femsa - fun time !!!
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Banned
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 1186

Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:29 pm quote
On my Rally.

For the first 20 miles i ride the bike, I'm experiencing the following issues:

1. If I hit the breaks, the break light turns off completely.

2. If i hit the turn signals, they don't work, and the break light flashes off and on.



I think my battery i s no keeping charge.

The battery is right in between the high and low levels marks on the indicator.

The wires seem to be connected fine.

what to do?
Molto Verboso
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 1139
Location: Monroe Michigan
Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:34 pm quote
That doesn't sound like a battery problem..Sounds more like wiring.
Banned
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 1186

Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:36 pm quote
but once the bike has been running for a little while everything works fine.

it has to be a battery issue, somehow the battery is not holding charge, that is what sends juice to the lights.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 1139
Location: Monroe Michigan
Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:40 pm quote
dannyw wrote:
but once the bike has been running for a little while everything works fine.

it has to be a battery issue, somehow the battery is not holding charge, that is what sends juice to the lights.
That makes more sense...Is there a charging sytem on a Rally?

Edit..of course there is..it has a battery. I'm just not familiar with the charging systems in scooters. Cars with alternators, I know.
Hooked
A Rally and P
Joined: 21 Jul 2008
Posts: 298

Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:49 pm quote
Have you thought of getting rid of the battery and running 12 volts? Mine runs on 12 and the lights are always bright when the scoot's running. Perhaps you could upgrade.
Molto Verboso
Joined: 19 Mar 2008
Posts: 1139
Location: Monroe Michigan
Sat Feb 14, 2009 7:50 pm quote
latinguy wrote:
Have you thought of getting rid of the battery and running 12 volts? Mine runs on 12 and the lights are always bright when the scoot's running. Perhaps you could upgrade.
Does the Rally have a magneto?
Addicted
'60 VS5, '63 Li 150 Special, '07 PX125
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Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:32 pm quote
Re: femsa - fun time !!!
dannyw wrote:
On my Rally.
The battery is right in between the high and low levels marks on the indicator.
What indicator are you talking about here?

Also, how old is your battery? Do you have a charger or battery tender? What is the behavior if the battery is fully charged?
Banned
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 1186

Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:56 pm quote
on modern 6v batterys full of liquid whatever... there are two lines hig and low. the liquid is in between

i believe that water is distilled water.

the battery is from the summer.
Banned
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
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Sat Feb 14, 2009 8:58 pm quote
p.s. i'm staying stock ... on the femsa ...
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not-so-normal
Joined: 23 Jan 2009
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Location: Batavia
Sun Feb 15, 2009 10:09 pm quote
ChadB wrote:
That doesn't sound like a battery problem..Sounds more like wiring.
Agreed!
sounds like short circuit happened
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2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
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Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:08 pm quote
Re: femsa - fun time !!!
dannyw wrote:
On my Rally.

For the first 20 miles i ride the bike, I'm experiencing the following issues:

1. If I hit the breaks, the break light turns off completely.

2. If i hit the turn signals, they don't work, and the break light flashes off and on.
Danny, please clarify:

1. If you hit the breaks, does the brake light or the tail light go out? They are two different things, and the brake light wouldn't "turn off", as it is off to begin with before you apply the brakes.

2. Same with the turn signal issue. Are you talking about the tail light?

If it is the tail light, then you have a bad battery.

When additional load is put on the system, the tail light is dimming. It would flash "off" when the turn signal tries to flash "on" and visa versa.

When you apply the brakes, the additional load of the brake lights is dimming the tail light.

Once the battery picks up a charge, the problem is not there.

Use a new battery and see what happens.

Al
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Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:35 am quote
Re: femsa - fun time !!!
[quote="Aviator47"]
dannyw wrote:
Use a new battery and see what happens.
Yep, or just charge up the one you have w/a 6v battery tender (get the tender, not the straight charger).
Moderator
2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
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Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:43 am quote
Re: femsa - fun time !!!
[quote="hp"]
Aviator47 wrote:
dannyw wrote:
Use a new battery and see what happens.
Yep, or just charge up the one you have w/a 6v battery tender (get the tender, not the straight charger).
hp-

I would bet that if the battery requires 20 mins to pick up enough of a surface charge to allow the stator to carry the load of charging the battery and more than two bulbs, the battery is toast. Of course, keeping the battery on a tender would solve the 20 min lag time, but that's treating the symptom, not the problem.

