Steering "notch"
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Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Tue May 19, 2009 3:44 pm quote
Scooter still not fixed. Here is today's email from shop.
Good Afternoon John,

The parts arrived and the service is underway, my apologies for not writing sooner I have been without an underwriter this morning.

One thing of note John, Piaggio wrote back to me and outlined the process they went through in determining Good Will for your parts. It seems they contacted the six dealers who ordered the suspect part (spindle bearing). In four of those cases the bikes were in accidents, the other two were for notchy bearings. One case was for an MP3 used in a delivery service with 18K on it and the bearings were not properly adjusted during the previous 6K service interval. In the other case, the bike had 2100 miles on it and was still under warranty, but the service technician threw the parts away and Piaggio did not get them back for inspection. It seems that Piaggio monitors the forums as you do John and that the TREAD act monitors vehicle manufacturers closely as well. He also went on to say that Piaggio has to provide monthly reports on all failures as a result of the TREAD act. So, because they have not seen a spike in bearing replacement for notchy steering, but want to help you out they decided to Good Will the parts. I know it doesn’t help much, but I thought you might have found their determination process of interest. I will keep you posted on your progress from our end.

Regards,

Is the steering bearing and the spindle bearing the same thing? Am I accusing Piaggio of a problem they don't have?
It's only been a month, so maybe I am upset for nothing.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37492
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Tue May 19, 2009 4:13 pm quote
Re: Update
Jagony wrote:
Scooter still not fixed. Here is today's email from shop.
Good Afternoon John,
[snip]
One case was for an MP3 used in a delivery service with 18K on it and the bearings were not properly adjusted during the previous 6K service interval. In the other case, the bike had 2100 miles on it and was still under warranty, but the service technician threw the parts away and Piaggio did not get them back for inspection. It seems that Piaggio monitors the forums as you do John and that the TREAD act monitors vehicle manufacturers closely as well. He also went on to say that Piaggio has to provide monthly reports on all failures as a result of the TREAD act. So, because they have not seen a spike in bearing replacement for notchy steering,
Oh yes they have in the UK! Just about every bike sold that does more than 6,000 miles a year has had a problem. There is no requirement to adjust steering bearings at the 6,000 mile service, that is total bollocks. Steering bearings should last 40,000 miles+. The X9 had an issue at an average of 18,000 miles from new with steering bearings - if new ones were installed *properly* they then lasted at least 40,000 more miles.

After my 'guinea-pig' efforts to sort out how they should be done on the Fuoco, mine are still great, and the last set have lasted over 13,000 miles with no hint of a problem.
Quote:
Is the steering bearing and the spindle bearing the same thing?
No idea. The first is an accurate description, the other might mean either the steering bearings on the suspension tubes or the central bearing (which is always just fine). <shrug>
Quote:
Am I accusing Piaggio of a problem they don't have?
It's only been a month, so maybe I am upset for nothing.
Oh no you are not! Do not let them off the hook.
Ossessionato
MP3 Sold
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 3080
Location: N.Y.
Tue May 19, 2009 6:24 pm quote
Wow, this notch problem definitely needs some Piaggio attention especially when it's been a constant svc. issue. Some grease is really the answer?...How amazing is that? Being a woman, it would be a great help to see some pics of the area you guys are talking about and the type/name of grease to use (lithium....?) and where to apply it. Is it a job that any one of us can do (especially we women on the forum?) I sure would like to treat mine before I end up in the same frustrating dangerous situation as Jagony. Please can someone take some pics of the area(s) to be greased before more of us are in the same boat (as they say)?
Enthusiast
MP3 250
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 88
Location: Vancouver
Thu May 21, 2009 7:22 am quote
My bike developed this problem last year. I won't go into the whole story, but my local dealer (Vespa Vancouver) denied warranty coverage (it had been somewhat over a year since purchase), then when I suggested that they fix the bike at my expense and I would seek my remedies afterward (my province has a statutory warranty that goods sold must be reasonably fit for their intended use), they refused to work on my bike altogether, ever.

The bike was by then dangerously wobbly; I parked it, retained legal counsel and prepared a lawsuit.

