taking behaviours since your brains aren't fully developed yet -- no kidding!). Great fuel efficiency on mopeds/scooters/motorcycles is entirely achieved through very little weight, and the consequently much smaller displacement engines required than in a car; this comes at the expense of that handy steel cage around you, a large engine block in front of you, crash bars in doors, bumpers front and back, not to mention luxuries like seat belts and airbags. Also, cars tend to see other cars much more easily than skinny bikes, and -- for the most part -- cars tend to stay upright when you skid unless you've really f*cked things up...
@nickandsusan avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
65 Sprint, 2008 150S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2754
Location: MONTEREY COUNTY
 
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@nickandsusan avatar
65 Sprint, 2008 150S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2754
Location: MONTEREY COUNTY
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Got any friends in CA who can bring this up to you? $350
http://scoot.net/classifieds/forsale.html?id=14529
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Aprilia Sportcity Cube 250ie, Stella 2T
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Posts: 3186
Location: Asheville, NC, US
 
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@crackhead avatar
Aprilia Sportcity Cube 250ie, Stella 2T
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Location: Asheville, NC, US
UTC quote
For those who are concerned with the environmental effects of 2-strokes:
use fully-synthetic oil.

It cuts down alarmingly on emmissions and is better for your engine too.

My 2-stroke is my only environmental guilty pleasure!
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