Al
Molto Verboso
2007 GT200 1979 P200E 1980 P200E 2011 Triumph America
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Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:03 am quote
You said in another topic that your battery is smaller.
What are the ratings on your battery?
Hooked
1974 Rally 200, 2009 Yamaha C3, 2010 Honda SH150i
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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Location: san francisco
Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:13 am quote
are any of the bulbs burnt out?
Banned
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
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Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:44 am quote
it's a modern 6v battery.

the tail light AND the break light go out.

so helicopter guy from greece sounds like he know what he's talking about.

I'll order a new battery, AND get a tender.
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Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:48 am quote
dannyw wrote:
so helicopter guy from greece sounds like he know what he's talking about.
Thanks for the compliment. It's the only answer that makes sense electrically. I had a little help from my 12 years in aircraft maintenance. Lots of wires and bulbs in those beasts.

Al
Banned
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 1186

Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:52 am quote
hey thanks for all the info man.
Hooked
A Rally and P
Joined: 21 Jul 2008
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Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:03 am quote
dannyw wrote:
p.s. i'm staying stock ... on the femsa ...
BOO!
Banned
Joined: 27 Sep 2007
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Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:11 am quote
I'll ride it till' the 6v dies.

but this scooter is SOOO original. and it runs amazing.
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1962 GS160mk1, 1963 GS160mk2, 1965 SS180, 1974 Rally 200, wife's LI150
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 6971

Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:09 pm quote
You say modern battery... do you mean dry cell as opposed to wet cell?

Run a wet cell... please. It makes a lot of difference on these bikes - i know because i've tried both. Get the standard Yuasa 6v 13ah battery it's supposed to take - just be aware of the form factor - it's a tall-thin battery and some battery shops don't always have one.
nothing at all
Joined: 14 Nov 2008
Posts: 9657
Location: westla
Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:19 pm quote
dido on the wet

i ran a dry from my kids peg perego gator and it does not like the constant charge-usage thing.

i ruined a 55 dollar battery

wet all the way
Enthusiast
1975 Rally 200 (Femsatronic)
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Denver
Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:37 pm quote
keep it on a trickle charge at night. let it warm up for a couple minutes before you take it out. run a wet cell battery. if you really want to keep it femsa, i urge you to keep a spare cdi with you. note that if you still have an original femsa coil, you'll want to carry a spare cdi AND a spark plug wire. The original femsa cdi has a non removable spark plug wire.
Enthusiast
1975 Rally 200 (Femsatronic)
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 97
Location: Denver
Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:39 pm quote
also study some voodoo, as you might need to throw chicken bones into a small bowl of blood, light some incense and chant a bit to keep the Femsa system working properly.
Ossessionato
1970 Vespa Rally 180
Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 4144
Location: Denton Tx.
Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:57 pm quote
Sparks303 wrote:
also study some voodoo, as you might need to throw chicken bones into a small bowl of blood, light some incense and chant a bit to keep the Femsa system working properly.
wow funny!
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2006 PX 150 & Malossi Kitted Malaguti Yesterday (Wife's)
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Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:33 pm quote
dannyw wrote:
I'll ride it till' the 6v dies.

but this scooter is SOOO original. and it runs amazing.
Really want to ride the first 20 mins with no brake lite?

Al
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:19 pm quote
multi-meter on the battery while running... how man volts you got going back in?

may need some love in the volt regulator or stator department.

oh, and pick up the right battery.

best,
-greasy
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Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:49 pm quote
Greasy-

While it would be prudent to check the voltage to look at the stator/regulator dept, the symptoms, as Danny offers them point, at least theoretically, point to a depleted battery.

Upon starting, the battery draws a high amp load due to state of discharge. Just enough left to illuminate low amperage tail light. Add additional draw of turn signals or brake light, and you haven't enough current for that total load. 20 mins later, however, the battery is relatively topped off, reducing that element of current drain, and lights have enough juice to function. Let scoot stand over night, battery runs down, and the process repeats.

Of course, it could be an issue of the stator/regulator needing to "warm up", but that's a much lower probability than a trashed battery.

Of course, we have not determined if the battery is just old and unable to hold a charge, or if there is something draining it overnight.

I would be somewhat concerned about the impact of the 20 mins of max current drain while the battery is being charged by the engine.

If you have access to a battery charger, Danny, put the batt on that overnight and see how things behave in the AM. If all goes well, then the next night, charge the batt, disconnect the charger, disconnect one battery lead, and see if it loses charge all by itself. If it does, there's reason to consider a new, proper battery.

Al
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