At that point, the matter came to the attention of Piaggio Canada, and the CEO Ephram Chaplick, contacted me personally, had the bike shipped 2000 miles to Toronto, and performed $1600 of front end repairs for free (by this time both the main and parallelogram bearings needed replacing). It's now on its way back but has been off the road for a number of months. My only beef was they declined to cover the replacement of the tires, though they acknowledged that their uneven wear was a result of the bearing problem. Still, a satisfactory outcome in the end.

Thank heavens Vancouver now has a second dealer, Metro Vancouver, because my experience with Vespa Vancouver (to whom I had been a loyal customer since being the first MP3 customer in the city in March 07) was just abysmal. In contrast, Lorenzo and Ali at Metro have been amazingly great, as were Ephram and Stu at Piaggio Canada.
Molto Verboso
MP3 250
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
Posts: 1135
Location: San Diego
Thu May 21, 2009 11:35 am quote
What I do that works..I spray the bearings regulary and the steering bearing I use wheel bearing grease so it will last longer..I just checked the upper right side lock nut on the bearing and it was finger loose again. I could tell because turning was getting bad again..Tightened it up again and greased the bearings and is fine and dandy again. Also the spray grease works great on my foot pegs and center stand. When you get the tilt lock cable adjusted make sure to have them check all the bearing locking nuts.. Hoping any grease will do but I just go with the Berryman cause I always have used their product..Works 4 me..

Picture 451.jpg

Picture 452.jpg

Picture 453.jpg

Picture 458.jpg

Molto Verboso
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 1032

Thu May 21, 2009 2:09 pm quote
A job most dealers in the UK have done at least once... but like JimC states, now its known, we adjust at PDI and now never have the problem with our bikes, so now only see it with ones supplied from other dealers in the area..






Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37492
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu May 21, 2009 2:10 pm quote
The top bearings (that UFO showed) are only a problem if the lower ring has been badly adjusted. The bottom bearings can be a problem anytime if you hit a really sharp deep pothole at the 'wrong speed' - but this is minimised by dropping the steering tube and greasing them properly with a decent grease designed for the job and adjusting the locking rings properly. I don't think a lithium grease is the right one for the bearings themselves. A lithium spray grease is however a good idea to spray over the outside when all done up to stop road-shit getting into the bearings.
Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Thu May 21, 2009 3:13 pm quote
Most recent email from shop
It just keeps getting worse. Here is the latest.

Good Morning John,

Well this is rather weird. The tapered roller bearings, which my Piaggio Rep assured me would not be the problem, seem to be the culprit! Since Piaggio is picking up the parts on this one, I am ordering the entire front end dampening unit John. That way we are assured to have an entire new front end. Basically, the roller bearings feel fine, but the tapered bearing race shows sign of wearing. Haven’t found any “notches” in any of the races per-se, but the marks on the races I mentioned were definitely suspect. Now, I don’t want you to get upset, but by replacing the whole front end dampening units I will need to order them on an emergency order basis with Piaggio. So, if they are in stock, they should arrive within 24 hours. I will keep you posted, but if we just replace the set of bearings I have for you, and get you back on the road I feel they would eventually compromise the other set of bearings which Piaggio claimed were infallible. So, can you give me an extra 24 hours for a whole new front end? I think this should get you back on the road with more peace of mind this way. As usual I will update you with any new findings.

Regards,
Addicted
MP3-250 Tiger 1050 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 862
Location: Central Coast, California
Thu May 21, 2009 3:30 pm quote
Re: Most recent email from shop
Jagony wrote:
It just keeps getting worse. Here is the latest.

Good Morning John,

Well this is rather weird. The tapered roller bearings, which my Piaggio Rep assured me would not be the problem, seem to be the culprit! Since Piaggio is picking up the parts on this one, I am ordering the entire front end dampening unit John. That way we are assured to have an entire new front end. Basically, the roller bearings feel fine, but the tapered bearing race shows sign of wearing. Haven’t found any “notches” in any of the races per-se, but the marks on the races I mentioned were definitely suspect. Now, I don’t want you to get upset, but by replacing the whole front end dampening units I will need to order them on an emergency order basis with Piaggio. So, if they are in stock, they should arrive within 24 hours. I will keep you posted, but if we just replace the set of bearings I have for you, and get you back on the road I feel they would eventually compromise the other set of bearings which Piaggio claimed were infallible. So, can you give me an extra 24 hours for a whole new front end? I think this should get you back on the road with more peace of mind this way. As usual I will update you with any new findings.

Regards,
Heh that sounds better rather than worse, new parts is a good thing and your dealer sounds like he is taking care of you. You still have the loaner?
Addicted
MP3-250 Tiger 1050 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 862
Location: Central Coast, California
Thu May 21, 2009 3:45 pm quote
Ok so I decided to take a look and see what jimc was talking about.


An overview of what I took off to get to the upper bearings, the lower one can be reached without removing anything.




Here is a look at the lower bearing, it is right below the black dog bone looking thing with 4 silver hex head bolts, you can see I've already smeared some grease on the bearing.



Close up look at the lower bearing



Here is a look at the upper bearing




And a closer look at the locking rings for the bearings



When jimc talks about "drifting" the locking rings, this is what it looks like (I'm using a screwdriver tip to illustrate here, you would want to use something like a chisel if you were really doing this part).




So jim what you are saying is that I can loosen up both the locking rings while leaving the hydraulic hoses unmolested and the steering tube will drop a bit and allow access to the lower bearing for greasing? You mentioned removing the steering arm as well, any hints on where to disconnect it?
Addicted
MP3-250 Tiger 1050 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 862
Location: Central Coast, California
Thu May 21, 2009 3:50 pm quote
I did notice a reduction in notchieness after applying grease to all the bearings. The bearing just under the handlebars got some grease as well and that helped a lot (I'll take pictures soon hopefully) with the notch. I can still feel it but the bike is much more road worthy now.
Molto Verboso
MP3 250
Joined: 07 Jun 2007
Posts: 1135
Location: San Diego
Thu May 21, 2009 3:53 pm quote
Zinfan from this picture you have 2 locking nuts..I only saw one one mine..Maybe I have 2 much grease on it to see both..I will look again because I believe that locking nut is the culprit..When I re tighten it the front end works like new. But if I tighten it 2 much the front end is very hard to steer..
Addicted
MP3-250 Tiger 1050 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 862
Location: Central Coast, California
Thu May 21, 2009 4:35 pm quote
ufo wrote:
Zinfan from this picture you have 2 locking nuts..I only saw one one mine..Maybe I have 2 much grease on it to see both..I will look again because I believe that locking nut is the culprit..When I re tighten it the front end works like new. But if I tighten it 2 much the front end is very hard to steer..
My locking rings (the top ones) felt tight so I didn't adjust anything other than put grease on them, next time I plan on trying to get the rings loose and that should drop the shaft enough to get a good lock at the lower bearing and access to really grease it up.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37492
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu May 21, 2009 5:01 pm quote
Yes and no (as answers to different posts, but bear me out).

There are three sets of steering bearings. The centre ones are never a problem, if they arrive in a 'kit' don't bother to replace them.

The lower tapered roller bearings on each of the *two* suspension legs are the ones that go. And yes, they can be replaced quite quickly by an engineer (I won't use the term 'mechanic' here) who has a bit of suss and has done at least two or three before, so all done on the bike lift as shown above.

I would hazard that with proper PDI (and horrendous pot-holes avoided) the bearings should last 30,000 miles+. Get it wrong, or do it as per manual, lucky to get 300 miles. From Factory seems to vary, possibly a choice between Luigi and Pietro as the assembly-person, or maybe the owner's local conditions and style of riding.

Just <shrug>, get it sorted, make sure your dealer is plugged into either some inner sanctum of 'Tech Tips' or at least reads a forum or two - this is a KNOWN problem, as it was on the X9.
Any dealer who claims no knowledge is incompetent on several levels.
Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Thu May 21, 2009 5:03 pm quote
Re: Most recent email from shop
[/quote]

Heh that sounds better rather than worse, new parts is a good thing and your dealer sounds like he is taking care of you. You still have the loaner?[/quote]

Wouldn't it have made more sense to take the thing apart, find the actual problem, then order the needed parts? Now I have to wait longer for the correct parts. Who knows how long that will take.
I gave the loaner back after the Pittsburgh trip. I didn't want to worry about it. I have a Chinese dispos-a-scoot to commute on so it's not that I'm not riding at all, it's just not an MP3.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37492
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu May 21, 2009 5:11 pm quote
The tapered roller bearings (the only ones to have a real problem) are industry standard bearings, and can be purchased very cheaply. I don't kpow the dimensions (or 'numbers') off-hand right now but very tough replacements can be bought off the shelf at almost any bearing dealer, they are a very common size.
Ossessionato
MP3 Sold
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 3080
Location: N.Y.
Sat May 23, 2009 2:09 pm quote
OMGosh this all looks and sounds very intimidating! I'm soooo glad I asked for pics...yikes! Ladies wha cha think about tackling this job?? Maybe we should get together to figure this one out...maybe over a cup of/glass of/jigger of ............something? Maybe then the parts will look more user friendly???
Really..I've got to print this out. The grease to be used is lithium spray (correct?) and you must remove fenders, etc (that's the yikes part of job) then......well....guess I'll just look back at pics and reread over and over again
Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Sat May 23, 2009 6:05 pm quote
Taking the body off is easy, but time consuming. I too will be printing out the how to pictures for future reference. I will do anything to avoid putting the scooter back in the shop for this same problem.

I received an email from the shop today telling me that the scooter should be ready by the middle of next week, and that the thread from Craig Jones that I had sent them for reference was forwarded to Piaggio. This pissed them off for some reason and a Piaggio rep was going to contact me personally to talk about it. This of course never happened, and I thought it sounded like a threat to me.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37492
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sun May 24, 2009 12:23 am quote
ufo wrote:
Zinfan from this picture you have 2 locking nuts..I only saw one one mine..Maybe I have 2 much grease on it to see both..I will look again because I believe that locking nut is the culprit..When I re tighten it the front end works like new. But if I tighten it 2 much the front end is very hard to steer..
The lower locking ring is under the non-rotating washer that is under the upper ring.
Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Sat May 30, 2009 1:51 pm quote
The latest
After a month and a half in the shop and still no scooter I received this email today. It arrived at 2:59 P.M., They close at 3:00 P.M.

Good Afternoon John,

I’m sure your wife has kept you updated, but she wanted me to write you as well, so here I am. Ok, as you know the front end is assembled and we were setting the electronic wheel lock to 12 degrees with the Piaggio Diagnostic tool called Digitech, when the unit would not reset the wheel lock device. I called the Piaggio Rep and he suggested we send the unit out to their Technical Department to make sure the Digitech was functioning and up to date. I shipped it out and we just got it back, so I had the Tech hook it up and it seems to be doing the same thing. I have called the Technical Rep who programmed the unit, but his voicemail box is full. So I sent an email right away with a high priority label on it and have not heard back from him yet. I assume the offices may be closed on Saturday and will check my email Tuesday first thing when we open. I also asked him for a time to speak with him directly in the email, since their offices are in California and there is a 3hour time difference.

Alas, this is where we stand at the moment and I was so hoping to have it ridden by now! I will let you know by email what the Technical Rep says as soon as we talk to him Tuesday. Unfortunately, this is not helping you I know, but now we are grounded by a technical device which communicates to the bike and is not doing so! Consequently, we are equally frustrated this time and I will keep you posted as soon as I learn more John.

Another perfect riding weather weekend without the MP3.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37492
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sat May 30, 2009 2:48 pm quote
Clueless.
Ossessionato
MP3 Sold
Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 3080
Location: N.Y.
Sat May 30, 2009 2:49 pm quote
Holy "Crap!"

Cats It Yet.gif
I think I got it now....I think I got it now....I think.....ur, nothing

Molto Verboso
'95 Yamaha Riva 125- '05 Piaggio BV200-'05 Honda Reflex-'08 Honda Metropolitan
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 1647
Location: Ohio
Sat May 30, 2009 3:10 pm quote
Re: The latest
Jagony wrote:
After a month and a half in the shop and still no scooter I received this email today. It arrived at 2:59 P.M., They close at 3:00 P.M.

Good Afternoon John,

I’m sure your wife has kept you updated, but she wanted me to write you as well, so here I am. Ok, as you know the front end is assembled and we were setting the electronic wheel lock to 12 degrees with the Piaggio Diagnostic tool called Digitech, when the unit would not reset the wheel lock device. I called the Piaggio Rep and he suggested we send the unit out to their Technical Department to make sure the Digitech was functioning and up to date. I shipped it out and we just got it back, so I had the Tech hook it up and it seems to be doing the same thing. I have called the Technical Rep who programmed the unit, but his voicemail box is full. So I sent an email right away with a high priority label on it and have not heard back from him yet. I assume the offices may be closed on Saturday and will check my email Tuesday first thing when we open. I also asked him for a time to speak with him directly in the email, since their offices are in California and there is a 3hour time difference.

Alas, this is where we stand at the moment and I was so hoping to have it ridden by now! I will let you know by email what the Technical Rep says as soon as we talk to him Tuesday. Unfortunately, this is not helping you I know, but now we are grounded by a technical device which communicates to the bike and is not doing so! Consequently, we are equally frustrated this time and I will keep you posted as soon as I learn more John.

Another perfect riding weather weekend without the MP3.
I'm sorry to hear that these guys can't get this done. I know it's quite a distance for you but we have two very good dealers in the Cleveland area. Vespa of Cleveland on Miles Road is top shelf. When the owner had a question about the bearings on my scoot he cc'd me with the correspondence he had with the Piaggio rep so I knew exactly what was going on. Piaggio responded in a day-Sunday no less!!! In the future it may be worth it to trailer that bad boy up here.

Good luck!
Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Sat May 30, 2009 3:20 pm quote
Re: The latest
[
I'm sorry to hear that these guys can't get this done. I know it's quite a distance for you but we have two very good dealers in the Cleveland area. Vespa of Cleveland on Miles Road is top shelf. When the owner had a question about the bearings on my scoot he cc'd me with the correspondence he had with the Piaggio rep so I knew exactly what was going on. Piaggio responded in a day-Sunday no less!!! In the future it may be worth it to trailer that bad boy up here.

Good luck![/quote]

Heck, in less than a month and a half I could probably have taken it apart and mailed it to Cleveland piece by piece, had it fixed, reassembled, and shipped back.
I was told a week ago that a Piaggio rep was going to contact me personally to discuss the problem. It never happened. [/quote]
Molto Verboso
'95 Yamaha Riva 125- '05 Piaggio BV200-'05 Honda Reflex-'08 Honda Metropolitan
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 1647
Location: Ohio
Sat May 30, 2009 3:28 pm quote
You have a great attitude!!! I wouldn't be able to joke around at this point. Hopefully you'll be on the road next week. Still tons of great riding weather ahead.

Bob
Enthusiast
ADDICT/PUSHER
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 64
Location: ClevelandMoto
Sun May 31, 2009 12:08 am quote
John, I'm really sorry to see the trouble you've been having with your dealer and technical support. We have had 2 of our Mp3's develop the "index steering" as I call it, and have used advice from this forum to help in both situations.

My 500 was bought after it was in an accident and we'd mistakenly thought the behavior was crash related until reading more about the issue on this forum. It went awful at approximately 2500 miles and a customers 250 went bad at around 5000. Once I saw what piaggio was charging for the bearings I opted to get them from my local Napa, they were $26 each. Upon inspection both sets of these were definitely overtightened, there wasn't a drop of grease anywhere on my 500. We've made it a habit now to inspect and correct EVERY mp3 that comes in for service. Fortunately, we don't have too many on the road up here. There definitely is a higher commitment to maintenance and support required on these scooters.

I don't get on this forum much, we've been crazy busy, but we have a customer who brings his GTS up from COL for service and he called attention to your situation. You've gotta stay on top of this and be sure to open a line of communication with your customer care rep at Piaggio USA to make sure you're both aware of what is happening with your scoot.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Sun May 31, 2009 7:08 am quote
Just a question on hand tightening/backing off the lower ring:

after dropping the steering just enough so you can get to the bearing, do I need to put the wheels back on the ground to get the rod back up into place and then hand tighten the ring? Or do you just use your hand to push the rod back up into place to tighten? I think I am going to take a day to grease and reset mine so I want to make sure I have all of my ducks in a row.

I took my bike in the other day to the dealer because my upper ring was loose. I was still a little uneducated about this issue and he must be as well. He ended up tightening the lower one before tightening up the top ring. Now I am really nervous about having a problem down the road after re-reading this thread about over tightend bearings. I just need to re-do it to make it right.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37492
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Sun May 31, 2009 8:33 am quote
Yes, lower the bike onto the wheels to ensure the lower bearing is fully seated. Nip up the lower ring, back-off, tighten up the upper one. Now you can raise the wheels off the ground again to check for any radial play in the steering tube.
Hooked
MP3 500
Joined: 01 Jun 2007
Posts: 481
Location: Rexburg Idaho
Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:20 pm quote
I could never seem to get the rod to drop low enough to get some grease into the lower bearing. Tilt lock on or off? Or does it even matter? I had mine on. The washer in the middle of the lower ring and upper ring didn't seem to allow anything to move as well, since it also acts as a support for the hydrolics on top. I would say, i'd take it in to have it done, but the mechanic overtightened my lower ring and I was having a difficult time with steering. I at least backed it off today and I would have to say I can steer so much better now. I've read all posts about this issue and the technique to fix it. I'm sorry to say, I just don't understand some of it. (minuet stuff that keeps me from completing this job. Oh, and the 500 panels come off so so easy.
Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:59 pm quote
Update
Shop called Wednesday, said the alignment tool (?) was working and they were putting the scooter back together. It was raining so they couldn't a test ride. They said they would test it Thursday and call me when it was ready. I took the afternoon off of work in anticipation of picking it up. They also said that, by the way, we noticed the front brake pads were shot so we are going to replace them at no charge.
They finally called today at 3:00 p.m.. They said they bike was ready except they were still waiting for the brake shoes to come in. I had the option of getting the bike and picking up brake shoes later, or leaving the scooter until the shoes came in so they could install them, but there wasn't much lining and if I rode it that way I was in danger of damaging the rotors.
I politely pointed out that the reason the scooter was taken to them a month and a half ago was for the 6,000 mile service, and that checking brake pad wear is one of the first items on the list. I asked what else they had failed to do that I should know about, or if they had even done any service. I then told them that I had better have a scooter to ride this weekend or I was getting a lawyer. I gottta be able to sue them for some thing don't you think.
They were very apologetic and swore they would have every thing done by tomorrow evening We shall see.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37492
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:07 pm quote
A scooter shop that doesn't carry brake pads as standard stock. Ouchy.

OK, there could have been a run on them , but with next-day delivery etc...

I am very suspect of places that don't keep most standard spares on the shelf. The capital cost isn't huge, and the stock rotates pretty quickly. Customer satisfaction is maximised - and that's the most precious thing any workshop can gain and hope to retain.
Veni, Vidi, Posti
. . 2008 Blue MP3 400. . di Peluria Orso .... 1993 Kawasaki Vulcan 500 ....... 2013 Honda NC700XD; 2017 Versys X300
Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 6152
Location: Milledgeville, GA
Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:58 am quote
jimc wrote:
A scooter shop that doesn't carry brake pads as standard stock. Ouchy.

OK, there could have been a run on them , but with next-day delivery etc...

I am very suspect of places that don't keep most standard spares on the shelf. The capital cost isn't huge, and the stock rotates pretty quickly. Customer satisfaction is maximised - and that's the most precious thing any workshop can gain and hope to retain.
The MP3 is still relatively new in the states and dealers are learning. Lack of brake pads may be understandable. I have put more miles on my MP3 than any other customer at my dealer. This means that several times, including front brake pads, I have been the first to need them and they had to be ordered. In each case the dealer has added the item to normal stock. They sell 7 brands of scooters and two of motorcycles and identifying every item to stock can be a challenge. Cash tied up in inventory is also a major expense. The annual cost of inventory on the shelf is 20% of the inventory value. This means it costs a business $2,000 a year to keep $10,000 in inventory on the shelf. Just with Vespa and Piaggio scooters how many different brake pads have to be stocked?

I would wonder about front pads only lasgting 6,000 miles. Mine were changed at 18,000 and were not that bad.
Addicted
MP3-250 Tiger 1050 Moto Guzzi V7 Stone
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 862
Location: Central Coast, California
Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:13 pm quote
Fuzzy wrote:
jimc wrote:
A scooter shop that doesn't carry brake pads as standard stock. Ouchy.

OK, there could have been a run on them , but with next-day delivery etc...

I am very suspect of places that don't keep most standard spares on the shelf. The capital cost isn't huge, and the stock rotates pretty quickly. Customer satisfaction is maximised - and that's the most precious thing any workshop can gain and hope to retain.
The MP3 is still relatively new in the states and dealers are learning. Lack of brake pads may be understandable. I have put more miles on my MP3 than any other customer at my dealer. This means that several times, including front brake pads, I have been the first to need them and they had to be ordered. In each case the dealer has added the item to normal stock. They sell 7 brands of scooters and two of motorcycles and identifying every item to stock can be a challenge. Cash tied up in inventory is also a major expense. The annual cost of inventory on the shelf is 20% of the inventory value. This means it costs a business $2,000 a year to keep $10,000 in inventory on the shelf. Just with Vespa and Piaggio scooters how many different brake pads have to be stocked?

I would wonder about front pads only lasgting 6,000 miles. Mine were changed at 18,000 and were not that bad.
The 250 front pads are the same ones that the ET-4 uses if I recall that correctly, my local scooter wrench found a set for me in his bin of parts.
Molto Verboso
'95 Yamaha Riva 125- '05 Piaggio BV200-'05 Honda Reflex-'08 Honda Metropolitan
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 1647
Location: Ohio
Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:51 pm quote
Did you get it back yet?
Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:59 pm quote
Final damage
I picked up the scooter from the shop this evening.

6k service labor 3 hours @ $95.00 = $285
oil filter 1 @ $6.39
5W40 syn oil 1@ $12.25
Rollers 6 @ $2.70 = $16.20
Install front tyres labor 1 hour @ $ 79.00 (Yes they spelled it tyres)
Pilot Sport 120/70-12 2@ $44.25 = $88.50 Half of total labor charged because customer mis-informed on tires solving the front end problem.
Installed front brake pads. Parts and labor comped by service department.
Installed new variator drive belt. Parts and labor comped by service department.
Installed:
link suspension MP3 Qty. 1
Upper bearing Qty. 1
buffer Qty. 1
gasket ring Qty. 10
steering b. ball tracks MP3 Qty. 1
Piaggio warrantied all parts for customer good will.
Labor for front end repair 9.5 hrs. @ $ 95.00 hr. = $887.66 ?

Total parts and labor = $ 1494.50
But it only took them a month and a half to fix.
I don't know if I should be laughing or crying.
I told them that I hoped they took notes so that the next MP3 that came through would be a little easier.

Thank goodness this thread is at an end. I hope it will be of some help to others.
If some one wants the name of this dealer P.M. me. I don't want this to be a bashing thread, just an informative one.

P.S. When riding home I noticed three things. No gas WTF and my Crampbuster is gone. Why would they remove the throttle control? A slight vibration at about 70 mph that wasn't there before the service. Could be the new tires.

Last edited by Jagony on Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:38 am; edited 1 time in total
Molto Verboso
'95 Yamaha Riva 125- '05 Piaggio BV200-'05 Honda Reflex-'08 Honda Metropolitan
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
Posts: 1647
Location: Ohio
Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:05 pm quote
Re: Final damage
Jagony wrote:
I picked up the scooter from the shop this evening.

But it only took them a month and a half to fix.
I don't know if I should be laughing or crying.
I told them that I hoped they took notes so that the next MP3 that came through would be a little easier.
At least you have your scoot back! AFTER a nice ride to reacquaint yourself with the scoot, kick back with a nice beverage and all will be well.
Hooked
Honda CTX700N
Joined: 04 Sep 2008
Posts: 332
Location: New York
Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:24 pm quote
Re: Final damage
Jagony wrote:
Total parts and labor = $ 1494.50
Wow! Now that is an ankle grabber...
Hooked
2007 Vespa GTS 250
Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 258
Location: near Great Yarmouth, Norfolk, UK
Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:13 am quote
Bought my 250 brand new last August. For the past few weeks I could feel the notch when steering and something didn't feel quite right.

Took it back to the dealers yesterday and Cheeky Thomas (who is on this forum) confirmed my suspicions - head bearings!

My current mileage? 4150.
Hooked
2008 MP3 400
Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 369
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:31 am quote
Maybe we should start documenting all of these cases somewhere on this forum. It may be handy in showing Piaggio that they actually do have a problem with the bearings, and be a help to dealers that haven't seen the problem.
My MP3 was the first one my dealer had done any repair work to, and they had no idea what they were doing. It is no fun being a training bike for mechanics.
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 37492
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:36 pm quote
Jagony wrote:
It is no fun being a training bike for mechanics.
Late post to this thread (sorry, been riding!) but any mechanic who *has not been trained by Piaggio* or *has not tuned into the well-googled topics* when confronted with a 'new problem' should be re-educated.

Demand to see their 'paper medal' from Piaggio before you allow them to work on your pride and joy...
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